The Stolen Land Of Iran

[Osomir]

Thanks. I'll take the Iranian Zoroastrian congress over your crap source.

Once again, that was your "crap source" there bud, as was already pointed out

Nice that your admitting your low standards for them though. It's part of the path towards acceptance.

 

[Osomir]

Also, being honest with yourself for the fifth time: have you honestly EVER actually read a book on Islamic history?

I know enough, from living with Muslims all my life, and listening to their garbage propaganda. One of the themes were what you just stated, all these people "willingly converted". Maybe you'd have better luck at your local mosque about how great Islam was, and how all these people accepted it with open arms? Just saying.

So in other words no? Does it bother you at all that you are so sure of yourself when you have never actually researched the position that you are trying to take, aside from a recent google search?

Doesn't the dishonesty and low standards bother you at all? Honestly where is the self-respect?

 

[Roudy]

Thanks. I'll take the Iranian Zoroastrian congress over your crap source.

Once again, that was your "crap source" there bud, as was already pointed out

Nice that your admitting your low standards for them though. It's part of the path towards acceptance.

You're dreaming. This is the truth:

When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates.[1] By the order of another Arab ruler (Ghotaibeh ibn-e Moslem) in Khwarezmia, those who were literate with all the historians, writers and Mobeds were massacred and their books burned so that after one generation the people were illiterate.[2] Other libraries in Ray and Khorassan received the same treatment and the famous international University of Gondishapour declined and eventually abandoned, and its library and books vanished. Ibn-e Khaldoun, the famous Islamic historian summarizes the whole anihilation and conflagration:” where is the Persian science that Omar ordered to be destroyed?” Only few books survived, because the Persian scholars translated them into Arabic.

To conquer Persia and force Islam, the Arab invaders resorted to many inhumane actions including massacre, mass enslavement of men, women and children, and imposition of heavy taxes (Jezyeh=Jizya) on those who did not convert. By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed.[3] The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day, yet our books of history have been silent about it. In recent years however, disenchanted Iranian scholars have been writing about the blood mills and in fact this event has been reported by our historians of the Islamic era. On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4] Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute. They even named the Iranian converts “Mavali” or “liberated slaves”. According to the Arab classification, this caste could not receive wages or booties of the war; they were to be protected and at times rewarded by their protectors. Mavalis were not allowed to ride horses and sometimes they were given away as gifts. One of the Umayyad Caliphs was quoted “milk the Persians and once their milk dries, suck their blood”.[8] With so much atrocities committed in the name of religion, how much truly the Arab invaders knew about Islam? By the order of Omar 1000 warriors who knew one Ayah of the Koran were to be selected to receive the booties of the war. But the problem was that among the Arab army there were not even 1,000 soldiers who could read one Ayah.[9]

 

[Osomir]

Once again, where is your self-respect?

So you are admitting that your other sources aren't accurate? But you expect me to believe that THIS one which you now support is indisputable? All after admitting that you've never actually read a single book on Islamic history? Really?

 

[Roudy]

Also, being honest with yourself for the fifth time: have you honestly EVER actually read a book on Islamic history?

I know enough, from living with Muslims all my life, and listening to their garbage propaganda. One of the themes were what you just stated, all these people "willingly converted". Maybe you'd have better luck at your local mosque about how great Islam was, and how all these people accepted it with open arms? Just saying.

So in other words no? Does it bother you at all that you are so sure of yourself when you have never actually researched the position that you are trying to take, aside from a recent google search?

Doesn't the dishonesty and low standards bother you at all? Honestly where is the self-respect?

The google search was used to pull up facts which I know are true, based on my life experience and knowledge. You asked for sources and I provided them. Apparently you can't handle a source which makes you look like an ignorant fool. Not my fault.

On the other hand you have nothing but your claim and "request for a debate". LOLOLOL

 

[Roudy]

Once again, where is your self-respect?

So you are admitting that your other sources aren't accurate? But you expect me to believe that THIS one which you now support is indisputable? All after admitting that you've never actually read a single book on Islamic history? Really?

How did you conclude that I claimed my "other sources are inaccurate". All of them validate what I said, to one extent or another. I just picked this one, and you can't respond other than use diversionary tactics. Again, refute what part of this is untrue or false or get off the pot:

When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates.[1] By the order of another Arab ruler (Ghotaibeh ibn-e Moslem) in Khwarezmia, those who were literate with all the historians, writers and Mobeds were massacred and their books burned so that after one generation the people were illiterate.[2] Other libraries in Ray and Khorassan received the same treatment and the famous international University of Gondishapour declined and eventually abandoned, and its library and books vanished. Ibn-e Khaldoun, the famous Islamic historian summarizes the whole anihilation and conflagration:” where is the Persian science that Omar ordered to be destroyed?” Only few books survived, because the Persian scholars translated them into Arabic.

To conquer Persia and force Islam, the Arab invaders resorted to many inhumane actions including massacre, mass enslavement of men, women and children, and imposition of heavy taxes (Jezyeh=Jizya) on those who did not convert. By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed.[3] The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day, yet our books of history have been silent about it. In recent years however, disenchanted Iranian scholars have been writing about the blood mills and in fact this event has been reported by our historians of the Islamic era. On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4] Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute. They even named the Iranian converts “Mavali” or “liberated slaves”. According to the Arab classification, this caste could not receive wages or booties of the war; they were to be protected and at times rewarded by their protectors. Mavalis were not allowed to ride horses and sometimes they were given away as gifts. One of the Umayyad Caliphs was quoted “milk the Persians and once their milk dries, suck their blood”.[8] With so much atrocities committed in the name of religion, how much truly the Arab invaders knew about Islam? By the order of Omar 1000 warriors who knew one Ayah of the Koran were to be selected to receive the booties of the war. But the problem was that among the Arab army there were not even 1,000 soldiers who could read one Ayah.[9]
__________________

 

[Osomir]

The google search was used to pull up facts which I know are true, based on my life experience and knowledge. You asked for sources and I provided them. Apparently you can't handle a source which makes you look like an ignorant fool. Not my fault.

On the other hand you have nothing but your claim and "request for a debate". LOLOLOL

Once again, where is your self-respect?

So you are admitting that your other sources aren't accurate? But you expect me to believe that THIS one which you now support is indisputable? All after admitting that you've never actually read a single book on Islamic history? Really?

And what Islamic country were you raised in that has made you an expert on these things despite no education on the subject?

 

[Osomir]

How did you conclude that I claimed my "other sources are inaccurate". All of them validate what I said, to one extent or another.

You called your own source that I used against you crap and inaccurate. Do you think that of all of your sources? Is that the standard that you generally have for your sources when using them?

 

[Roudy]

Once again, where is your self-respect?

So you are admitting that your other sources aren't accurate? But you expect me to believe that THIS one which you now support is indisputable? All after admitting that you've never actually read a single book on Islamic history? Really?

And here is your own source claiming what I just said, so get lost, YOU HAVE NOTHING:

Widespread conversion began, however, after his demise, with the Muslim military campaigns that resulted in the destruction of the Sasanian empire. In some cases the acceptance of Islam by Persian soldiers followed immediately on their defeat in battle, and cannot therefore have involved any substantial interiorization of the faith.

 

[Osomir]

Take me up on my offer for a formal debate / ban bet and I'll gladly take the time to quote several dozen books and sources.

 

[Osomir]

And here is your own source claiming what I just said, so get lost, YOU HAVE NOTHING:

Widespread conversion began, however, after his demise, with the Muslim military campaigns that resulted in the destruction of the Sasanian empire. In some cases the acceptance of Islam by Persian soldiers followed immediately on their defeat in battle, and cannot therefore have involved any substantial interiorization of the faith.

That doesn't support your argument at all. In fact it supports what I have been saying in this entire thread, that the Arab Empire used the Sassanian Empires own Iraqi levies against them in the invasion of Iran which completely destroys your earlier assertion that the Arabs killed everyone and destroyed everything.

 

[Roudy]

Oso-stupid's source:

IRAN ix. RELIGIONS IN IRAN (2) Islam in Iran ? Encyclopaedia Iranica

Widespread conversion began, however, after his demise, with the Muslim military campaigns that resulted in the destruction of the Sasanian empire. In some cases the acceptance of Islam by Persian soldiers followed immediately on their defeat in battle, and cannot therefore have involved any substantial interiorization of the faith.

 

[Roudy]

Take me up on my offer for a formal debate / ban bet and I'll gladly take the time to quote several dozen books and sources.

Oh you don't have them now. You'll have to make it up, er look it up, I mean find it . I understand.

 

[Osomir]

Oso-stupid's source:

That was your source there champ

 

[Roudy]

And here is your own source claiming what I just said, so get lost, YOU HAVE NOTHING:

Widespread conversion began, however, after his demise, with the Muslim military campaigns that resulted in the destruction of the Sasanian empire. In some cases the acceptance of Islam by Persian soldiers followed immediately on their defeat in battle, and cannot therefore have involved any substantial interiorization of the faith.

That doesn't support your argument at all. In fact it supports what I have been saying in this entire thread, that the Arab Empire used the Sassanian Empires own Iraqi levies against them in the invasion of Iran which completely destroys your earlier assertion that the Arabs killed everyone and destroyed everything.

No? The soldiers of the nation got on their knees as the Arab swords were about come down on their heads and converted to Islam. Then they were sent home to their people and families, who naturally fell in line "willingly" (or face the consequences). Ha ha ha.

 

[Osomir]

Take me up on my offer for a formal debate / ban bet and I'll gladly take the time to quote several dozen books and sources.

Oh you don't have them now. You'll have to make it up, er look it up, I mean find it . I understand.

I have them. Unlike you I did my research long before jumping into this thread. But why spend hours typing them up from the book when you just ignore things? Hence why a formal debate setting would be ideal, in that setting if you ignore them you lose. The ban bet would be to see how confident you actually are in your own argument.

I'm obviously comfortable enough with it otherwise I wouldn't be offering. You're the hold out here.

 

[Roudy]

Oso-stupid's source:

That was your source there champ

your own source

 

[Osomir]

No? The soldiers of the nation got on their knees as the Arab swords were about come down on their heads and converted to Islam. Then they were sent home to their people and families, who naturally fell in line "willingly" (or face the consequences). Ha ha ha.

The military of the Arab Empire didn't live in civilian cities in Iraq, they lived in garrison towns. This is why you need to actually read a book on the subject, because you keep getting basics incorrect.

 

[Roudy]

Take me up on my offer for a formal debate / ban bet and I'll gladly take the time to quote several dozen books and sources.

Oh you don't have them now. You'll have to make it up, er look it up, I mean find it . I understand.

I have them. Unlike you I did my research long before jumping into this thread. But why spend hours typing them up from the book when you just ignore things? Hence why a formal debate setting would be ideal, in that setting if you ignore them you lose. The ban bet would be to see how confident you actually are in your own argument.

I'm obviously comfortable enough with it otherwise I wouldn't be offering. You're the hold out here.

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

 

[Osomir]

Oso-stupid's source:

That was your source there champ

your own source

It was literally the first source that you used outside of wikipedia: http://www.usmessageboard.com/middle-east-general/312066-the-stolen-land-of-iran-5.html#post7818550

Do you not even know what sources you have been using? Really?