The tits and tats of witnesses, this includes Hunter

[rightwinger]

Is this a Tit for Tat where Democratic witness are forced to testify and Republican witnesses claim executive privilege?

 

[Slade3200]

Dems do realize that witnesses mean BOTH parties are calling witnesses right? Something like, Bolton for Biden, Mik for Whistleblower, etc.

I hear pundits saying that Biden won’t get called because he isn’t relevant to the charges but that argument makes no sense to me as he is at the heart of the accusations. Showing Hunter as corrupt disproves the accusations that Trumps “favor” was politically motivated... it’s Trumps only significant argument!

can somebody make the case for me why they don’t think Hunter would get called?

What does Hunter Biden have to do with Trump abusing his power? Let's say Biden the Junior did work for a corrupt company. What does that have to do with military aid for Ukraine? Do we or do we not have institutions that could perform an actual corruption investigation that doesn't play like a "drug deal"?

Trumps “political motivation” for calling on an investigation into Biden is a major talking point and focus of the articles of impeachment. That makes that a point of contention and thus makes it relevant.

It was political motivated to demand a public announcement of a Biden investigation, not evidence driven. That makes all the difference.

correct, that is the accusation, the counter argument will be that there was evidence to call for the investigation and in the course of presenting their evidence they will call Biden to testify. Do you not think that’s going to happen?

 

[Seawytch]

Dems do realize that witnesses mean BOTH parties are calling witnesses right? Something like, Bolton for Biden, Mik for Whistleblower, etc.

I hear pundits saying that Biden won’t get called because he isn’t relevant to the charges but that argument makes no sense to me as he is at the heart of the accusations. Showing Hunter as corrupt disproves the accusations that Trumps “favor” was politically motivated... it’s Trumps only significant argument!

can somebody make the case for me why they don’t think Hunter would get called?

What does Hunter Biden have to do with Trump abusing his power? Let's say Biden the Junior did work for a corrupt company. What does that have to do with military aid for Ukraine? Do we or do we not have institutions that could perform an actual corruption investigation that doesn't play like a "drug deal"?

Trumps “political motivation” for calling on an investigation into Biden is a major talking point and focus of the articles of impeachment. That makes that a point of contention and thus makes it relevant.

It was political motivated to demand a public announcement of a Biden investigation, not evidence driven. That makes all the difference.

correct, that is the accusation, the counter argument will be that there was evidence to call for the investigation and in the course of presenting their evidence they will call Biden to testify. Do you not think that’s going to happen?

I hope it does. Opens the door to bring all the Trump kids to talk about their potential corruption on record.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Huh?

Biden has nothing to do with Trump's actions. There is nothing Biden could say that would shed any light on what Trump is accused of doing.

Trump is accused of abusing power by asking Ukraine to investigate Biden for political purposes. If Biden was in fact doing something illegal then it is not political purposes anymore but becomes a matter of law enforcement. That make Hunter very relevant to the Reps and be sure it will be the case they will push.

There is absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens. Certainly testimony in this context would not change that.

Any possible corruption on the part of the Bidens does not excuse the actions of Trump, Giuliani or their henchmen.

That is certainly the point the Dems will make but if you think that is going to work to not get Hunter called as a witness and questioned then I think you are mistaken. As I said, he is at the center of trumps case.

No.
The case is made. The Bidens have no active role in that case.
The Bidens are at the center of Trump's excuse. Not his case.

Do you believe that Senators believe that the Bidens would testify to and admit corruption? Of course not. I guarantee they would never be called. Not with a simple majority vote.

We shall see. I don’t see the needed republicans voting for Bolton and not Biden

LOL....
Bolton is a direct witness.

If anyone thought there was anything to the corruption allegations against the Bidens, they would have been gathering that evidence and we would have heard about it. Trump has come up with nothing but his dopey allegation. None of the govt agencies have come up with anything.Barr did nothing. Not one hearing has been held on the subject by any Senate committee.That tells you everything you need to know.
Enabling the lunatic ravings of the president is not a good look for the Senate. They know it.

 

[colfax_m]

It doesn’t. Let’s say a cop doesn’t like someone and he pulls him over for no reason. The cop finds a bag of pot in the back seat. Does that bag of pot justify the cop’s actions?

you are correct, however there was an appearance of impropriety and if crimes get uncovered it’s going to be disastrous to the Dems case. Remember this isn’t a legal court, it is a political impeachment. I think it’s obvious that Trump did this for political purposes but it’s very hard to prove and with enough dirt
thrown at Hunter it is going to swallow up the point the Dems are trying to make. This impeachment is going to be a royal disaster. Both parties are pretty much beyond reproach at this point.

Let’s take a step back and look at the big picture.

Trump is being impeached for pushing a politically motivated investigation of his opponent.

And Republicans are saying that as part of the trial for this high crime and misdemeanor, we should do the investigation that Trump is being impeached for?

It boggles the mind.

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

Hard to argue against that point. Doesn’t make it right.

 

[Slade3200]

Is this a Tit for Tat where Democratic witness are forced to testify and Republican witnesses claim executive privilege?

I’m sure many will claim executive privilege just as Biden may choose to take the 5th... but you can see the shitstorm that would cause. Non answers will be perceived as cover up and guilt

 

[Slade3200]

Dems do realize that witnesses mean BOTH parties are calling witnesses right? Something like, Bolton for Biden, Mik for Whistleblower, etc.

I hear pundits saying that Biden won’t get called because he isn’t relevant to the charges but that argument makes no sense to me as he is at the heart of the accusations. Showing Hunter as corrupt disproves the accusations that Trumps “favor” was politically motivated... it’s Trumps only significant argument!

can somebody make the case for me why they don’t think Hunter would get called?

What does Hunter Biden have to do with Trump abusing his power? Let's say Biden the Junior did work for a corrupt company. What does that have to do with military aid for Ukraine? Do we or do we not have institutions that could perform an actual corruption investigation that doesn't play like a "drug deal"?

Trumps “political motivation” for calling on an investigation into Biden is a major talking point and focus of the articles of impeachment. That makes that a point of contention and thus makes it relevant.

It was political motivated to demand a public announcement of a Biden investigation, not evidence driven. That makes all the difference.

correct, that is the accusation, the counter argument will be that there was evidence to call for the investigation and in the course of presenting their evidence they will call Biden to testify. Do you not think that’s going to happen?

I hope it does. Opens the door to bring all the Trump kids to talk about their potential corruption on record.

No it doesn’t... that is a Tit that’s too far removed

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No it doesn't. Not in any way.

If there was corruption, it wouldnt justify the president doing his job? Lol ok

Investigating corruption is not the job of the president.

He was investigating anything.
Good gawd man.

He was investigating anything.
Good gawd man.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

He wasn't investigating.
Damn phone

LOL...
We know.

 

[Slade3200]

Trump is accused of abusing power by asking Ukraine to investigate Biden for political purposes. If Biden was in fact doing something illegal then it is not political purposes anymore but becomes a matter of law enforcement. That make Hunter very relevant to the Reps and be sure it will be the case they will push.

There is absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens. Certainly testimony in this context would not change that.

Any possible corruption on the part of the Bidens does not excuse the actions of Trump, Giuliani or their henchmen.

That is certainly the point the Dems will make but if you think that is going to work to not get Hunter called as a witness and questioned then I think you are mistaken. As I said, he is at the center of trumps case.

No.
The case is made. The Bidens have no active role in that case.
The Bidens are at the center of Trump's excuse. Not his case.

Do you believe that Senators believe that the Bidens would testify to and admit corruption? Of course not. I guarantee they would never be called. Not with a simple majority vote.

We shall see. I don’t see the needed republicans voting for Bolton and not Biden

LOL....
Bolton is a direct witness.

If anyone thought there was anything to the corruption allegations against the Bidens, they would have been gathering that evidence and we would have heard about it. Trump has come up with nothing but his dopey allegation. None of the govt agencies have come up with anything.Barr did nothing. Not one hearing has been held on the subject by any Senate committee.That tells you everything you need to know.
Enabling the lunatic ravings of the president is not a good look for the Senate. They know it.

Trump has a right to defend his motivations for calling for the investigation. In that defense the Reps will try and show that Biden was as corrupt as possible. To do so they will want to call him as a witness. It’s pretty simple. I still don’t get how you don’t see it

 

[Slade3200]

you are correct, however there was an appearance of impropriety and if crimes get uncovered it’s going to be disastrous to the Dems case. Remember this isn’t a legal court, it is a political impeachment. I think it’s obvious that Trump did this for political purposes but it’s very hard to prove and with enough dirt
thrown at Hunter it is going to swallow up the point the Dems are trying to make. This impeachment is going to be a royal disaster. Both parties are pretty much beyond reproach at this point.

Let’s take a step back and look at the big picture.

Trump is being impeached for pushing a politically motivated investigation of his opponent.

And Republicans are saying that as part of the trial for this high crime and misdemeanor, we should do the investigation that Trump is being impeached for?

It boggles the mind.

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

Hard to argue against that point. Doesn’t make it right.

I agree. I wish we still lived in a time where “right and wrong” still mattered. We are in a team sport spin game with this thing.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Let’s take a step back and look at the big picture.

Trump is being impeached for pushing a politically motivated investigation of his opponent.

And Republicans are saying that as part of the trial for this high crime and misdemeanor, we should do the investigation that Trump is being impeached for?

It boggles the mind.

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

The point will then be made that the Republicans will be doing exactly what the president is accused of doing. Smearing his political opponent with the result of gaining advantage without any evidence of corruption whatsoever.

Public opinion will not favor that play.

Dems won’t favor that play, I agree there, but republicans will favor it, which is why Biden will get called as a witness and his associations will be exploited.

Great. So when nothing nefarious is found but now the Biden name is diminished by the process, they will have accomplished the president's goal.

 

[BlindBoo]

Dems do realize that witnesses mean BOTH parties are calling witnesses right? Something like, Bolton for Biden, Mik for Whistleblower, etc.

I hear pundits saying that Biden won’t get called because he isn’t relevant to the charges but that argument makes no sense to me as he is at the heart of the accusations. Showing Hunter as corrupt disproves the accusations that Trumps “favor” was politically motivated... it’s Trumps only significant argument!

can somebody make the case for me why they don’t think Hunter would get called?

What does Hunter Biden have to do with Trump abusing his power? Let's say Biden the Junior did work for a corrupt company. What does that have to do with military aid for Ukraine? Do we or do we not have institutions that could perform an actual corruption investigation that doesn't play like a "drug deal"?

Trumps “political motivation” for calling on an investigation into Biden is a major talking point and focus of the articles of impeachment. That makes that a point of contention and thus makes it relevant.

It was political motivated to demand a public announcement of a Biden investigation, not evidence driven. That makes all the difference.

correct, that is the accusation, the counter argument will be that there was evidence to call for the investigation and in the course of presenting their evidence they will call Biden to testify. Do you not think that’s going to happen?

So Trump could have submitted evidence of corruption but instead chose to withhold the military aid to get the public announcements he was seeking?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There is absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens. Certainly testimony in this context would not change that.

Any possible corruption on the part of the Bidens does not excuse the actions of Trump, Giuliani or their henchmen.

That is certainly the point the Dems will make but if you think that is going to work to not get Hunter called as a witness and questioned then I think you are mistaken. As I said, he is at the center of trumps case.

No.
The case is made. The Bidens have no active role in that case.
The Bidens are at the center of Trump's excuse. Not his case.

Do you believe that Senators believe that the Bidens would testify to and admit corruption? Of course not. I guarantee they would never be called. Not with a simple majority vote.

We shall see. I don’t see the needed republicans voting for Bolton and not Biden

LOL....
Bolton is a direct witness.

If anyone thought there was anything to the corruption allegations against the Bidens, they would have been gathering that evidence and we would have heard about it. Trump has come up with nothing but his dopey allegation. None of the govt agencies have come up with anything.Barr did nothing. Not one hearing has been held on the subject by any Senate committee.That tells you everything you need to know.
Enabling the lunatic ravings of the president is not a good look for the Senate. They know it.

Trump has a right to defend his motivations for calling for the investigation. In that defense the Reps will try and show that Biden was as corrupt as possible. To do so they will want to call him as a witness. It’s pretty simple. I still don’t get how you don’t see it

I do see it. Your play only works if there were any evidence of corruption at the start. There isn't. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one alleging so.
Trump's defense comes in showing the corruption he is alleging. Do you honestly believe the Bidens will admit to corruption?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Let’s take a step back and look at the big picture.

Trump is being impeached for pushing a politically motivated investigation of his opponent.

And Republicans are saying that as part of the trial for this high crime and misdemeanor, we should do the investigation that Trump is being impeached for?

It boggles the mind.

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

Hard to argue against that point. Doesn’t make it right.

I agree. I wish we still lived in a time where “right and wrong” still mattered. We are in a team sport spin game with this thing.

I agree. I wish we still lived in a time where “right and wrong” still mattered. We are in a team sport spin game with this thing.

And you're spinning furiously.

 

[Slade3200]

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

The point will then be made that the Republicans will be doing exactly what the president is accused of doing. Smearing his political opponent with the result of gaining advantage without any evidence of corruption whatsoever.

Public opinion will not favor that play.

Dems won’t favor that play, I agree there, but republicans will favor it, which is why Biden will get called as a witness and his associations will be exploited.

Great. So when nothing nefarious is found but now the Biden name is diminished by the process, they will have accomplished the president's goal.

Exactly... and Papa Joe could very well get hurt by it. It’s why I’ve been warning about moving on impeachment for months.

 

[Slade3200]

Dems do realize that witnesses mean BOTH parties are calling witnesses right? Something like, Bolton for Biden, Mik for Whistleblower, etc.

I hear pundits saying that Biden won’t get called because he isn’t relevant to the charges but that argument makes no sense to me as he is at the heart of the accusations. Showing Hunter as corrupt disproves the accusations that Trumps “favor” was politically motivated... it’s Trumps only significant argument!

can somebody make the case for me why they don’t think Hunter would get called?

What does Hunter Biden have to do with Trump abusing his power? Let's say Biden the Junior did work for a corrupt company. What does that have to do with military aid for Ukraine? Do we or do we not have institutions that could perform an actual corruption investigation that doesn't play like a "drug deal"?

Trumps “political motivation” for calling on an investigation into Biden is a major talking point and focus of the articles of impeachment. That makes that a point of contention and thus makes it relevant.

It was political motivated to demand a public announcement of a Biden investigation, not evidence driven. That makes all the difference.

correct, that is the accusation, the counter argument will be that there was evidence to call for the investigation and in the course of presenting their evidence they will call Biden to testify. Do you not think that’s going to happen?

So Trump could have submitted evidence of corruption but instead chose to withhold the military aid to get the public announcements he was seeking?

yes

 

[Slade3200]

That is certainly the point the Dems will make but if you think that is going to work to not get Hunter called as a witness and questioned then I think you are mistaken. As I said, he is at the center of trumps case.

No.
The case is made. The Bidens have no active role in that case.
The Bidens are at the center of Trump's excuse. Not his case.

Do you believe that Senators believe that the Bidens would testify to and admit corruption? Of course not. I guarantee they would never be called. Not with a simple majority vote.

We shall see. I don’t see the needed republicans voting for Bolton and not Biden

LOL....
Bolton is a direct witness.

If anyone thought there was anything to the corruption allegations against the Bidens, they would have been gathering that evidence and we would have heard about it. Trump has come up with nothing but his dopey allegation. None of the govt agencies have come up with anything.Barr did nothing. Not one hearing has been held on the subject by any Senate committee.That tells you everything you need to know.
Enabling the lunatic ravings of the president is not a good look for the Senate. They know it.

Trump has a right to defend his motivations for calling for the investigation. In that defense the Reps will try and show that Biden was as corrupt as possible. To do so they will want to call him as a witness. It’s pretty simple. I still don’t get how you don’t see it

I do see it. Your play only works if there were any evidence of corruption at the start. There isn't. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one alleging so.
Trump's defense comes in showing the corruption he is alleging. Do you honestly believe the Bidens will admit to corruption?

first off, it’s not MY play. No I don’t think Biden will admit to anything but I think the Republicans have a narrative they want to push and they will exploit Biden to fit that narrative.

 

[Slade3200]

Close, the republicans don’t think the investigation request was baseless and politically motivated. They want to present their justification for calling on Ukraine to investigate because making a corruption case will show legit motivation and not political which is why trump is being impeached. That’s the center of this conflict. Political theater will take over and the press will run wild with accusations... it’s gonna get ugly

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

Hard to argue against that point. Doesn’t make it right.

I agree. I wish we still lived in a time where “right and wrong” still mattered. We are in a team sport spin game with this thing.

I agree. I wish we still lived in a time where “right and wrong” still mattered. We are in a team sport spin game with this thing.

And you're spinning furiously.

How am I spinning? And why would I spin? I’m far far far from a Trump supporter.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Trump’s motivation can only be informed by information available to him at the time. Any information uncovered after the fact cannot change that.

In a court of law I agree, in the court of public opinion I think that point gets lost and I don’t think it keeps the Reps from steam rolling the attacks on Biden

The point will then be made that the Republicans will be doing exactly what the president is accused of doing. Smearing his political opponent with the result of gaining advantage without any evidence of corruption whatsoever.

Public opinion will not favor that play.

Dems won’t favor that play, I agree there, but republicans will favor it, which is why Biden will get called as a witness and his associations will be exploited.

Great. So when nothing nefarious is found but now the Biden name is diminished by the process, they will have accomplished the president's goal.

Exactly... and Papa Joe could very well get hurt by it. It’s why I’ve been warning about moving on impeachment for months.

The political antics of the weak, unprincipled Republicans is not a sufficient barrier to pursuing the truth of the actions by the most corrupt president ever. Such tactics will be seen as abhorrent by the majority of America.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No.
The case is made. The Bidens have no active role in that case.
The Bidens are at the center of Trump's excuse. Not his case.

Do you believe that Senators believe that the Bidens would testify to and admit corruption? Of course not. I guarantee they would never be called. Not with a simple majority vote.

We shall see. I don’t see the needed republicans voting for Bolton and not Biden

LOL....
Bolton is a direct witness.

If anyone thought there was anything to the corruption allegations against the Bidens, they would have been gathering that evidence and we would have heard about it. Trump has come up with nothing but his dopey allegation. None of the govt agencies have come up with anything.Barr did nothing. Not one hearing has been held on the subject by any Senate committee.That tells you everything you need to know.
Enabling the lunatic ravings of the president is not a good look for the Senate. They know it.

Trump has a right to defend his motivations for calling for the investigation. In that defense the Reps will try and show that Biden was as corrupt as possible. To do so they will want to call him as a witness. It’s pretty simple. I still don’t get how you don’t see it

I do see it. Your play only works if there were any evidence of corruption at the start. There isn't. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one alleging so.
Trump's defense comes in showing the corruption he is alleging. Do you honestly believe the Bidens will admit to corruption?

first off, it’s not MY play. No I don’t think Biden will admit to anything but I think the Republicans have a narrative they want to push and they will exploit Biden to fit that narrative.

Don't forget that will be determined by a simple majority vote. I think they won't get it if they play too dirty.