The sin of gluttony

[Iceweasel]

Christian hating is very fashionable these days. It's a political deal. Other religions will be attacked when it's convenient.

Nonsense.

It’s the ignorance and hate being expressed by many Christians using their faith as ‘justification’ that’s being appropriately denounced, having nothing to do with the faith or its adherents.

Have you read about Islam?

No, they're attacking Christians because they are cowards. They know Christians turn the other cheek while Muslims would kill them.

How is that attacking Christianity? I went to church for over 20 years and can say with certainty that some of the beliefs are hypocritical and the gluttony issue is one of them. A fat preacher telling you smoking is a sin is a classic example. That's got nothing to do with Islam. If it makes you feel better I'd rather be told I'm sinning than get my head sawn off.

 

[HenryBHough]

All this yammer is making me hungry!

 

[SmedlyButler]

Seems to think Jesus Christ's mission was to establish a new religion. One that was more "palatable". I don't know what sect she (or he?) belongs to but this has been a common false teaching by "Christian" preachers for at least 1900 years. It's quite simple, no one can give us a quote from the bible that excuses anyone from following Old Testament laws. Mark warned about hypocrites who try to replace the Word of God with human ideas;

Mark 6:10 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

Mark even reminded followers that God's laws were harsh;

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death".

Peter again had a warning about "Christians" making up a "new" religion. So when you "Christians" sit in church on Sunday and your touchy-feely religion makes you feel all warm and fuzzy remember what is being fed you is a human interpretation of Christ's teachings, not his true teaching.


2 Peter 1:20 21 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

I have a lot of things to do this lovely Sunday. As an athiest I could even go to work, but I don't have to. Now I'm sure a lot of you "Christians" do have to work. (I can't find the text in the New Testament that gives you a dispensation to ignore the Sabbath rules, maybe one of you could quote that for me?)

Anyway, I leave you with a couple other verses to ponder.

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)

Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[Iceweasel]

The Sabbath is Saturday, it was changed to accommodate the sun worshipers.

 

[Indeependent]

Everything was accomplished. At the cross. But, because they rejected Him, the Jews will remain under the Law until He returns.

Jesus said that Jewish Law is in effect until the end of days, FOR JEWS. And He was right. To this day they practice the Law. Gentiles do not. Where in the NT are we told to perform sacrifices to cover our sin? Christ was our sacrifice, once and for all.
We are under a different covenant with Christ:


Our works are garbage compared to Christ's.

Isaiah 64:6
When are you going to grow up and read verses in context?
I don't mind when you quote TNT but I very much mind when you manipulate The Jewish Scriptures (TJS).
Try reading Isaiah 64:1-5

Not only have I read it, I quoted it. Isaiah was a Jew, speaking to Jews. What was it again that Isaiah said about righteous acts?
In context:

Isaiah 64: 5-9
5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,
who remember your ways.
But when we continued to sin against them,
you were angry.
How then can we be saved?
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
7 No one calls on your name
or strives to lay hold of you;
for you have hidden your face from us
and have given us over to[a] our sins.

8 Yet you, Lord, are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.
9 Do not be angry beyond measure, Lord;
do not remember our sins forever.
Oh, look on us, we pray,
for we are all your people.

Do you think Isaiah meant something other than filthy?

You haven't read much Scripture, have you?
I noticed how you omitted verses 1-4...you can't do that.
God is stating that performing Commandments in a mechanical manner and treating people unkindly is less than useless.
The purpose of the Commandments is a deferment to God and SHOULD be a reminder that we musty treat people as God treats us...will endless love.

 

[Indeependent]

Do Christians and non Christians eat lobster? But, it is against the Law...........
Ham? Bacon? That is against the Law.
Which Laws did God give Moses for the Jews, and which laws did God give Moses for Gentiles?

You stated explicitly that committing a sin requires death.
Where did you get this?

Whatever applies to Noah applies to non-Jews.
Non-Jews have no dietary laws except for eating a severed part of an animal that is still alive,

Now about that sin/death stuff...?

The wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23

"But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Oh, wait...I see The Irish Ram already posted this scripture. You...what...just aren't paying attention?

Irish is teaching a JEWISH penalty using TNT?
Irish EXPLICITLY separated the JEWISH idea from the CHRISTIAN idea, so I'm STILL waiting for a source in TJS for where this is even inferred.

 

[Indeependent]

Everything was accomplished. At the cross. But, because they rejected Him, the Jews will remain under the Law until He returns.

Jesus said that Jewish Law is in effect until the end of days, FOR JEWS. And He was right. To this day they practice the Law.

Bullshit. How many homosexuals or adulterers got stoned to death by observant Jews lately?

The Torah doesn't allow for the death penalty except when the majority of Jews live in Israel and only by the Sanhedrin.

 

[Iceweasel]

Everything was accomplished. At the cross. But, because they rejected Him, the Jews will remain under the Law until He returns.

Jesus said that Jewish Law is in effect until the end of days, FOR JEWS. And He was right. To this day they practice the Law.

Bullshit. How many homosexuals or adulterers got stoned to death by observant Jews lately?

The Torah doesn't allow for the death penalty except when the majority of Jews live in Israel and only by the Sanhedrin.

You forgot to post the verse(s).

 

[The Irish Ram]

You stated explicitly that committing a sin requires death.
Where did you get this?

Whatever applies to Noah applies to non-Jews.
Non-Jews have no dietary laws except for eating a severed part of an animal that is still alive,

Now about that sin/death stuff...?

The wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23

"But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Oh, wait...I see The Irish Ram already posted this scripture. You...what...just aren't paying attention?

Irish is teaching a JEWISH penalty using TNT?
Irish EXPLICITLY separated the JEWISH idea from the CHRISTIAN idea, so I'm STILL waiting for a source in TJS for where this is even inferred.

Oh Lord.
The NT compares being justified by faith vs self righteousness < Law.
Here is the difference between the two. You decide which one pleases God, faith in yourself, or faith in His Son:

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

^
Keeping 600= laws is work.

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

^
define "without the deeds of the Law".

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

^
whose works justifies you? Yours, or Christs, or a combo team effort?

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

^
Whose righteousness is of the law? If you are under the law, whose righteousness are you aware of?

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

^
Not only are we justified, it doesn't stop there.

Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

^
define deeds, then define deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

^
yourself has nothing to do with it. Your name is written in the Book of Life when you accept Christ, not when you have mastered the law.

AND HERE IS THE "INFERENCE" THAT CLEARLY SEPARATES THE TWO.

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

^
Pick one or the other. There is no third option, no combo of righteousness. It is either by works not grace, or grace not works that you are saved. It does not present the alternative of grace and works. And what do you do with all those people that lived and died before the exodus and without the benefit or option of working their way into Heaven? Was God remiss in presenting the laws to Moses instead of Abraham?

But it gets worse. If you think that God is pleased with anything other than faith in His Son, let's see:

Romans 10:3 - For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

^
Christ is considered the righteousness of God.

And worse yet:

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

But this is as offensive as the Law can be to our Father:

Galatians 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Keep your eyes on Christ. And the good you do, the deeds you commit, your work, and the sin you avoid will be for His sake, not yours. It isn't, "do good and I will accept you". It is "I accept you, do good".

 

[Indeependent]

Bullshit. How many homosexuals or adulterers got stoned to death by observant Jews lately?

The Torah doesn't allow for the death penalty except when the majority of Jews live in Israel and only by the Sanhedrin.

You forgot to post the verse(s).

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Schottenstein-Edition-Talmud-English-Sanhedrin/dp/0899067433/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1401665222&sr=8-5&keywords=artscroll+sanhedrin[/ame]

It is derived from studying a vast array of verses, as is everything else we practice.
You see, learning Torah keeps up too busy to spend a 1,000 years destroying Europe.

 

[Indeependent]

The wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23

"But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Oh, wait...I see The Irish Ram already posted this scripture. You...what...just aren't paying attention?

Irish is teaching a JEWISH penalty using TNT?
Irish EXPLICITLY separated the JEWISH idea from the CHRISTIAN idea, so I'm STILL waiting for a source in TJS for where this is even inferred.

Oh Lord.
The NT compares being justified by faith vs self righteousness < Law.
Here is the difference between the two. You decide which one pleases God, faith in yourself, or faith in His Son:


^
Keeping 600= laws is work.


^
define "without the deeds of the Law".


^
whose works justifies you? Yours, or Christs, or a combo team effort?


^
Whose righteousness is of the law? If you are under the law, whose righteousness are you aware of?


^
Not only are we justified, it doesn't stop there.


^
define deeds, then define deeds of the law.


^
yourself has nothing to do with it. Your name is written in the Book of Life when you accept Christ, not when you have mastered the law.

AND HERE IS THE "INFERENCE" THAT CLEARLY SEPARATES THE TWO.


^
Pick one or the other. There is no third option, no combo of righteousness. It is either by works not grace, or grace not works that you are saved. It does not present the alternative of grace and works. And what do you do with all those people that lived and died before the exodus and without the benefit or option of working their way into Heaven? Was God remiss in presenting the laws to Abraham, instead of Moses?

But it gets worse. If you think that God is pleased with anything other than faith in His Son, let's see:


^
Christ is considered the righteousness of God.

And worse yet:

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

But this is as offensive the Law is to our Father:

Galatians 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Keep your eyes on Christ. And the good you do, the deeds you commit, your work, and the sin you avoid will be for His sake, not yours. It isn't, "do good and I will accept you". It is "I accept you, do good".

And that's exactly where you, and many Jews, in fact, miss the point.
Behavior and it's underlying purpose defines attitude.
Had the majority of Jews listened to the prophets and realized the sole purpose of the Commandments is to maintain a connection to God, the dispersions would never have occurred.
Had the dispersions never had occurred, the underlying reason the Holy Roman Catholic Church sacked Europe for a millenia would never had been perpetrated by the Jews.
Belligerence cannot be curtailed without engrossing oneself in activities that remind them of God's beneficence and that people must treat each other as God treats us.
It was NEVER the omission of the Commandments that God complained about, it was the fact that their underlying ability to connect to God was ignored.

However, as I stated last night, my beef is not with your beliefs based on TNT, my beef is how you keep using TJS to justify your beliefs.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Do Christians and non Christians eat lobster? But, it is against the Law...........
Ham? Bacon? That is against the Law.
Which Laws did God give Moses for the Jews, and which laws did God give Moses for Gentiles?

If one is not a Christian, one is not bound by Christian laws. You'd be amazed what the Chinese ate over the centuries when they were starving. And they still eat a lot of very unusual things. So, for a non-Christian to eat lobster? Makes no difference: he/she is not bound by Christian beliefs.

I see you said Christian laws as opposed to Jewish law. Jewish Law was given to Jews.
Christ's "laws" on the other hand, were given to mankind. They apply to the Chinese, the Arab, the Jew, the Christian and to the atheist. They do not cease to apply because someone chooses not to abide.

And who better to know what we need than Christ, the one that removed the sin of the Chinese, the Arab, the Jew, the Christian and the atheist......

 

[shart_attack]

Why so defensive? This thread is not about criticizing Christians, not about hate, not about attacking anyone. It's a real question. According to the Bible, gluttony is a sin, yet Christians don't seem to take that sin seriously as they do so many others. Why not? Don't you fear God's wrath? For example, there are a lot of hungry people in the world, millions of starving children. Do you think God looks upon his Christian children and seeing them commit the sin of gluttony while children starve, he will be pleased? Why don't Christians take the sin of gluttony seriously when they take other sins so seriously?

Probably because you go on to make sweeping generalizations that invite standoffishness, like:

Christian beliefs and philosophies have NEVER been harmless; they are, in fact, responsible for the suffering, torture, and deaths of millions upon millions.

You think?

I am not an "anti-Christian." I do understand Christianity: I was born and raised a Christian, was baptized, and went to Sunday school and, later, church.

This isn't an attack, nor is it a rant: you are being overly defensive and in a very aggressive and ugly manner. It's a sincere question. Why, of all the other sins, is gluttony ignored? Even joked about, people joking about eating chocolate and over eating, etc.?

Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it, too.

You can't incite anger from Christians, only then yourself to go on and ask them why they're angry.

Or you can, but that'd just make you, well, childishly stupid.

You get what you pay for, troll.

 

[The Irish Ram]

After losing post after post, and the last two, which took a bit of time to prepare, to the excruciating amount of ads here, and not wanting to download something that I appear to only need here to prevent all the lost time and effort, I think I am going to just hang it up. It's infuriating, and not worth the angst.
May God bless everyone who reads here. Peace and Love.

 

[Chuckt]

After losing post after post, and the last two, which took a bit of time to prepare, to the excruciating amount of ads here, and not wanting to download something that I appear to only need here to prevent all the lost time and effort, I think I am going to just hang it up. It's infuriating, and not worth the angst.
May God bless everyone who reads here. Peace and Love.

I installed Adblock which stopped the advertisements.
I would advise you to type your responses in a word processor first and then paste your responses to the forum. That way you don't have to type your response over and over and you won't lose you work.

 

[Chuckt]

Everything was accomplished. At the cross. But, because they rejected Him, the Jews will remain under the Law until He returns.

Jesus said that Jewish Law is in effect until the end of days, FOR JEWS. And He was right. To this day they practice the Law.

Bullshit. How many homosexuals or adulterers got stoned to death by observant Jews lately?

The Torah doesn't allow for the death penalty except when the majority of Jews live in Israel and only by the Sanhedrin.

No. Rome took away the right of the Jews to execute the death penalty.

 

[Chuckt]

I agree to a certain extent, one can be over weight because of the type of food you eat and lack of exercise, but that is not generally true of most over weight people. It's kind of a myth that over weight people tell themselves. The truth is, a calorie is a calorie, no matter what you eat. If you eat more than you need, that's gluttony.

That is not the real point though. People have more than they need and they continue to over indulge, to be greedy and gluttonous. That's a sin, according to the Bible, but one conveniently over looked. Why? Why is it less important of a sin than others? Like smoking or drinking or lying or many other sins? Aren't you afraid of the wrath of God? Why take some sins so seriously and ignore others completely?

No. I know overweight people who drink diet soda or water instead of real soda.
I know overweight people who eat unsalted popcorn when they are hungry because it is less calories.

I couldn't gain weight when I was a teenager and that is a medical issue so when you dictate to people what they can eat against the advice of a doctor then the doctor can actually call the state and report you because you would be breaking the law when it is a medical issue.

I knew a man who walked all of his life because of the advice of his doctor that it was what he needed to do to not gain weight. He must have been walking 20 miles a day and he was really trekking.

Here is a newsflash. People eat because they are hungry and they stop when their stomachs fill up. Some gain weight and others don't. Those who gain weight because their metabolisms are too slow are sinners according to you and those who are gluttons and eat and eat and eat because their metabolisms are too fast are not sinners because they are thin according to you.

 

[SmedlyButler]

After losing post after post, and the last two, which took a bit of time to prepare, to the excruciating amount of ads here, and not wanting to download something that I appear to only need here to prevent all the lost time and effort, I think I am going to just hang it up. It's infuriating, and not worth the angst.
May God bless everyone who reads here. Peace and Love.

Some of you Christians are among the nicest and least hateful posters, you near the top of that list.

 

[Esmeralda]

Do Christians and non Christians eat lobster? But, it is against the Law...........
Ham? Bacon? That is against the Law.
Which Laws did God give Moses for the Jews, and which laws did God give Moses for Gentiles?

If one is not a Christian, one is not bound by Christian laws. You'd be amazed what the Chinese ate over the centuries when they were starving. And they still eat a lot of very unusual things. So, for a non-Christian to eat lobster? Makes no difference: he/she is not bound by Christian beliefs.

I see you said Christian laws as opposed to Jewish law. Jewish Law was given to Jews.
Christ's "laws" on the other hand, were given to mankind. They apply to the Chinese, the Arab, the Jew, the Christian and to the atheist. They do not cease to apply because someone chooses not to abide.

And who better to know what we need than Christ, the one that removed the sin of the Chinese, the Arab, the Jew, the Christian and the atheist......

Jewish laws, Christian laws, whatever: religious laws. They don't apply to people who don't belong to those religions. Christian laws do NOT apply to people of other religions or people w/o religion. They certainly do CEASE TO APPLY when one is not a member of that faith. What absolute arrogance to assume your laws apply to others!!!!! That would mean their laws apply to you. How idiotic. And what total and absolute arrogance your last statement is. And you wonder why people don't like Christians. Be humble and have respect for other peoples' faiths. Jesus would want you to. Your lack of humility will keep you from your God's grace and heaven.

 

[hobelim]

Do Christians and non Christians eat lobster? But, it is against the Law...........
Ham? Bacon? That is against the Law.
Which Laws did God give Moses for the Jews, and which laws did God give Moses for Gentiles?

The Law was given as a light to the nations which means that the law applies to everybody.

When Jesus said 'unless you eat my flesh you can have no life in you' he was referring to his teaching, flesh, about the figurative nature and hidden subjects of the law revealing that kosher law is not about what you serve and eat but what you teach and learn and that unless you understand and comply with the law in this light you cannot have the life promised for obedience to the law in you.

The specific reason given in the law for the prohibition of the flesh of swine is that they do not ruminate, and their flesh, teaching, defiles and contaminates the mind.

Swallow the teaching of any creature that does not ruminate and it will defile and contaminate your mind and you will become a creature that cannot ruminate.

The Law remains in effect and continues in full force whether you comply with it or not, whether you believe in it or not, whether Jew or gentile..

No one knows this better than you