Zone1 The term "Personal relationship with Jesus" is not in the Bible

[ninja007]

There are a lot of things that are considered part of Christianity that aren't in the bible.

The rapture, for example, is never mentioned.

There is no place in the bible where is says that Jesus will com back and call every single devout christian to heave and leave everyone else.

There is a part where he calls all of the dead from before his return.

In fact, the bible clearly states that the "great tribulation" which is supposed to happen AFTER the "raptire" wlll rest the faith of the devout. How is that supposed to happen if all of the devout are already in heaven?

PEOPLE get saved after the rapture.

 

[BULLDOG]

There are a lot of things that are considered part of Christianity that aren't in the bible.

The rapture, for example, is never mentioned.

There is no place in the bible where is says that Jesus will com back and call every single devout christian to heave and leave everyone else.

There is a part where he calls all of the dead from before his return.

In fact, the bible clearly states that the "great tribulation" which is supposed to happen AFTER the "raptire" wlll rest the faith of the devout. How is that supposed to happen if all of the devout are already in heaven?

All that is just stuff that people made up, and wanted to be true. You are certainly allowed to believe as much of it as you want, but don't try to pretend it's in the Bible, because it's not.

 

[Meriweather]

The rapture, for example, is never mentioned.

"Rapture" as we know it today, was the invention of John Darby in the 1830s.

 

[Meriweather]

All that is just stuff that people made up, and wanted to be true. You are certainly allowed to believe as much of it as you want, but don't try to pretend it's in the Bible, because it's not.

Not necessarily. As I recall, early Church Fathers noted that the faithful and gone through and escaped pre-tribulation, and were waiting the coming of Christ.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Are you trying to suggest that the Apostles held the role of your Priests?

If you had known one thing about Catholicism, you would know that St Peter and the Apostles, after some of the latter died, chose successors aka Bishops who ordained priests.. This has been going on in the Church Christ founded for over 2000 years --oh, wait... 1958 years, to be more precise (Protestants have a 500 year abyss between them and the True Church, thanks to the heretic Luther [unless they begin to learn about the TRUE Catholic Church as opposed to the fake Vatican II "church" so called)

 

[BS Filter]

If you had known one thing about Catholicism, you would know that St Peter and the Apostles, after some of the latter died, chose successors aka Bishops who ordained priests.. This has been going on in the Church Christ founded for over 2000 years (Protestants have a 500 year abyss between them and the True Church, thanks to the heretic Luther [unless they begin to learn about the TRUE Catholic Church as opposed to the fake Vatican II "church" so called)

When did the Catholics begin to believe about praying to Mary and that she ascended to Heaven?

 

[notmyfault2020]

When did the Catholics begin to believe about praying to Mary and that she ascended to Heaven?

I believe from the very Beginning. Certainly the Apostles prayed WITH Mary. She was there w/ them in the Upper Room when the Holy Spirit descended upon them all.

This is what Catholics do when they pray the rosary: They pray WITH Mary, not so much TO her, as the protestants erroneously believe and accuse...

 

[BS Filter]

I believe from the very Beginning. Certainly the Apostles prayed WITH Mary. She was there w/ them in the Upper Room when the Holy Spirit descended upon them all.

This is what Catholics do when they pray the rosary: They pray WITH Mary, not so much TO her, as the protestants erroneously believe and accuse...

If you pray with the dead, isn't that kinda like occultism?

 

[notmyfault2020]

If you pray with the dead, isn't that kinda like occultism?

One could argue that Jesus is "dead" also, couldn't you?

Why do you pray to a person who is dead? Again, Protestants accuse Catholics of the same thing they do.

 

[Meriweather]

When did the Catholics begin to believe about praying to Mary and that she ascended to Heaven?

When did people begin asking others to pray for them or join them in prayer? It probably began when Jesus said, "When two or more of you are gathered..."

Early Church Fathers (Eusebius being one) believed in the Assumption, as did many in the early Church. Some believe she died about 63 AD, and that all the Apostles (except James) were there. It appears the Assumption was talked about early on, so the argument over the Assumption can be whether it happened or whether it became an early legend. Church Fathers seemed to accept the Assumption, as while there was talk about it, there was no argument over it.

 

[Meriweather]

If you pray with the dead, isn't that kinda like occultism?

"...kinda like" being the key words here. Certainly the occult involves the supernatural, as does prayer. The difference is that prayer is a spiritual experience as well.

 

[BS Filter]

One could argue that Jesus is "dead" also, couldn't you?

Why do you pray to a person who is dead? Again, Protestants accuse Catholics of the same thing they do.

No, Jesus isn't dead. He rose from the dead and walked and talked with his disciples according to the Scriptures. The Scriptures also are clear that he was witnessed ascending to heaven. The Scriptures say nothing about praying with Mary or her ascending to heaven.

 

[notmyfault2020]

When did people begin asking others to pray for them or join them in prayer? It probably began when Jesus said, "When two or more of you are gathered..."

Early Church Fathers (Eusebius being one) believed in the Assumption, as did many in the early Church. Some believe she died about 63 AD, and that all the Apostles (except James) were there. It appears the Assumption was talked about early on, so the argument over the Assumption can be whether it happened or whether it became an early legend. Church Fathers seemed to accept the Assumption, as while there was talk about it, there was no argument over it.

I think you should clarify that you are speaking of Mary's assumption. I didn't figure that out until the end of your post, and then barely. Some may think you are speaking of Christ's assumption, though Catholics don't call it that

 

[notmyfault2020]

No, Jesus isn't dead. He rose from the dead and walked and talked with his disciples according to the Scriptures. The Scriptures also are clear that he was witnessed ascending to heaven. The Scriptures say nothing about praying with Mary or her ascending to heaven.

So you think once a person is dead, even someone who loves Christ (and presumably Mary loved Him more than anyone save God)

that person is "DEAD"-- doesn't exist anymore!

Wow... You don't believe in an afterlife... or Heaven. What freaky religion do you adhere to?

 

[BS Filter]

When did people begin asking others to pray for them or join them in prayer? It probably began when Jesus said, "When two or more of you are gathered..."

Early Church Fathers (Eusebius being one) believed in the Assumption, as did many in the early Church. Some believe she died about 63 AD, and that all the Apostles (except James) were there. It appears the Assumption was talked about early on, so the argument over the Assumption can be whether it happened or whether it became an early legend. Church Fathers seemed to accept the Assumption, as while there was talk about it, there was no argument over it.

Ok, but there is no Scriptural authority for it.

 

[BS Filter]

"...kinda like" being the key words here. Certainly the occult involves the supernatural, as does prayer. The difference is that prayer is a spiritual experience as well.

I don't think praying with the dead is. Why not pray with Abraham or Moses?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Ok, but there is no Scriptural authority for it.

Why do protestants think that all of God can be handily shoved into a finite BOOK?

That Book (the Bible) itself says that:

if all Jesus did and said were written down, the whole world could not contain it.

 

[BS Filter]

So you think once a person is dead, even someone who loves Christ (and presumably Mary loved Him more than anyone save God)

that person is "DEAD"-- doesn't exist anymore!

Wow... You don't believe in an afterlife... or Heaven. What freaky religion do you adhere to?

So why not pray with Abraham. Moses, or Isaac? What's special about Mary that gives your prayer a special favor with God?

 

[notmyfault2020]

I like how BSF

has been totally side-stepping my comments in #34

He doesn't believe in Heaven. Is he a JW? or a member of some weird cult unknown to just about all of us?

 

[Meriweather]

I think you should clarify that you are speaking of Mary's assumption. I didn't figure that out until the end of your post, and then barely. Some may think you are speaking of Christ's assumption, though Catholics don't call it that

And I think you should write your own posts and leave mine to me. You will notice I always quote the part of a post to which I am responding. It is at the top of my post. Start there. I am tired of you telling me what I "really" meant or intended or should do. That is on me.