The Stolen Land Of Iran

[Osomir]

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

 

[Osomir]

Are you comfortable enough with your argument for a formal debate or not?

 

[Roudy]

That was your source there champ

your own source

It was literally the first source that you used outside of wikipedia: http://www.usmessageboard.com/middle-east-general/312066-the-stolen-land-of-iran-5.html#post7818550

Do you not even know what sources you have been using? Really?

Dude you lost the debate with your first ignorant statement "Iranians willingly converted to Islam".

Found any of those books yet? Ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

Are you comfortable enough with your argument for a formal debate or not?

I have better things to do but laugh at morons all day on an anonymous Internet board.

Part of the day, I'm okay with it, and that's what I'm doing right now.

 

[Roudy]

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

You have no sources. The one source you used contradicted itself. All you have done is criticize my legitimate sources. That's what people who have nothing usually do. Oh I forgot, you have these books you studied at the mosque which showed you how peaceful and impressive Islam was that all these people just willingly converted to it. Is that right?

No, Muslims never invaded, Jihaded, or forced anybody into conversion. They just waved their peaceful sword I mean wand and POOF, everybody fell in love with Islam!

 

[Hollie]

Aw jeeze man. You gotta be kidding. You see, Zoroastrianism is a religion. The major religion of the indigenous Persions. However, Persia WAS A CULTURE. Until the Muslim invasion. And just look at the culture of Iran Versus that of Persia. What a pity, don't you agree?

Not in the slightest, the people of Iran are doing MUCH better today than they used to under the Sassanian Empire.

Ha ha ha. You don't talk to Iranians much do you? Other than a collapsed economy and currency due to harsh sanctions and corruption, bribery, theft, and cronyism among the ruling Mullahs, oppression and strict adherence to Islamic Shariah law, lack of basic freedoms and human rights..,things are going really well for Iranians.

OMG the ignorance is astounding.

In addition to the social issues created by the corrupt mullocrats, Iran is suffering from a notorious drug abuse problem

Iran's hidden scourge: widespread drug abuse at all levels of society - The Globe and Mail


All is not goat's milk and pistachio nuts in the happy-fun land of the mullocracy.

 

[Roudy]

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

Surely of you are so sure about this willing conversion of Iranians into Islam, you'd be able to find something online to support this assertion?

What's wrong with this source?

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland | CAIS©


The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland

By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian
Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996
and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001

 

[Osomir]

Dude you lost the debate with your first ignorant statement "Iranians willingly converted to Islam".

Heh, let's recap; you:

1.) Confused Persia's ethnic and religious demographics

2.) Made the ridiculous assertion that the Islamic invasion killed everyone and destroyed everything only to later argue directly against that.

3.) Confused invasion with forced conversion.

4.) Didn't know that the Persian language was used in administration in the region under Arab rule.

5.) Didn't know that the military forces were housed in garrison towns and not in civilian towns.

6.) Admitted to having never even read a single book on Islamic history

7.) Argued against your own sources

8.) Chickened out when it came to the formal debate and ban bet challenge

9.) Didn't even know about Orientalists.

You're not performing very strongly here, and the desperation showed itself all the more strongly when you tried to accuse me of being a secret Muslim.

 

[Osomir]

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

Surely of you are so sure about this willing conversion of Iranians into Islam, you'd be able to find something online to support this assertion?

What's wrong with this source?

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland | CAIS©


The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland

By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian
Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996
and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001

So not only have you never read a book on Islamic history (as you admitted to) you apparently never even read the thread. I never suggested that there was no persecution of Zoroastrians in Iran by the invading armies. In fact I mentioned it way before you did in the previous discussion. I'm not sure what argument you think that you're "winning" but it isn't one that I'm a part of. But hey, go you.

 

[MJB12741]

For awhile you showed a slight knowledge of Persian history but now you have removed any semblance of credibility. You see, it was during the Sassanid period that Zoroastrianism was declared the one & only official religion of Persia. Are you not even aware of the edict of Ardeshar I? Seriously, like I said previously, you really should bone up on Persian history if we are to carry on this discussion. Thank you.

The Iranian History Article :Zoroastrianism Announced Official State Religion

You're not sure? Well you made the false claim that Muslim Arabs didn't force Iranian Zoroastrians into Islam by invasion and aggression. I'm glad we settled that one. Perhaps while we're at it you can also admit that is how most of the countries that are Muslim today became so, at the tip of the "peaceful" Sword of Islam.

Invasion isn't the same thing as forced conversion, and most of the Sassanian Empire wasn't Zoroastrian. Just like most of the Sassanian Empire wasn't Persian.

 

[Osomir]

For awhile you showed a slight knowledge of Persian history but now you have removed any semblance of credibility. You see, it was during the Sassanid period that Zoroastrianism was declared the one & only official religion of Persia. Are you not even aware of the edict of Ardeshar I? Seriously, like I said previously, you really should bone up on Persian history if we are to carry on this discussion. Thank you.

So much for your notion of a tolerant Sassanian empire then yeah?

But seriously, the suggestion that Zoroastrianism was declared an official religion doesn't make everyone in the empire Zoroastrian. Once again, the empires most populated province (Iraq) was predominately Christian and Jewish; not Zoroastrian and such groups were largely left to religiously govern themselves.

What you also just touched on though which you previously vehemently denied before, was the existence of a social caste system, which, if you recall, I already stated the Zoroastrian priest class as part of.

 

[MJB12741]

You have presented an excellent source on Persian history & the religion of the Mazdayasnians before & after the reforms of Zarathustra on Zoroastrianism. Dr. Daryoush Jahanian was born in Tehran & founded the Fravahar Foundation still going strong today among even Muslim Iranians who want Iran to return to the glory & greatness of what was Zoroastrian Persia before the Islamic invasion & conquest. I have other works by him as well as what you have presented here.

You have nothing. Books are available online. Checkmate.

Goodbye.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

Surely of you are so sure about this willing conversion of Iranians into Islam, you'd be able to find something online to support this assertion?

What's wrong with this source?

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland | CAIS©


The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland

By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian
Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996
and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001

 

[Osomir]

You have presented an excellent source on Persian history & the religion of the Mazdayasnians before & after the reforms of Zarathustra on Zoroastrianism. Dr. Daryoush Jahanian was born in Tehran & founded the Fravahar Foundation still going strong today among even Muslim Iranians who want Iran to return to the glory & greatness of what was Zoroastrian Persia before the Islamic invasion & conquest. I have other works by him as well as what you have presented here.

Not sure how you could pretend to be well versed in Persian history when you didn't know that Iraq under Sassanian rule was predominately Christian.

 

[MJB12741]

Are you daft? NEVER did I present a notion of a "tolerant Sassanian Empire." In fact, if you care to go back through the threads of our discussion you will find that it was I who stated that under the Achamenids & Arascids, Zoroastrianism was the most ethical, tolerant & advanced religion in the world at that time. And only under the Sassanian rule of Ardashir I & Shapur I did it become intolerant of other faiths.

So tell us, do you have any idea why the change? Once you see why this change, then I would like to continue our discussion.

For awhile you showed a slight knowledge of Persian history but now you have removed any semblance of credibility. You see, it was during the Sassanid period that Zoroastrianism was declared the one & only official religion of Persia. Are you not even aware of the edict of Ardeshar I? Seriously, like I said previously, you really should bone up on Persian history if we are to carry on this discussion. Thank you.

So much for your notion of a tolerant Sassanian empire then yeah?

But seriously, the suggestion that Zoroastrianism was declared an official religion doesn't make everyone in the empire Zoroastrian. Once again, the empires most populated province (Iraq) was predominately Christian and Jewish; not Zoroastrian and such groups were largely left to religiously govern themselves.

What you also just touched on though which you previously vehemently denied before, was the existence of a social caste system, which, if you recall, I already stated the Zoroastrian priest class as part of.

 

[Osomir]

Are you daft? NEVER did I present a notion of a "tolerant Sassanian Empire." In fact, if you care to go back through the threads of our discussion you will find that it was I who stated that under the Achamenids & Arascids, Zoroastrianism was the most ethical, tolerant & advanced religion in the world at that time. And only under the Sassanian rule of Ardashir I & Shapur I did it become intolerant of other faiths.

So tell us, do you have any idea why the change? Once you see why this change, then I would like to continue our discussion.

The suggestion that Zoroastrianism was declared an official religion doesn't make everyone in the empire Zoroastrian. Once again, the empires most populated province (Iraq) was predominately Christian and Jewish; not Zoroastrian and such groups were largely left to religiously govern themselves.

What you also just touched on though which you previously vehemently denied before, was the existence of a social caste system, which, if you recall, I already stated the Zoroastrian priest class as part of.

 

[Roudy]

Dude you lost the debate with your first ignorant statement "Iranians willingly converted to Islam".

Heh, let's recap; you:

1.) Confused Persia's ethnic and religious demographics.

2.) Made the ridiculous assertion that the Islamic invasion killed everyone and destroyed everything only to later argue directly against that.

3.) Confused invasion with forced conversion.

4.) Didn't know that the Persian language was used in administration in the region under Arab rule.

5.) Didn't know that the military forces were housed in garrison towns and not in civilian towns.

6.) Admitted to having never even read a single book on Islamic history

7.) Argued against your own sources

8.) Chickened out when it came to the formal debate and ban bet challenge

9.) Didn't even know about Orientalists.

You're not performing very strongly here, and the desperation showed itself all the more strongly when you tried to accuse me of being a secret Muslim.

Here's another recap, you just made up a whole lot of claims I never made, and misrepresented the rest. I'm not gong to argue all bullshit and false claims brought forward by an ignoramus who doesn't know what he's taking about.

Look, I was born and raised in Iran and my family comes from Iraq, in fact my father knew most of the Koran by heart. I know six languages 4 of them fluently. I am more familiar with Iranian and Middle Eastern history and culture than you ever could be. In fact that's the first thing they teach you in primary school in Iran, The country's magnificent history.

The great thing about the Internet is you get this morons impostors who think they're fooling anybody until someone's shows them up.

I ask you again, where is your source that Iranians weren't forced into Islam by invading Arab Jihadists? Show up or shut up.

 

[Roudy]

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I already quoted direct passages from books that aren't available online for other posters in this thread. Though I'm not sure what their online availability has to do with anything. I could use either. That's one of the nice things about actually having sources outside of google.

Surely of you are so sure about this willing conversion of Iranians into Islam, you'd be able to find something online to support this assertion?

What's wrong with this source?

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland | CAIS©


The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland

By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian
Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996
and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001

So not only have you never read a book on Islamic history (as you admitted to) you apparently never even read the thread. I never suggested that there was no persecution of Zoroastrians in Iran by the invading armies. In fact I mentioned it way before you did in the previous discussion. I'm not sure what argument you think that you're "winning" but it isn't one that I'm a part of. But hey, go you.

You keep changing your positions and lying, at the end of the day you're just another fulla shit bullshit artist.

You first claimed there was no Arab invasion, then you said yes to invasion but no to forced conversion (as if there is any such thing because the main purpose of the Arab invasions and conquests WERE TO SPREAD ISLAM), after being cornered you claimed "persecution is the same as coercion", then I showed you clear persecution if not slaughter of Zoroastrians to which you said "no persecution, because persecution equals coercion", and now you're claiming that persecution isn't the same as coercion? Ha ha ha.

Sounds to me like you're a Muslim bullshit artist who doesn't know the true history of the region that keeps embarrassing himself by making totally inaccurate claims and then having to backtrack and lie just to make Islam look like this noble religion that people willingly converted into.

Let's see, was it Taquiyah that allows Muslims to lie and deceive non Muslims in the name of Islam?

Do I have you covered, Abdul, Mr. "Expert" in Islam Orientalist who knows jackshit? LOLOLOL

 

[Osomir]

You first claimed there was no Arab invasion

Link to said post?

Then you said yes to invasion but no to forced conversion (as if there is any such thing because the main purpose of the Arab invasions and conquests WERE to spread Islam),

Except I had already mentioned persecution against Zoroastrians Buddhists and Hindus long beforehand

after being cornered you claimed "persecution is the same as coercion",

It is the same. You were the one who was desperately trying to discredit your own source, I was merely pointing out the poor quality of your sources.

then I showed you clear persecution if not slaughter of Zoroastrians to which you said "no persecution, because persecution equals coercion", and now you're claiming that persecution isn't the same as coercion? Ha ha ha.

This part doesn't even make any sense given our discussion.

Sounds to me like you're a Muslim bullshit artist who doesn't know the true history of the region that keeps embarrassing himself by making totally inaccurate claims and then having to backtrack and lie just to make Islam look like this noble religion that people willingly converted into.

Then why are you so scared of a formal debate?

 

[Roudy]

For awhile you showed a slight knowledge of Persian history but now you have removed any semblance of credibility. You see, it was during the Sassanid period that Zoroastrianism was declared the one & only official religion of Persia. Are you not even aware of the edict of Ardeshar I? Seriously, like I said previously, you really should bone up on Persian history if we are to carry on this discussion. Thank you.

The Iranian History Article :Zoroastrianism Announced Official State Religion

You're not sure? Well you made the false claim that Muslim Arabs didn't force Iranian Zoroastrians into Islam by invasion and aggression. I'm glad we settled that one. Perhaps while we're at it you can also admit that is how most of the countries that are Muslim today became so, at the tip of the "peaceful" Sword of Islam.

Invasion isn't the same thing as forced conversion, and most of the Sassanian Empire wasn't Zoroastrian. Just like most of the Sassanian Empire wasn't Persian.

MJ the guy made up stuff and now that he's proven himself ignorant and liar he keeps moving the bar and making up more unbelievable outrageous crap. All the while he has showing NOTHING to substantiate his claims, his proof is in these "books" that he doesn't even know their titles, he has to look it up. Ha ha ha

 

[Osomir]

MJ the guy made up stuff and now that he's proven himself ignorant and liar he keeps moving the bar and making up more unbelievable outrageous crap. All the while he has showing NOTHING to substantiate his claims, his proof is in these "books" that he doesn't even know their titles, he has to look it up. Ha ha ha

I already utilized a book source in my discussion with MJB there champ It might help you to actually read the thread.