The Truth about Mormons

[daws101]

Joseph Smith had the location of the gold plates revealed to him by god. He was also told that no-one else could view them.

He translated the plates using 'seer stones', from inside his hat, to be written down by Martin Harris.

Harris' wife hides the first set of pages, saying that if he really is translating from plates, he can do it again, word for word, but if not, he won't be able to.
Harris then returns to Smith and says that he has lost the pages. Smith then cannot repeat his translation, and claims that god tells him not to translate from that plate again, but instead to translate from another plate.

Is this last part accepted as part of the story by mormons, or are the south park guys making it up, or 'talking through their hats'? If it is a story told by mormons, I expect there must be some other details that make it seem more miraculous, or at least more convincing.

After looking for a while I found a reference that said anyone other than Smith that saw the plates would die. I also found another reference saying that some trusted group was shown the plates. Were they/Joseph first told that they wouldn't die, presumably by god?

I also saw some arguments that Joseph couldn't have written the book himself(or made it up as he went along, with his head in his hat) because he only had a basic education, whilst the book is beautifully written and a challenge is put forth for any human to write any book like it.
This struck me as remarkably similar to the arguments put forth by Islam, Mohammad being claimed to have been a humble goatherder, whilst the Qur'an is supposed to be some of the most beautiful language ever written.

This argument didn't sway me with Islam, since the only reason I have to think that Mohammad was a goatherder is that it says so in the Qur'an. I also can't read Arabic and the English translations sound like something anyone who has read th bible could make up on the spot.
Often whilst in religious debates people of various religions have claimed to me that their own couldn't possibly have been 'made up by some guy/group of people who wanted to start a religion', whilst it is implied that all other religions must have started or deviated like that. I'm shocked to find that there is a religion that appears so obviously to have been made up on the spot. I'm intrigued to find what form of justification a mormon might have for this.

 

[Avatar4321]

a mormon link! Just a touch bias dont you think!

Yeah. I mean why would Mormons know what they believe?

 

[Avatar4321]

Let's start with a few inaccuracies with the South Park episode:

1Introduction*

2) It says that Mormons believe that Israelites are the only ancestors to Native Americans. Also false.

see also the above link

3) It depicts Martin Harris as a simpleton. This isn't the case. It also neglets to mention the time Martin Harris took the translations to New York to have scholars verify the text:

Joseph Smith

Sometime in this month of February, the aforementioned Mr. Martin Harris came to our place, got the characters which I had drawn off the plates, and started with them to the city of New York. For what took place relative to him and the characters, I refer to his own account of the circumstances, as he related them to me after his return, which was as follows:

64 “I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters. He gave me a certificate, certifying to the people of Palmyra that they were true characters, and that the translation of such of them as had been translated was also correct. I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him.

65 “He then said to me, ‘Let me see that certificate.’ I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the plates to him he would translate them. I informed him that part of the plates were sealed, and that I was forbidden to bring them. He replied, ‘I cannot read a sealed book.’ I left him and went to Dr. Mitchell, who sanctioned what Professor Anthon had said respecting both the characters and the translation.”

And interesting experience, not solely because of the prophecy is Isaiah 29. Here we have an experience between Professor Anthon and Martin Harris. Mr. Anthon, of course, offers a different story claiming he told Martin Harris it was a complete fraud to begin with. Ignoring Dr. Mitchell's verification, Martin and the professor are the only two who know what really happened.

I'm more inclined to believe Martin's version. Not because my belief in the Restoration, but simply because of how Martin reacted after the experience. If the encounter happened the way Professor Anthon stated, then Martin's behavior of becoming a solid believer of the Restoration and mortgaging his property to finance the Book of Mormon when Anthon told him it was a fraud makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He already had his wife against him being involved, which is why he was timid about getting involved to begin with. But after this incident he was eagerly supporting the endevour.

Professor Anthon, on the other hand, has motivation to lie. He is worried about his reputation and doesn't want to be associated with Mormonism... which is ironic because im sure that's the only reason anyone has any idea who he is.

4) Concerning the 114 lost pages, they tried to use that as an argument used by the Mormons to prove it was true. No Latter-day Saint would make such a ridiculous argument in an attempt to convert an investigator. Latter-day Saints are taught throughout their lives to share the Gospel. And we are taught to:

a) Testify to the truth that has been revealed to us by the power of the Spirit
b) Encourage investigators to read the Book of Mormon for themselves and test it as Moroni and Alma taught. (See Alma 32 & Moroni 10:3-5)
c) Go to God to find out for yourself.

We do this because we realize that the only way anyone can know for sure whether the Book of Mormon is true is by the Spirit of God. Yes, we can make rational arguments for and against. But rational arguments are meaningless one God reveals Himself through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Im restudying the Brigham Young Manual. So let me quote a couple Statements from Brigham Young making my point:



Or from his statements in Our search for truth and personal testimony:



And:

Men rise up here and say they do know that this is the work of God, that Joseph was a Prophet, that the Book of Mormon is true, that the revelations through Joseph Smith are true, and this is the last dispensation and the fulness of times, wherein God has set his hand to gather Israel for the last time, and redeem and build up Zion. … How do they know this? Persons know and will continue to know and understand many things by the manifestations of the Spirit, that through the organization of the tabernacle it is impossible otherwise to convey. Much of the most important information is alone derived through the power and testimony of the Holy Ghost. … This is the only way you can convey a knowledge of the invisible things of God [see 1 Corinthians 2:9–14; 1 Corinthians 12:3] (DBY, 430).

Nothing short of the Holy Spirit … can prove to you that this is the work of God. Men uninspired of God cannot by their worldly wisdom disprove it, or prevail against it; neither can they by wisdom alone prove it to be true, either to themselves or to others. Their not being able to prevail against it does not prove it to be the Kingdom of God, for there are many theories and systems on the earth, incontrovertible by the wisdom of the world, which are nevertheless false. Nothing less than the power of the Almighty, enlightening the understanding of men, can demonstrate this glorious truth to the human mind (DBY, 430–31).

How are we to know the voice of the Good Shepherd from the voice of a stranger? Can any person answer this question? I can. It is very easy. To every philosopher upon the earth, I say, your eye can be deceived, so can mine; your ear can be deceived, so can mine; the touch of your hand can be deceived, so can mine; but the Spirit of God filling the creature with revelation and the light of eternity, cannot be mistaken—the revelation which comes from God is never mistaken. When an individual, filled with the Spirit of God, declares the truth of heaven, the sheep hear that [see D&C 29:7], the Spirit of the Lord pierces their inmost souls and sinks deep into their hearts; by the testimony of the Holy Ghost light springs up within them, and they see and understand for themselves (DBY, 431).

There is but one witness—one testimony, pertaining to the evidence of the Gospel of the Son of God, and that is the Spirit that he diffused among his disciples. Do his will, and we shall know whether he speaks by the authority of the Father or of himself. Do as he commands us to do, and we shall know of the doctrine, whether it is of God or not [see John 7:16–17]. It is only by the revelations of the Spirit that we can know the things of God (DBY, 431–32).

Be diligent and prayerful. It is your privilege to know for yourself God lives and that He is doing a work in these last days and we are His honored ministers. Live for this knowledge and you will receive it. Remember your prayers and be fervent in spirit (LBY, 245).

My testimony is based upon experience, upon my own experience, in connection with that obtained by observing others. … The heavenly truth commends itself to every person’s judgment and to their faith; and more especially to the sense of those who wish to be honest with themselves, with their God, and with their neighbor. … If persons can receive a little, it proves they may receive more. If they can receive the first and second principles with an upright feeling, they may receive still more (DBY, 433).

My testimony is positive. … I know that the sun shines, I know that I exist and have a being, and I testify that there is a God, and that Jesus Christ lives, and that he is the Savior of the world. Have you been to heaven and learned to the contrary? I know that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, and that he had many revelations. Who can disprove this testimony? Any one may dispute it, but there is no one in the world who can disprove it. I have had many revelations; I have seen and heard for myself, and know these things are true, and nobody on earth can disprove them. The eye, the ear, the hand, all the senses may be deceived, but the Spirit of God cannot be deceived; and when inspired with that Spirit, the whole man is filled with knowledge, he can see with a spiritual eye, and know that which is beyond the power of man to controvert. What I know concerning God, concerning the earth, concerning government, I have received from the heavens, not alone through my natural ability, and I give God the glory and the praise (DBY, 433).

These principles have hardly been taught solely by Brigham Young. All the Prophets and Apostles have taught these things. My own personal experiences have shown me that this is true as well. It was the Spirit who told me that Joseph Smith was a prophet. When I relied on my own understanding there was reason to doubt. Both sides could make arguments. But I notice there is only ever one side that tells people to not trust them but go to God and find out. I did that. I invite you and any one else who is reading this to do this. Because when the Spirit of the Lord testifies to a man, He cannot honestly deny it. The Spirit overwhelms us with love, glory, power. Even those words, while accurately depicting the experience barely begin to describe it.

I've pointed out a few problems with the episode. I would hardly say that's all of them, but I've made my point. It's a caricature. A pretty good one, even funny to a degree. But it's a caricature. It takes the Restoration out of context. It misrepresents those who are depicted. It was designed to do that. It's not supposed to be 100% accurate. That's precisely why you can't rely on it for knowledge of the truth. It has great entertainment value, but when we are talking about the truth, you'd be a fool to rely on it.

There is only one source of truth in the Universe. And that is God. He reveals the truths about His Gospel and Kingdom. He inspires all the truths of men, religious, philosophical, or scientific. No one has learned anything that God has not revealed to man.

If you want to know the Truth of the Restoration you need to study the Book of Mormon. You need to study the Bible. And the other revelations. You need to read the words of the Prophets and Apostles. And most importantly you need to pray to God the Father in the Name of Jesus Christ and if you do that in humility and sincerity, you will find out for yourself whether it's true or not.

This work is either of God or it's not. And the only one who can give you an answer to that is God.

) "It claims Joseph was the only one who ever saw the plates. Which is false."-AVATAR
NO IT'S TRUE: ...when questioned closely the witnesses said they never really saw the gold plates except when they were wrapped up or covered. They used terms like “vision” or “I saw them with the eye of faith.” ...Of these eleven total witnesses, over half apostatized from the Mormon church.... Joseph Smith and other Mormon officials are on record as calling his three main witnesses “thieves and liars.” In History of the Church Joseph Smith said, “Such characters as ... David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, are too mean to mention, and we would like to have forgotten them.
" It says that Mormons believe that Israelites are the only ancestors to Native Americans. Also false.

WRONG AGAIN:

According to the Book of Mormon, a Lamanite is a member of a dark-skinned nation of indigenous Americans that battled with the light-skinned Nephite nation. Although mainstream archaeologists, geneticists, and historians do not recognize the existence of Lamanites, adherents of the Latter Day Saint movement typically believe that the Lamanites comprise some part, if not the entirety, of the indigenous peoples of the Americas and the Polynesian people.

The Book of Mormon describes the Lamanites as descendants of Laman and Lemuel, two rebellious brothers of a family of Israelites who crossed the ocean in a boat around 600 BC. Their brother Nephi founded the Nephite nation. The Lamanites reputedly gained their dark skin as a sign of the curse for their rebelliousness (the curse itself being the withdrawal of the Spirit of God), and warred with the Nephites over a period of centuries. The book says that Jesus appeared and converted all the Lamanites to Christianity; however, after about two centuries, the Lamanites fell away and eventually exterminated all the Nephites. By the end of the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites were defined less by their skin color than by their lack of Christianity. Many Mormons believe that the Polynesian people originated from the descendents of Hagoth who led his people off on a ship and was never heard from again. Although Hagoth was a Nephite, these Mormons regard Polynesians as Lamanites.

The existence of a Lamanite nation has received no support within mainstream science or archaeology. Genetic studies indicate that the indigenous Americans are primarily from northeast Asia, and the Polynesians are from southeast Asia. This has led many Mormon apologetic scholars to hypothesize that the Lamanites were a small nation that merged with the indigenous population of northeast Asian origin and left no clear traces surviving into the modern world. Within the culture of Mormonism, indigenous Americans and Polynesians are still often called "Lamanites", but the practice is waning.



I grew up mormon ..even at the tender age of seven: this reeeked of bullshit.
thanks wiki.. According to Latter Day Saint belief, the golden plates (also called the gold plates or in some 19th century literature, the golden Bible)[1] are the source from which Joseph Smith, Jr. translated the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the faith. Some witnesses described the plates as weighing from 30 to 60 pounds,[2] being golden or brassy in color, and being composed of thin metallic pages engraved on both sides and bound with one or more rings.

Smith said he found the plates on September 22, 1823 at a hill near his home in Manchester, New York after an angel directed him to a buried stone box. The angel at first prevented Smith from taking the plates because he had not followed the angel's instructions. In 1827, on his fourth annual attempt to retrieve the plates, Smith returned home with a heavy object wrapped in a frock, which he then put in a box. Though he allowed others to heft the box, he said that the angel had forbidden him to show the plates to anyone until they had been translated from their original "reformed Egyptian" language. Smith dictated a translation using a seer stone in the bottom of a hat, which he placed over his face to view the words written within the stone.[3] Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon.

Smith eventually obtained testimonies from eleven men, known as the Book of Mormon witnesses, who said they had seen the plates.[4] After the translation was complete, Smith said he returned the plates to their angelic guardian. Therefore, if the plates existed, they cannot now be examined. Latter Day Saints believe the account of the golden plates as a matter of faith, while critics often assert that either Smith manufactured the plates himself[5] or that the Book of Mormon witnesses based their testimony on visions rather than physical experience

You can ignore the witness if you want. But they are there.

 

[Listening]

You don't know that he wasn't talking to God. That is just a conclusion you have reached. If you were to at least qualify your responses, you might not be considered the board moron.

Nobody in this cult tells me how to run my life. They present the plan and I can either follow the plan or not. When I don't, nobody is at my door to do anything about it.

.

The fact that you are going batshit crazy because a total stranger is mocking the stupidity tells me you are probably just a step from swigging the kool-aid.

I know he wasn't talking to God because

1) THere is no God. Never was.
2) If he were talking to the omnipotent creator of the universe, he simply wouldn't have gotten so many things wrong.

Wow !!!

What a knockout argument !!!

I mean...I have never seen something so compelling.

With logic like this....who could argue ?

Your bitterness shows through with every post.

Whose mocking who ?

 

[Listening]

a mormon link! Just a touch bias dont you think!

Yeah. I mean why would Mormons know what they believe?

More to the point. What reason do we have to lie ?

Do we know everything ? Hardly. Even our own leaders have taught us that.

And they also teach us that on an individual basis, it is our responsibility to find out things that are unique to us and to pursue them.

The concept of a Patriarchal Blessing is something that most people don't know about. I've talked to dozens of people who have found the council in those to be of incredible usefulness. Unless someone goes through that process, how would they know.

Instead they read F. Brodie (a book writeen a century after the fact) and eat that up because like so many, they have the conclusion they want....they just need some "facts".

Of course, when Nibley writes "No ma'am, that's not history", well he can't possibly be anything but biased.....even though they can't fight his logic.

What do we know ?

 

[HUGGY]

Mormon Truth!!

Just sayin....

 

[Skeptik]

Mormon Truth!!

Just sayin....

Ever notice that, when someone ends a post by "just sayin'", what they're usually sayin' is a load of hooey?

 

[HUGGY]

Mormon Truth!!

Just sayin....

Ever notice that, when someone ends a post by "just sayin'", what they're usually sayin' is a load of hooey?

Who are YOU? Andy Fuckin Rooney?

 

[JoeB131]

You don't know that he wasn't talking to God. That is just a conclusion you have reached. If you were to at least qualify your responses, you might not be considered the board moron.

Nobody in this cult tells me how to run my life. They present the plan and I can either follow the plan or not. When I don't, nobody is at my door to do anything about it.

.

The fact that you are going batshit crazy because a total stranger is mocking the stupidity tells me you are probably just a step from swigging the kool-aid.

I know he wasn't talking to God because

1) THere is no God. Never was.
2) If he were talking to the omnipotent creator of the universe, he simply wouldn't have gotten so many things wrong.

Wow !!!

What a knockout argument !!!

I mean...I have never seen something so compelling.

With logic like this....who could argue ?

Your bitterness shows through with every post.

Whose mocking who ?

Duly noted you didn't have an argument.

Now, you think if Joey was talking to the Sky Pixie, the Sky Pixie would have told him he was being punked when they gave him the Kinderhook Plates. Or the Sky Pixie wouldn't have told him that there were Giant Quakers on the Moon when the thing doesn't have an atmosphere. Or that maybe he'd have told him the Book of Abraham was a 1st century funerary papyrus dedicated to Osiris...

So there are only two logical conclusions one could draw.

1) There is no God, or at least he wasn't talking to Jos. Smith.

or

2) God was totally messing with Smith's head so he'd look stupid.

Just saying. Because as a Prophet, Smith wouldn't have even made a good weatherman.

 

[JoeB131]

Mormon Truth!!

Just sayin....

Oh, man, the sight of Mitt and Ann in their magic underwear...


You are a cruel, cruel man, Huggy!

 

[Skeptik]

Mormon Truth!!

Just sayin....

Ever notice that, when someone ends a post by "just sayin'", what they're usually sayin' is a load of hooey?

Who are YOU? Andy Fuckin Rooney?

Why, yes, yes I am. Why do you ask?

 

[Listening]

The fact that you are going batshit crazy because a total stranger is mocking the stupidity tells me you are probably just a step from swigging the kool-aid.

I know he wasn't talking to God because

1) THere is no God. Never was.
2) If he were talking to the omnipotent creator of the universe, he simply wouldn't have gotten so many things wrong.

Wow !!!

What a knockout argument !!!

I mean...I have never seen something so compelling.

With logic like this....who could argue ?

Your bitterness shows through with every post.

Whose mocking who ?

Duly noted you didn't have an argument.

Now, you think if Joey was talking to the Sky Pixie, the Sky Pixie would have told him he was being punked when they gave him the Kinderhook Plates. Or the Sky Pixie wouldn't have told him that there were Giant Quakers on the Moon when the thing doesn't have an atmosphere. Or that maybe he'd have told him the Book of Abraham was a 1st century funerary papyrus dedicated to Osiris...

So there are only two logical conclusions one could draw.

1) There is no God, or at least he wasn't talking to Jos. Smith.

or

2) God was totally messing with Smith's head so he'd look stupid.

Just saying. Because as a Prophet, Smith wouldn't have even made a good weatherman.

Wow !!!!

Once again, you really did knock me out with this one. I mean who could not look at that short paragraph and not draw the same conclusions you do....after all, you have no ax to grind or display no bitterness at all.

With a pedigree like yours and logic like that demonstrated above, I am not sure how I can resist the ideas you put forth ?

Well, I know one way.

Easily.

The thread is Truth, not OPINION about mormonism.

And when it comes to setting standards against which things will be judged....based on your blitherings I would not trust you to know the difference between red, white and blue on the American flag.

Get a life.

 

[Listening]

Umm, guy, I happen to like my red meat and a glass of wine. And I don't want anyone telling me I can't have that if I want it. At least not someone who says that he got a message from a sky pixie that I can't have it.

Joseph Smith wasn't interested in their health, he was interested in what all cult leaders are interested in- controlling the lives of less smart people and imposing their will on them.

That you drink a lot of red whine is evident in your rather weak and disjointed posts.

You still have not backed any of your claims up with anything that would remotely look like a good argument and I will continue to point out what a bitter fraud you are as long as you continue.

 

[Listening]

Truth, I believe in keeping faith simple. The simpler the better. The more you bring religion into it, the more problems you have with misunderstanding and ridicule.

Take for instance the Mormon position that the American Indians were descended from Jewish tribes that immigrated to this continent in two migrations. One across the Atlantic and one across the Pacific under water.

I have fun with that with my Mormon friends and ask them about where the Nuclear Power submarines came from that allowed the Jews/Indians to breath underwater with Oxygen generators... They always have trouble with that one.

Then I ask about all the great cities that the Indians had in the New World, but none of them correspond with the actual locations of archeological digs. I had one good Mormon friend who could only theorize that there were tremendous earthquakes just before Columbus came to the Americas and that those earthquakes moved all of the Indian cities around, as much as five hundred miles in some cases. Do you realize what tremendous tidal waves that would have created? That would have wiped all of the sea ports off of the surface of the earth, yet no tidal waves were reported.

Then add to that the fact that the Indians do not have any Jewish DNA Not a drop in the pure natives of this land. There was a Jewish mountain man by the name of Goldberger who impregnated over 100 Indian women in the late 1700's and early 1800's, but all of his DNA was documented in the Cherokee and various Plaines Indian tribes. What a man!

Nope, dude, it is better that you guys stress that God does forgive sin and that all we have to do to be forgiven is repent and ask for forgiveness and then ask for guidance. IF you teach that, most people can not disagree with you and you will have many followers. That can be a very good thing in this day and age.

While I agree with your main point, I don't agree with your argument against the factualness of the Book Of Mormon. That science can't "prove" it has little bearing on it's purpose or authenticity. Anything is possible....but this is what is more important.

At the end of the Book it says:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your chearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.

it does not say......

And when ye shall recieve these things I would exhort you to dig up half of South or Central America.....

It is a book about people and their dealings with each other as structured under the laws of eternity....not an archealogical guide to ruins of Mexico (or whereever). And if people say, well....you can't trust something that is not true....I say, when you can put a final defintion of what is true (meaning what science can no longer show is possible or not such that only one conclusion can be reached.......), then I'll be more close minded.

Until then, I read the Book of Mormon to learn how to be a better member of the human family by following the teaching of Jesus Christ. I don't read it to worry about what may have shown up that isn't explained in the book (there are allusions to all kinds of records we don't have.....what might they shed light on if we had them....and then, what would you do if we had more light....ask more questions or base your faith on archeology that might show the Book of Mormon is true....some that would be a huge mistake).

 

[JoeB131]

Umm, guy, I happen to like my red meat and a glass of wine. And I don't want anyone telling me I can't have that if I want it. At least not someone who says that he got a message from a sky pixie that I can't have it.

Joseph Smith wasn't interested in their health, he was interested in what all cult leaders are interested in- controlling the lives of less smart people and imposing their will on them.

That you drink a lot of red whine is evident in your rather weak and disjointed posts.

You still have not backed any of your claims up with anything that would remotely look like a good argument and I will continue to point out what a bitter fraud you are as long as you continue.

I drink white wine, actually, and it's spelled "wine", not "whine". Whine is what Mormons do when people point out they are batshit crazy.

 

[Listening]

I drink white wine, actually, and it's spelled "wine", not "whine". Whine is what Mormons do when people point out they are batshit crazy.

Wow !!!

Smashed again.

I can't take your brilliance.

You are a fraud.

 

[JoeB131]

I drink white wine, actually, and it's spelled "wine", not "whine". Whine is what Mormons do when people point out they are batshit crazy.

Wow !!!

Smashed again.

I can't take your brilliance.

You are a fraud.

Well, obviously you can't. I seem to really be getting your magic underpanties in a wad, don't I?

 

[Listening]

I drink white wine, actually, and it's spelled "wine", not "whine". Whine is what Mormons do when people point out they are batshit crazy.

Wow !!!

Smashed again.

I can't take your brilliance.

You are a fraud.

Well, obviously you can't. I seem to really be getting your magic underpanties in a wad, don't I?

Don't kid yourself.

I've dealth with much much much better than you.

You are a fraud.

 

[Listening]

Actually you can talk to different Mormons from different Wards and they will give you there version of the interpretation of the book of mormon and it will be different then what the last brother or sister said. Additionally a lot of Mormons who come to Utah become disenchanted by the snootiness and cliques the Church has out here. It really depends on who you know who you talk to and how they interpret what the church says.

Well actually it doesn't depend on what interpretations people have. There are going to be a lot of mormons who will be in a lot more trouble at the judgment day than non-mormons because they fail to listen to the prophet and the official translations of all doctrines. there is no room for interpretation of official doctrines. Every thing I will say will be based on official church doctrine, otherwise I will say it is just my opinion.

While the statement about "official" doctrine is true....there is a problem I'd like to address here.

Contrary to what many say, the "truth" is that the mormon church does not tell you how to put on your pants and tie your shoes. The admonition to "work out your own salvation" is very much a part of our doctrine as we all have unique circumstances and situations that we address each and every day.

The church teaches processes such as meditation (practiced far to little), study and prayer to find out what it is that we each need to be doing and to gain the strengths we need to accomplish our tasks.

Additionally, there is an external emphasis on material needs. We do emphasise self sufficiency (to a fault....and not at the highest levels....our culture seems to gravitate to it), but the main focus is on eternal relationships with spouse, children, extended family and friends. The sealing power is so misunderstood.

This, with so much else, is there to give us the tools we need to connect with God and find our path back to him.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, obviously you can't. I seem to really be getting your magic underpanties in a wad, don't I?

Don't kid yourself.

I've dealth with much much much better than you.

You are a fraud.

Then why am I the one sitting here having laughs at your expense? You are the one getting massively upset because someone is mocking your batshit crazy beliefs, guy.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra Crispy!