The Truth about Mormons

[JoLouis]

Truth, you're 0 for 2.

Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!

Because there were portions not translated. Mobs were a big enough problem without there being gold plates in anyones possession as it was.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Why did He ascend to heaven? Why didnt He show himself to everyone? Instead, He called 12 eye witnesses to testify to the world that He rose from the dead.

Likewise, He called 12 witnesses to see the plates and testify before the world that they did. Because the Book of Mormon is a type for Jesus Christ. The best evidence for it's veracity is the book itself.

Here we have a 500+ page book that was dictated in a process that took roughly two months. It's internally consistant with itself and with the Bible. Weaves a complex narrative. Includes ancient poetic form, along with names, phrases, and places ancient in origin and unknown in the Frontier of the United States at the time. It describes an accurate path through Arabia that was unknown to the time and contains accurate names and descriptions of the locations along the path.

Such is impressive by itself alone, but it also contains a promise that those who read and study it, then go to the Lord in Humble and Sincere prayer, will recieve knowledge from the Holy Ghost that it's true. And I've seen countless people do this very thing and recieve revelation from the Lord that it is true. I've experienced it myself. There is power in the words that change people's lives.

I recommend taking the challenge.

Seriously though, you guys will believe ANYTHING.

 

[Eightball]

If God was inspiring the translation process of the Book of Mormon, why were 4,000 changes necessary?

Because translations and printing involve humans and humans make mistakes.

God inspired Book of Mormon, and 4,000 human screw-ups in 100+ years? Seems the Mormon "g"od is rather weak and anemic and very much non-omnipotent.

Bible: Dead Sea Isaiah scroll is an exact match of present day bible translations..............Question: Who's God is omnipotent and is capable of protecting His message to mankind? In 100+ years, the Mormon/LDS god has lacked control over his "inspired word", as LDS scribes have made 4,000+ errors in that translation.

In 2,000 years from the Dead Sea scrolls to present, evidence indicates that the bible is "dead on". Check it out for yourselves. Nearly all of the OT books were found at Qumran, except for Ruth.........and they hadn't differed from present day KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, or RSV.........

Clear and substantiated evidence "does" demand a verdict..................

 

[Avatar4321]

You have been proven inaccurate many times on LDS doctrine and policy, Truthspeaker. The Journal of Discourses were considered in its day binding. Today it is not. Thus, logic follows, what is said to be binding today may not be in the future. Your opinion is your own, but it certainly much of the time does not reflect what the church was teaching then and at times what it is teaching now. No, you are not authorative, or very knowledgable, at all.

Could you point to the General Conference where the Journal fo Discource was adopted as binding scripture?

Can you point to the JD and BY and other GAs statements that it was not binding on the Saints. The membership understood it as such, and what the leadership today has to say about it means nothing at all in relation to how the leadership and membership then thought about it.

Statements and revelations need to be presented the Church and adopted in order to be authortative. We have four such adopted standard works. The Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

Journal of Discourses has never been adopted. Nor has it ever been editted to make sure what was said is an accurate portrayal of what the speakers actually said. In fact, much of it is in short hand. That's the problem with living in a time where video recorders did not exist.

Ironically, I could point to statements in the JoD itself where Brigham spells out His statements should be editted by him for correctness and presented before the Church in order to be binding. No attempt was ever made with the Journal of Discources.

 

[Avatar4321]

Truth, you're 0 for 2.

Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!

Because there were portions not translated. Mobs were a big enough problem without there being gold plates in anyones possession as it was.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Why did He ascend to heaven? Why didnt He show himself to everyone? Instead, He called 12 eye witnesses to testify to the world that He rose from the dead.

Likewise, He called 12 witnesses to see the plates and testify before the world that they did. Because the Book of Mormon is a type for Jesus Christ. The best evidence for it's veracity is the book itself.

Here we have a 500+ page book that was dictated in a process that took roughly two months. It's internally consistant with itself and with the Bible. Weaves a complex narrative. Includes ancient poetic form, along with names, phrases, and places ancient in origin and unknown in the Frontier of the United States at the time. It describes an accurate path through Arabia that was unknown to the time and contains accurate names and descriptions of the locations along the path.

Such is impressive by itself alone, but it also contains a promise that those who read and study it, then go to the Lord in Humble and Sincere prayer, will recieve knowledge from the Holy Ghost that it's true. And I've seen countless people do this very thing and recieve revelation from the Lord that it is true. I've experienced it myself. There is power in the words that change people's lives.

I recommend taking the challenge.

Seriously though, you guys will believe ANYTHING.

If it's true. Why not? Why limit yourself?

 

[Avatar4321]

God inspired Book of Mormon, and 4,000 human screw-ups in 100+ years? Seems the Mormon "g"od is rather weak and anemic and very much non-omnipotent.

Bible: Dead Sea Isaiah scroll is an exact match of present day bible translations..............Question: Who's God is omnipotent and is capable of protecting His message to mankind? In 100+ years, the Mormon/LDS god has lacked control over his "inspired word", as LDS scribes have made 4,000+ errors in that translation.

In 2,000 years from the Dead Sea scrolls to present, evidence indicates that the bible is "dead on". Check it out for yourselves. Nearly all of the OT books were found at Qumran, except for Ruth.........and they hadn't differed from present day KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, or RSV.........

Clear and substantiated evidence "does" demand a verdict..................

You are in denial if you can't see human error in the Bible. The scriptures aren't meant to be perfected or worshiped as the ultimate authority in life. They are designed to record the testimonies of those who have personal experiences with God and taught His plan to the children of men. They are meant to instruct, edify, and lead people to trust in God and His Holy Spirit more than in the flesh and in our own understanding.

The Pharisees studied the scriptures, yet relied on their own understanding and ignored the living Oracle of the day, which was Christ Himself.

You have sited 5 different English versions of the Bible. If they were all correct, there would be no point in people reinventing the wheel. We would need one.

Oh, and a copy matching a copy of a manuscript doesn't mean that it's identical to the Originals, which we don't have.

You don't need perfect scriptures to lead to a Perfect God. Until you understand that it is upon God that we must trust, you will never reach your full potential. You'll grow to a point, but then you will be stopped. God has alot more for us than simply what's in the Bible. There are things He has not revealed to man that He wants to show us, but which we are unprepared to recieve.

It's amazing that despite reading the Bible about God's constant communication with man, you seem to think He has changed and ceased speaking.

 

[JoLouis]

Because there were portions not translated. Mobs were a big enough problem without there being gold plates in anyones possession as it was.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Why did He ascend to heaven? Why didnt He show himself to everyone? Instead, He called 12 eye witnesses to testify to the world that He rose from the dead.

Likewise, He called 12 witnesses to see the plates and testify before the world that they did. Because the Book of Mormon is a type for Jesus Christ. The best evidence for it's veracity is the book itself.

Here we have a 500+ page book that was dictated in a process that took roughly two months. It's internally consistant with itself and with the Bible. Weaves a complex narrative. Includes ancient poetic form, along with names, phrases, and places ancient in origin and unknown in the Frontier of the United States at the time. It describes an accurate path through Arabia that was unknown to the time and contains accurate names and descriptions of the locations along the path.

Such is impressive by itself alone, but it also contains a promise that those who read and study it, then go to the Lord in Humble and Sincere prayer, will recieve knowledge from the Holy Ghost that it's true. And I've seen countless people do this very thing and recieve revelation from the Lord that it is true. I've experienced it myself. There is power in the words that change people's lives.

I recommend taking the challenge.

Seriously though, you guys will believe ANYTHING.

If it's true. Why not? Why limit yourself?

It's not true, which makes you a self-deluded sucker. If god did exist do you really think he'd need a bunch of you whackos to go door to door? Or would it be a self evident fact, like looking at a tree.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JoLouis does not understand that it takes far more faith to not believe in God than to believe in God.

JL is one of the original true believers.

 

[JoLouis]

JoLouis does not understand that it takes far more faith to not believe in God than to believe in God.

JL is one of the original true believers.

Buddy, you have it ass backwards. Faith is the belief in something for which there is no proof, I never said that I am certain that there is no god, just that no one's proven it yet. And every time Av opens his mouth, whacked out stuff pours out.

 

[Eightball]

JoLouis does not understand that it takes far more faith to not believe in God than to believe in God.

JL is one of the original true believers.

Buddy, you have it ass backwards. Faith is the belief in something for which there is no proof, I never said that I am certain that there is no god, just that no one's proven it yet. And every time Av opens his mouth, whacked out stuff pours out.

JL:

Faith...........you exercise it in your life every day.............

Example: You sit down in a chair...............? Faith: You just put your "trust/faith/confidence" in the one who built the chair. The chair-builder is someone you have "never" met, his/her furniture factory you have most likely never visited, but never the less you put your confidence-"faith" in the competence of that "chair builder" that you will not end up with your fanny on the floor, with a broken-badly-built chair.

Unless you buy your chair in a box like at IKEA or Walmart and put it together yourself, you have just put your "blind" trust in some else's ability to build a safe/strong chair.

Now you can say, "Oh, but I bought knowing that this manufacturer makes good, strong stuff"...........but, that's only your "trust" in evidences that you have heard about, or possibly furniture you tested at the furniture store.

Not once, have you met the "chair builder", but have made your decision based on possibly trying examples of that builder's product.
******
Now, with Christianity, it is truly "faith" that is based on trust too.

Obviously, there are no people living nowadays who have seen Jesus, were at his crucifixion, were witnesses to the empty tomb, nor his subsequent ressurrection, but the bible contains eye-witness reports from a myriad of authors of different backgrounds.

Witnesses: A doctor(Luke), tax collector(Matthew), Peter(Fisherman), Mary Magdalene(former adultress), Nicodemus(Religious Pharisee), and the witnesses go on and on to come to a very large count.

Josephus: He was not a Christian, but was a Jewish witness who wrote much about this "Jesus thing" called "The Way", or Christ-Ones(Christians). It was turning the Roman empire upside down. It pushed people like Emperor Nero to place the blame of Rome's massive fires on the Christians that lived in Rome around 64 A.D.. Fortunately, the Roman populous at the time didn't whole-heartedly "buy" into his scheme, but Nero didn't stop his crusade of condemning Christians to prison, torture, and death.

Something had literally "touched" these folks from Jerusalem and throughout Asia minor, all the way to Spain.

To believe or be a Christian was a guaranteed sentence of persecution from the Jewish Sanhedrin, to the non-believing gentile populations elsewhere.

Paul was beheaded in Rome.........Peter was crucified upside down, as he claimed that being crucified like his Lord, and Savior, Jesus was not worthy of he/Peter..........

Thomas who was a skeptic, wasn't present when the ressurrected Jesus visited the much-harried disciples who were still awaiting Jesus' special gift(Holy Spirit) that was to come on Pentecost, after His ascension. Christ made a special visit back in that upper room, just for Thomas, but no doubt it impacted all present.

He told Thomas to physically touch his crucifixion scars to "prove" that He was truly that same Jesus that Thomas and the rest of his fellow disciples has spent the last 3 years with.

You see, JL, Thomas couldn't accept the ressurrection unless he physically, and saw, the evidences, or he just wouldn't/couldn't accept that this Jesus was really the bonafide, validated, one he/Thomas had been with for so long.

Thomas' Rebuke By Jesus: JL.......This is the crux of what I'm getting at in rebuttle/response to your comment on "faith".

Jesus' rebuke to Thomas was this............"Thomas, you have now believed in Me as your God, Lord, and Savior because you have "seen and touched", but............................Blessed our those who will believe and have not "seen" as you.
******
J.L. You exercise "faith" as all of us do, in that which you cannot see, every day of your life. I exercise faith everyday that my automobile will get me to work, that my marriage will stay strong, that my grown children and their families will be safe.

The world that has no faith in "God" has no assurrances except in their own physicality, existence, and power of decision. Yet, they all go on believing that they will have many "tomorrows" before them. That is a type of faith, yet you and I know that life can let us down, and that "faith" we had in tomorrows is gone in many cases.

Just a few weeks ago, our neighbors experienced a tragic loss of the wife, a very young Mom to cancer. No doubt when the husband first said "I do" in that marriage ceremony, there was no doubt in their minds that they would grow old together as a married couple. Their future was bright, their lives would be filled with children, many holiday dinners, vacations,,,,,,,,,,,etc...

This world/earthly life of ours is filled with opportunities, yet also many disappointments.............It's unavoidable. Just as we all know that old age, and death is a guaranteed inevitability.

So what is faith? Well, it's a hope based on a confidence in something or someone or someones. Just as you place your confidence on the sun rising every morning, or your chair holding your weight while you use it..........So the Christian, has placed their confidence/trust/faith, in the "promises" laid-down in the bible.

Paul the apostle of Jesus, said that "He is the "same" yesterday, today, and tomorrow".........I.E.. The God that protected and disciplined the children of Israel is the same God who spoke to Mary and Joseph, in advance of the virgin birth of Christ in Mary's wombs by the work of God's Spirit(Holy Spirit). He is also the same God that when imparting His life into every person who is defined as a Christian have become "unique" human creatures within this mammoth human population on this terrestrial ball we call earth.

True Christians are indeed "different". No doubt or possibly you have known friends who were once one way in life, and then became strangely, but interestingly different in a positive way and attributed it to become a Christian.

JL: The evidence is here today. Just as "Doubting Thomas" needed evidence in certain ways to believe that Jesus truly beat death, and the grave as the one and only first Pioneer to lead others who placed their trust in His life and had that life imparted into their secular, unbelieving souls; faith again was the instrument of make that complete.

The bible says that faith in God in not something that us humans can conjure, but is a result of God's Spirit working on our Adamic souls that have never experienced this new, and completed life.

Why JL do you think the world or the non-Christian world looks and looks for "kicks" in any and everything. Cars, vacations, lotteries, property, prestige through job positions, ..............Man for eons has been trying to make an identity for him/herself through "things".......Yet you and I know that things don't last an eternity, cause the moment that medical finding comes to us that we have cancer, or our spouse is deathly sick or it's one of our children, or a parent, or relative, we start to wonder about life, and what makes it important...........

I owned a Porsche 968 for a number of years. I had fun driving it, and even competed in autocross competiton with it, yet the thrill that I got was momentary, and after awhile, it wasn't that much fun anymore.

Faith in things...........the world.........we all do..........it's part and partial of getting through each day. We place our confidences in thousands of manmade things everyday in order to finish up that day successfully........Yet, at anytime those things can let us down.........as they are really transitory in nature. They will rust, erode, or just plain wear-out.

The Christian faith, or confidence is placed in Someone, who has preserved for us a very adequate recording of His life, His Nature, His character, so that we can exercise "confidence" in believing that He is the ultimate "builder". He didn't let-down His followers, and He has promised to not them down for eternity. In fact He promises a special place or dwelling for every true believer in Him.

He even calls those who believe in Him, brothers/sisters........

He even promises to continually be the believer's advocate(attorney) before the throne of God the Father.

Why an advocate? Because, His life is imparted into every person who truly places their faith in Him/Jesus. And because each human being who receives His life, is also accepted by God the Father, and receives as an incredible gift, God the Holy Spirit to guide, counsel, and interpret the Spiritual nature of God's written Word, the bible.

So this faith that is based on 2,000+ years of many God-inspired authors in 66 books, that were deemed by early Christian elders to comprise the complete or necessary expressions of God's plan, nature, identity, and man's role in relationship to Him has changed millions of lives throughout the world.

China, has a growing underground bible church that totally scares the Chinese authorities. Why? It poses no threat upon society, as it expresses in it's followers ethical, loving, forgiving, hopeful, and servantude type lives, that can only enhance a nation's populous.

As the bible states, the Christian life versus the non-Christian life is not unlike oil and water. They can't mix under any circumstances.

The non-mix element is that this love and concern and wholeness that comes to a Christian's life, is wholly foreign to the non-Christian.

It's as though the non-Christian has this vacuum or space within their very inner being that is looking, looking, and looking for that final "rest" that will get them off the perpetual treadmill of life that seems to have no ultimate meaning.

Christ fullfilled the "meaning of life" hole in mankind. Yet God is the ultimate gentleman, and will not enter a soul where it is not invited.

God has been calling His estranged creation back into the safe sheep-fold that is His possession through His Son's incredible work of redeeming mankind at the cross and through His ressurrection.

Jesus wasn't just a nice man, or a great O.T. teacher. That's the world's way of blowing off Christianity as they don't want to allow their souls to be transparently open to this real, bonafide life offered freely through the willful act of attrition, repentance, acceptance, and faith in what He/Jesus really did for them 2,000 years ago.

JL: Faith is based on belief in evidences.

Just as we have no living witnesses to Christ's life living today, we have no witnesses to Bhudda's, Abraham Lincoln, Mohammed, George Washington, Plato, Aristotle, yet without a doubt most will accept or exercise faith in the previous existence of these.

The main difference is that Christ is the only one that defied death, and through that defiance and victory has offered to impart His ressurrected life to all who might believe in Him.
*******

 

[JoLouis]

Eightball, you're a major simpleton. I sit in a chair because I can touch it and lean on it and sit on it for real. You can see it, touch... too. So could everyone in the world see my chair... I wouldn't have to go door to door with my chair trying to explain to people that my chair is real and if they would just have blind faith in it, that they could sit down too!

Sorry, but you're eye witnesses are doubtfull. The earliest parts of the bible were written several generations after Jesus' death. So not only is it an oral history written down later on, none of the stuff in it can be verified. To say that you can't disprove it either would point to the weakest of your argument.
Sorry, your post is way too long for me to respond to the rest.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JL, your evidence is non-existent. Have you or anyone else looked in all of creation in the split nth second and not seen God? Thus it takes far more faith to believe in God, of whom billions testify, than a few hundred thousand simpletons claim does not. Your opinion is laughable.

 

[JoLouis]

Jake, billions testify to your god? The one that comes from kolob? You sure about that?

And I'd like to see you prove any of the big things in the bible. Please, go ahead.

 

[Eightball]

Eightball, you're a major simpleton. I sit in a chair because I can touch it and lean on it and sit on it for real. You can see it, touch... too. So could everyone in the world see my chair... I wouldn't have to go door to door with my chair trying to explain to people that my chair is real and if they would just have blind faith in it, that they could sit down too!

Sorry, but you're eye witnesses are doubtfull. The earliest parts of the bible were written several generations after Jesus' death. So not only is it an oral history written down later on, none of the stuff in it can be verified. To say that you can't disprove it either would point to the weakest of your argument.
Sorry, your post is way too long for me to respond to the rest.

Oh dear Joe........all of the N.T. gospels and epistles were written by eyewitnesses of Christ..........Not generations later. Just check out the dates of the various letters that Paul, Peter, John, James, Mark, Matthew, Luke, wrote. They all wrote their letters in their elder, senior years of life.

Please don't throw out blanket statements like "generations later"...Bible scholars and secular historians totally disagree with your assessment.

As for the chair.........You didn't get the premise of my example.

You sit in the chair because it doesn't collapse. That's fine, but there had to be a "First Time" you tried the chair................................Afterwards you were convinced.

So it was wil those who record Christ's life, minstery, and teachings....... The saw, touched, heard, experienced ...........and are telling you and me about it. Just remember that this collection of men and women were from every aspect of life..........They all came together in a bond or fellowship of unity, because of Christ's imparted life in them. They also were all avid seekers of the Truth, and questioned Christ in so many ways throughout the 4 gospels. They weren't "pushovers".........At times they doubted, and many walked away from Christ, when He allegorically said, "If you are to follow Me, you must drink my blood, and eat my flesh.".

The blood of Christ represented his life giving blood.........that was the Passover Lamb's blood that only pushed the sins of a nation/Israel forward for one more year until Passover was celebrated at the temple again and onward. Christ's reference to His flesh allegorically meant that one must totally embrace, consume Christ in everyway. To many, they only wanted to see things in legalistic ways, and could not or would not accept the deeper, and correct meaning.

Christ even said that He spoke in parables that those who truly sought Him would receive the message, and those that were hardened in heart would defy.

Your chair is safe to sit in because you "tried" it; but you initially exercised faith upon sitting in it the first time.....You can't escape that.

So every person who put's that step forward of believing in Christ is also making that step, based on "others" experience, and testimony.....namely the biblical authors and their accounts.

Interestingly, those that have taken that first "sit" have much to say to you and the unbelieving world, as to the reality of Christ in their lives. In fact the reality shows most profoundly in the positive radical changes in their lives........As Christ's life gradually sanctifies the new Christian fullfillment of life, and the end of a vacuu-ous search for meaning of life ceasing to be an issue.

So the chair scenario is applicable.

Also remember that the bible was inspired by God..........through God-inspired authors..........Therefore the words in the bible are Spiritually understood, and that's why the unbeliever struggles with it, and basically casts it aside as a boring read.

Christ Himself said that when one become a true Christian by receiving Christ's Spirit, or the Holy Spirit, they receive a means of discerning the bible in ways that no non-Christian can understand.

The H.S. is working on you J.L. as well as every man and woman on this earth. It is the desire of God that none be lost, but all come to a saving knowledge of Christ, that will engender a desire to seek Him out, and receive His life through God's gracious gift of forgiveness.

Christians will never be understood by those that are not Christians.......Yet many will be very intrigued by the radical positive changes in lives...........As people who were drudges of society, become model citizens, who live by sensitive consciences, and live by a higher calling, that is not a burden, but an incredible adventure.

No, your chair needed it's first sit-down, and it required your trust for you to place your fanny on it.

So you see, you actually "assumed" it was safe on the first sit-down, yet you didn't know for sure...........based on evidences.........like watching it being built, knowing the workmanship characteristics of the maker.............did you?

So you rail on the Christian for put their trust in Christ who is thoroughly described, revealed, in nature, ethics, you name in the bible, but...............oh it's a long time ago, so it's probably not true.

It's amazing how more people believe in Plato's writings about Atlantis, and other great writings, of history of his time...................
YET! The oldest manuscripts of Plato are copies that have thousands of years of gap from when he first wrote his great works. Yes, the venerated Plato's oldest writings are copies made eons after he first wrote them, but they are not questioned..........cause they don't affect the pride and illness mankind's psyche as the bible does.............
******
Christ/God says in the bible that man will "avoid" Him at all cost, because His message cuts like a knife to the very deepest depths of a man's soul, and brings either anger leading to denial/rebellion or conviction leading to repentance, contriteness of heart, and a new clean start at life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake, billions testify to your god? The one that comes from kolob? You sure about that?

And I'd like to see you prove any of the big things in the bible. Please, go ahead.

Poor try, JoLouis. OK, I am not LDS or any type of Mormonism's sects. I am talking about God, not Kolob, or your weird world. You can neither quality or quantify your faith in atheism, JoLouis.

 

[JoLouis]

Jake, billions testify to your god? The one that comes from kolob? You sure about that?

And I'd like to see you prove any of the big things in the bible. Please, go ahead.

Poor try, JoLouis. OK, I am not LDS or any type of Mormonism's sects. I am talking about God, not Kolob, or your weird world. You can neither quality or quantify your faith in atheism, JoLouis.

I'm not an atheist, they're also convinced of something they have no hope of ever proving. I'm agnostic: anything in the universe is possible, but god is not yet proven.
I'm also a vegetarian, so if billions of slobs eat meat, then I'm wrong? (I'll give up the answer to that one: the meat eaters are the ones who are wrong and harming themselves and the planet no matter how badly vegetarians are outnumbered.)

I'm still waiting for you to prove something major from the bible...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake, so the pope, the dalai lama, muslims, the bible and the book of mormons et al are all full of shit and don't really represent god?

I hope you really don't believe what you wrote, because I certainly don't think it and pray you don't. All people, whether they admit or realize, reach for that which is greater than us. You did, too, so don't limit yourself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake, billions testify to your god? The one that comes from kolob? You sure about that?

And I'd like to see you prove any of the big things in the bible. Please, go ahead.

Poor try, JoLouis. OK, I am not LDS or any type of Mormonism's sects. I am talking about God, not Kolob, or your weird world. You can neither quality or quantify your faith in atheism, JoLouis.

I'm not an atheist, they're also convinced of something they have no hope of ever proving. I'm agnostic: anything in the universe is possible, but god is not yet proven.
I'm also a vegetarian, so if billions of slobs eat meat, then I'm wrong? (I'll give up the answer to that one: the meat eaters are the ones who are wrong and harming themselves and the planet no matter how badly vegetarians are outnumbered.)

I'm still waiting for you to prove something major from the bible...

Agnosticism is spiritual cowardice, the easy way. I don't have to prove anything from the Bible. Why would I?

 

[JoLouis]

Poor try, JoLouis. OK, I am not LDS or any type of Mormonism's sects. I am talking about God, not Kolob, or your weird world. You can neither quality or quantify your faith in atheism, JoLouis.

I'm not an atheist, they're also convinced of something they have no hope of ever proving. I'm agnostic: anything in the universe is possible, but god is not yet proven.
I'm also a vegetarian, so if billions of slobs eat meat, then I'm wrong? (I'll give up the answer to that one: the meat eaters are the ones who are wrong and harming themselves and the planet no matter how badly vegetarians are outnumbered.)

I'm still waiting for you to prove something major from the bible...

Agnosticism is spiritual cowardice, the easy way. I don't have to prove anything from the Bible. Why would I?

Cuz you can't, that's why.
I don't see why I'm a coward because I don't see any proof (or need) of a god. You're the coward, you've given up searching and have settled for some shit that doesn't even make any sense. Like: "Jesus died for your sins", that doesn't even make any sense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

See, JoLouis, you ascribe to me your own weakness and cowardice.

Go to, fellow, go to.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Jake, billions testify to your god? The one that comes from kolob? You sure about that?

And I'd like to see you prove any of the big things in the bible. Please, go ahead.

Poor try, JoLouis. OK, I am not LDS or any type of Mormonism's sects. I am talking about God, not Kolob, or your weird world. You can neither quality or quantify your faith in atheism, JoLouis.

I'm not an atheist, they're also convinced of something they have no hope of ever proving. I'm agnostic: anything in the universe is possible, but god is not yet proven.
I'm also a vegetarian, so if billions of slobs eat meat, then I'm wrong? (I'll give up the answer to that one: the meat eaters are the ones who are wrong and harming themselves and the planet no matter how badly vegetarians are outnumbered.)

I'm still waiting for you to prove something major from the bible...

You may find it surprising to note, that while we are not vegetarians in Mormonism, our code of health tells us to eat meat sparingly. Eating healthy has been part of our doctrine since the 1830's