The US Economy Continues Its Collapse

[SteadyMercury]

Okay, I'm sure all you leftist “experts” will give us chart after chart to try to put the lie to this. But, the fact is – how many empty store fronts do we see every where we turn.

So let me get this straight... your prefer your personal unquantifiable perception of how many empty store fronts are in your neighborhood to actual economic data? Your own article says retail says are up 2.4% year over year, yet you're going to say the economy is in meltdown because you see empty stores?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess whatever you do in life doesn't require much in the way of critical thinking skills.

 

[paravani]

American Malls In Meltdown

The Economic Recovery Is Complete & Utter Fraud

Obozo stands at podia and brags about his record of bringing the USA economy back from the brink. The brink of what – an honest recovery?


The year to date numbers are even worse than the year over year numbers. With consumer spending accounting for 70% of our GDP and real inflation running north of 5%, it’s pretty clear most Americans are experiencing a recession, despite the propaganda data circulated by the government and Fed.

Okay, I'm sure all you leftist “experts” will give us chart after chart to try to put the lie to this. But, the fact is – how many empty store fronts do we see every where we turn. How many construction projects are going to ruin? How easy is it for YOU to pay your bills, put clothes on the backs of your family, and put food in the fridge?

Read more @ American Malls In Meltdown - The Economic Recovery Is Complete Utter Fraud Zero Hedge

You're right, the economy IS in meltdown. The vast majority of jobs that have been added to the economy are low-wage, part-time jobs, many of which are being taken by people who were already fully employed but still can't make ends meet. I know one family where the parents are working three jobs and still living in public housing, because minimum wage does not pay enough for them to afford to own their own home.

You're also right, our economy IS losing jobs. Automation is making it possible to produce more with fewer workers. And fewer workers means fewer jobs...

Supply and demand decrees that fewer jobs sought by more unemployed people will result in lower wages... which means that more workers will have to take second and even third jobs to keep their families fed and sheltered...

You're right, many of us have been unemployed for so long that the unemployment figures haven't included us for over a decade.

You're right about what's happening, but it's been happening since long before Obama's term in office. However, the progression has become inescapably obvious -- jobs are disappearing, and they are not being replaced. And as jobs disappear or are replaced by lower-paying jobs, demand for goods and resources begins to lag, resulting in lower prices for oil, steel, gold, silver, luxury goods, new clothing.... etc. and so on.

You're right about the abandoned storefronts, the shopping districts that used to provide a thriving middle class with goods and entertainment. Malls are closing across the country, too. It's not so much that they're being replaced by online shopping (although yes, people do shop online for things that they know they need) -- but people used to shop in the mall for entertainment, just to get out of the house and wander among people.

No more. It was the middle class who used to shop in malls, the middle class who used to go out on Friday nights for dinner, the middle class who used to buy new clothes and own their own homes and buy flowers for the flowerpots and steaks for the grill. The middle class lived in small towns and suburbs, mowed their lawns and kept up with the Joneses.

The middle class is vanishing, as more and more good-paying, union-membership factory jobs are being replaced by automation. Every year, the number of robots purchased by American manufacturers exceeds the year before.

The result is that last year, American productivity was at its highest level ever... while jobs are stagnant, and wages are down.

Watch:

 

[longknife]

Okay, I'm sure all you leftist “experts” will give us chart after chart to try to put the lie to this. But, the fact is – how many empty store fronts do we see every where we turn.

So let me get this straight... your prefer your personal unquantifiable perception of how many empty store fronts are in your neighborhood to actual economic data? Your own article says retail says are up 2.4% year over year, yet you're going to say the economy is in meltdown because you see empty stores?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess whatever you do in life doesn't require much in the way of critical thinking skills.

Compared to retail sales increasing 2.4% per year, how much does the population increase every year?

Each year there are approximately 4 million births in the U.S. and 2.4 million deaths. The growth due to natural increase (total births minus deaths) is therefore 1.6 million per year. Yet according to the Census Bureau's decennial census, U.S. population is growing by approximately 3.3 million per year.

Without getting all techie and adding all the illegals crossing the border, it would make sense to me there would by far less vacant store fronts and empty or halted construction sites.

Of course, with a close-minded pro-Obama individual like you, nothing will ever be said to change your mind.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Compared to retail sales increasing 2.4% per year, how much does the population increase every year?

Each year there are approximately 4 million births in the U.S. and 2.4 million deaths. The growth due to natural increase (total births minus deaths) is therefore 1.6 million per year. Yet according to the Census Bureau's decennial census, U.S. population is growing by approximately 3.3 million per year.

The US has a population of about 320 million people, so if US population was growing by 3.3 million per year like your source claims it would be about one percent.

Without getting all techie and adding all the illegals crossing the border, it would make sense to me there would by far less vacant store fronts and empty or halted construction sites.

You missed the point. Your personal anecdotal experience of how many vacant store fronts you see around you is an absolutely worthless barometer to make macro-level claims that you're supporting about the economy collapsing. You'd have to be beyond stupid to think this way.

Of course, with a close-minded pro-Obama individual like you, nothing will ever be said to change your mind.

I've taken no political stance in this thread, but YOU just did. Talk about closed-minded right?

 

[Care4all]

The highly exalted "Job Creators" need to bite the bullet and hire "overpaid American workers" to get this economy going again.

All un and under-employed should go heavily discount their labor to increase dollar churn and create mass efficiency to compete in a global market.

For the good of the country, of course.

(Like they give a shit about the good of the country.)

They already have taken a major hit, for 35 years in a row....and you want them to give up even more, for the good of the wealthiest.....um, I mean for the good of the Country???

 

[Care4all]

Okay, I'm sure all you leftist “experts” will give us chart after chart to try to put the lie to this. But, the fact is – how many empty store fronts do we see every where we turn.

So let me get this straight... your prefer your personal unquantifiable perception of how many empty store fronts are in your neighborhood to actual economic data? Your own article says retail says are up 2.4% year over year, yet you're going to say the economy is in meltdown because you see empty stores?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess whatever you do in life doesn't require much in the way of critical thinking skills.

Compared to retail sales increasing 2.4% per year, how much does the population increase every year?

Each year there are approximately 4 million births in the U.S. and 2.4 million deaths. The growth due to natural increase (total births minus deaths) is therefore 1.6 million per year. Yet according to the Census Bureau's decennial census, U.S. population is growing by approximately 3.3 million per year.

Without getting all techie and adding all the illegals crossing the border, it would make sense to me there would by far less vacant store fronts and empty or halted construction sites.

Of course, with a close-minded pro-Obama individual like you, nothing will ever be said to change your mind.

Seriously?

The movement from smaller storefronts to MEGA dept stores like Wal-Mart has been going on for a while now.... and internet buying is HUGE, this eliminates sales people and storefronts.

 

[Old Rocks]

This is horrifying;

Today there are 4,000,000 fewer jobs for Americans aged 25 to 54 than in December 2007. From 2009 to 2013, Americans in this age group were down 6,000,000 jobs. Those years of alleged economic recovery apparently bypassed Americans of prime working age.

I don’t think it’s political, I think it’s a structural shift in the world economy that our leaders cannot control.

There are a whole lot fewer americans aged 25 to 54 than there used to be. A lot of us are past 70 and still working. Because people in that age group have not taken the steps to get the skills that industry needs. There are about 5,000,000 unfilled jobs out there for skilled people. And there will be one more when I finally retire.

 

[Old Rocks]

People get it through your heads. If it is a simple job that an unskilled and untrained laborer can do, then a machine will do it better, faster, and cheaper. I know, I build and maintain such machinery. We need to educate our people. When you finish high school, you are not done. You need at least 2 years of tech school. Better four, with a fair amount of training on computers.

And we need to make such training available for the same cost as high school. Free. For the good of the businesses. Right now, unless you have a company sponsoring you, you cannot afford the education for a technical job on minimum entry level wage, and still eat and have a roof over your head. Time to make Community College free for all that maintain their GPA.

 

[longknife]

People get it through your heads. If it is a simple job that an unskilled and untrained laborer can do, then a machine will do it better, faster, and cheaper. I know, I build and maintain such machinery. We need to educate our people. When you finish high school, you are not done. You need at least 2 years of tech school. Better four, with a fair amount of training on computers.

And we need to make such training available for the same cost as high school. Free. For the good of the businesses. Right now, unless you have a company sponsoring you, you cannot afford the education for a technical job on minimum entry level wage, and still eat and have a roof over your head. Time to make Community College free for all that maintain their GPA.

Thank you for a well thought out post.

We already see at retail check out areas more and more scanners where shoppers scan their own purchases and pay right there.

It won't be long before we see fast food chains where you order and pay at a kiosk and your order is delivered to you by a machine.

So, what we are going to need is more people to create/design such machines, build them, and even maintain them. What good will a PhD in Cultural Ethnicity do then?

We will always need trades people and that training should be provided in school and NOT by unions.

 

[warf]

We will always need trades people and that training should be provided in school and NOT by unions.

Fat chance of schools teaching trades.

Since our manufacturing has been abandoned there isn't enough need for tradesmen so the oligarchs won't spend tax money on that kind of education.

And without manufacturing there aren't jobs for the vast majority of future citizens or a way to work out of this economic downturn. A consumer spending based economy is a bad and unsustainable economy. For the majority. The rich probably like it.

 

[paravani]

Fat chance of schools teaching trades.

Since our manufacturing has been abandoned there isn't enough need for tradesmen so the oligarchs won't spend tax money on that kind of education.

And without manufacturing there aren't jobs for the vast majority of future citizens or a way to work out of this economic downturn. A consumer spending based economy is a bad and unsustainable economy. For the majority. The rich probably like it.

The trade being taught in some schools now is programming. Kids are learning to "script" at earlier ages, so that by the time they're in high school they know how to build a web page and write basic applications and games. Many community colleges also offer courses not only in programming languages, but also in programming hardware interfaces like Raspberry Pi.

It is a useful trade, but not by any means the only one that will be needed in the coming Robotic Age.

-- Paravani

 

[SteadyMercury]

Since our manufacturing has been abandoned there isn't enough need for tradesmen.

What? Skilled trades is exactly where the biggest need is, the United States has a well documented shortage of skilled trades labor.

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

Skilled Trades Shortage Among U.S. Employers

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Since our manufacturing has been abandoned there isn't enough need for tradesmen.

What? Skilled trades is exactly where the biggest need is, the United States has a well documented shortage of skilled trades labor.

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

Skilled Trades Shortage Among U.S. Employers

there is no serious shortage of skilled trades since corporations train what they need rather than go bankrupt, obviously. IBM for example grew to be the biggest and most profitable corporation in the world before schools even knew there was a need for computer types.

 

[warf]

What? Skilled trades is exactly where the biggest need is, the United States has a well documented shortage of skilled trades labor.

When I say our manufacturing has been abandoned I'm not talking about software engineers, a business that employs relatively few compared to the millions of jobs exported along with our smokestack industry.

I'm talking about jobs for the masses of blue color workers who are now flipping burgers. Jobs that didn't require college. Jobs that provided families with enough income to live decently.

There are other skilled jobs other than hi-tech. But we sent them away and lowered the living standard of most Americans.

 

[longknife]

Not only did we sent them overseas but we've dumbed down our kids so much they can't read or write to fill the demand for the many jobs going unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And, in order to get qualified applicants, they going overseas and bringing them here on work visas.

 

[paravani]

Not only did we sent them overseas but we've dumbed down our kids so much they can't read or write to fill the demand for the many jobs going unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And, in order to get qualified applicants, they going overseas and bringing them here on work visas.

It is a LIE that we don't have qualified applicants. We DO -- I'm one of them. But American industry doesn't want to pay American wages for American engineers. H1-B temporary visa workers are not only much cheaper, they are also more easily controlled because they cannot change employers -- their visas are sponsored by their employers, so if they quit they are deported.

Employers therefore hire foreign workers with Bachelor's degrees in Engineering as low-paid "help desk" employees at 80% of the prevailing wage for that position, and then assign them to positions involving programming or electrical engineering, which normally command much higher salaries. Temporary visa workers will not complain to anyone that their work doesn't match their job description, because if they do they'll simply be fired and deported.

H1-B visas are only supposed to be granted to companies that cannot find qualified workers in the US, but this rule is openly ignored. Disney recently hired 300 H1-B visa workers to replace American staff. The laid-off employees were required to train their replacements.

The H1-B visa program should END. If American industry needs qualified workers, then they should sponsor training and education for American workers. The cost of education in the US is many times higher than it is in other developed countries. We would have far more educated workers in this country if college were more affordable.

We live in the richest country in the world, but the wealthiest 1/10 of 1% have bought our political system and are looting our economy. That is why our cities are in shambles (while European cities are lovely), our transportation system is 50 years behind the rest of the world (there are high-speed mag-lev trains all over Europe and Asia -- ever seen one here?), a third of our children live in poverty, and our PUBLIC colleges and universities are the most expensive in the world.

-- Paravani

 

[warf]

Not only did we sent them overseas but we've dumbed down our kids so much they can't read or write to fill the demand for the many jobs going unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And, in order to get qualified applicants, they going overseas and bringing them here on work visas.

It is a LIE that we don't have qualified applicants. We DO -- I'm one of them. But American industry doesn't want to pay American wages for American engineers. H1-B temporary visa workers are not only much cheaper, they are also more easily controlled because they cannot change employers -- their visas are sponsored by their employers, so if they quit they are deported.

Employers therefore hire foreign workers with Bachelor's degrees in Engineering as low-paid "help desk" employees at 80% of the prevailing wage for that position, and then assign them to positions involving programming or electrical engineering, which normally command much higher salaries. The temporary visa worker will not complain to anyone that their work doesn't match their job description, because if they do they'll simply be fired and deported, and a new worker will take their place.

H1-B visas are only supposed to be granted to companies that cannot find qualified workers in the US, but this rule is openly ignored. Disney recently hired 300 H1-B visa workers to replace American staff. The laid-off employees were required to train their replacements.

-- Paravani

Southern California Edison is under investigation for firing 500 American workers and replacing them with H1B workers from India.

It was reported that they are being paid $50,000/year less than the Americans they bumped.

 

[paravani]

Not only did we sent them overseas but we've dumbed down our kids so much they can't read or write to fill the demand for the many jobs going unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And, in order to get qualified applicants, they going overseas and bringing them here on work visas.

It is a LIE that we don't have qualified applicants. We DO -- I'm one of them. But American industry doesn't want to pay American wages for American engineers. H1-B temporary visa workers are not only much cheaper, they are also more easily controlled because they cannot change employers -- their visas are sponsored by their employers, so if they quit they are deported.

Employers therefore hire foreign workers with Bachelor's degrees in Engineering as low-paid "help desk" employees at 80% of the prevailing wage for that position, and then assign them to positions involving programming or electrical engineering, which normally command much higher salaries. The temporary visa worker will not complain to anyone that their work doesn't match their job description, because if they do they'll simply be fired and deported, and a new worker will take their place.

H1-B visas are only supposed to be granted to companies that cannot find qualified workers in the US, but this rule is openly ignored. Disney recently hired 300 H1-B visa workers to replace American staff. The laid-off employees were required to train their replacements.

-- Paravani

Southern California Edison is under investigation for firing 500 American workers and replacing them with H1B workers from India.

It was reported that they are being paid $50,000/year less than the Americans they bumped.

Disney should also be investigated.

The corporations who hire the most H1-B employees are Microsoft and Oracle, who both pushed for a HUGE 3-year expansion of the program in the late 1990s. The vast majority of congressmen were against hiring foreigners to replace American workers. Bill Gates and Larry Ellison hired lobbyists and contributed heavily to congressional campaigns, but Congress resisted their efforts for several years. However, on October 4, 2000, the bill was finally passed by only 39 congressmen after everyone else had gone home to watch the Bush/Gore presidential debates. The expansion allowed corporations to hire 190,000 H1-B visas per year during 2001, 2002, and 2003; this produced such a glut on the market that in the final year, some 30,000 of the allowed visas went unclaimed.

H1-B visas are good for three years and can be extended to six, so the flood of cheap foreign engineers lasted from 2001 through 2009, with peak years from 2003 through 2006. Needless to say, any American engineers who graduated between 1999 and 2007 found their expensive college educations to be approximately worthless. During those years, employers only hired American engineers with five or more years experience, because after gaining six years experience their H1-B engineers went home. However, American engineers cannot gain experience if they are not hired into entry-level positions first, and the vast majority of entry-level positions were filled by H1-B visa candidates.

My personal story -- I had the bad luck to graduate with a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering in March of 2000. Although I have varied and impressive internships on my résumé and helped develop "bleeding edge" technology in my first post-college position, I was laid off in January of 2001 and have not worked in my chosen field since then. It isn't that better candidates got the jobs for which I applied: it's that there were NO jobs listed for my level of experience (3 years total at that time). There were NO low-seniority engineering positions advertised for American candidates at all.

-- Paravani

 

[warf]

Not only did we sent them overseas but we've dumbed down our kids so much they can't read or write to fill the demand for the many jobs going unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And, in order to get qualified applicants, they going overseas and bringing them here on work visas.

It is a LIE that we don't have qualified applicants. We DO -- I'm one of them. But American industry doesn't want to pay American wages for American engineers. H1-B temporary visa workers are not only much cheaper, they are also more easily controlled because they cannot change employers -- their visas are sponsored by their employers, so if they quit they are deported.

Employers therefore hire foreign workers with Bachelor's degrees in Engineering as low-paid "help desk" employees at 80% of the prevailing wage for that position, and then assign them to positions involving programming or electrical engineering, which normally command much higher salaries. The temporary visa worker will not complain to anyone that their work doesn't match their job description, because if they do they'll simply be fired and deported, and a new worker will take their place.

H1-B visas are only supposed to be granted to companies that cannot find qualified workers in the US, but this rule is openly ignored. Disney recently hired 300 H1-B visa workers to replace American staff. The laid-off employees were required to train their replacements.

-- Paravani

Southern California Edison is under investigation for firing 500 American workers and replacing them with H1B workers from India.

It was reported that they are being paid $50,000/year less than the Americans they bumped.

Disney should also be investigated.

The corporations who hire the most H1-B employees are Microsoft and Oracle, who both pushed for a HUGE 3-year expansion of the program in the late 1990s. Bill Gates and Larry Ellison hired lobbyists and contributed heavily to congressional campaigns, but the vast majority of congressmen were against hiring foreigners to replace American workers. Congress resisted their efforts for several years, but on October 4, 2000, the the bill was finally passed by only 39 congressmen after everyone else had gone home to watch the Bush/Gore presidential debates. The expansion allowed corporations to hire 190,000 H1-B visas per year during 2001, 2002, and 2003; this produced such a glut on the market that in the final year, some 30,000 of the allowed visas went unclaimed.

H1-B visas are good for three years and can be extended to six, so the flood of cheap foreign engineers lasted from 2001 through 2009, with peak years from 2003 through 2006. Needless to say, any American engineers who graduated between 1999 and 2007 found their expensive college educations to be approximately worthless. During those years, employers only hired American engineers with five or more years experience, because after gaining six years experience their H1-B engineers went home. However, American engineers cannot gain experience if they are not hired into entry-level positions first, and the vast majority of entry-level positions were filled by H1-B visa candidates.

My personal story -- I had the bad luck to graduate with a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering in March of 2000. Although I have varied and impressive internships on my résumé and worked in "bleeding edge" technology my first post-college position, I was laid off in January of 2001 and have not worked in my chosen field since then. It isn't that better candidates got the jobs for which I applied: it's that there were NO jobs listed for my level of experience (3 years total at that time). There were NO low-seniority engineering positions advertised for American candidates at all.

-- Paravani

So much for the old There are no educated Americans so we must hire foreigners line of BS.

There are too many here who ignore reality and logic and buy the 1% propaganda.

 

[paravani]

So much for the old There are no educated Americans so we must hire foreigners line of BS.

There are too many here who ignore reality and logic and buy the 1% propaganda.

It's not entirely the people's fault. The mass media are owned almost entirely by just six corporations, and their spin doctors are very good at what they do -- repeat propaganda until it's accepted as truth and bury inconvenient facts because even the act of denial advertises them. If you simply don't mention something, it ceases to exist in the public consciousness.

Even the internet is now subject to "spin", as those same corporations can pay for higher search rankings. They write their propaganda articles, post them in a wide variety of different online journals that they own, and then pay for those articles to appear first in search results. If they flood the internet with enough of their own spin, then more truthful or more relevant search results will be buried on page 10 of the results listings -- and who looks that far for real information?

Here's an example: A couple of days ago I was searching for Bernie Sanders' actual voting record on the issues. Almost immediately I found his actual voting record on a dot gov website. Now, I tend to keep several tabs open in my browser, and a few hours later one of those other tabs caused my browser to crash. When I re-opened it I searched for Bernie's voting record again using the same search terms.

It was gone. In its place were dozens of negative articles that were essentially exercises in name-calling and spin. None of those articles even referenced or linked his ACTUAL voting record -- they were all purely opinion pieces. I went five pages into the search results before giving up.

(If you're curious, his actual voting record showed a very consistent pattern of voting FOR veterans, FOR people and their rights and voting AGAINST war and corporate subsidies of all kinds.)

At this point, the only truly unbiased source of news that I've found is -- don't laugh -- social media. While people are influenced by the mass media, among themselves they share a much wider variety of information and links than you will find either through the corporate-owned mass media or through internet searches.

-- Paravani