The Bible has the answer to poverty.

[hadit]

Cut and dry. Unless one wants to twist the bible to fit it for themselves.

All throughout Scripture, God blesses with wealth. Think of Abraham, David, Solomon. All very, very wealthy and all blessed by God. God is not averse to wealth, He is averse to selfishness. Think also that, in order to have more to give, one must already have more, or be in the process of accumulating more.

The problem with wealth is that it is seductive and human nature is, once one begins to accumulate some wealth, to want more, and more, and more, never being satisfied. That is not God's model. God's model is to be grateful for what He gives and to share it freely.

 

[Woodznutz]

Cut and dry. Unless one wants to twist the bible to fit it for themselves.

What Jesus was saying is "you can't take it with you". A camel loaded with goods couldn't go through the "eye of the needle" gate unless it was unloaded and shuffled through on its knees. That's how we will go in, unburdened and on our knees. That's how it's possible for a 'rich' person to go in.

 

[Mashmont]

Here's the context.

The Rich and the Kingdom of God​

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

I've always had trouble with this passage. I feel like if I gave all my money away, I would be abdicating my job in helping my children. Or is it my job? I also feel I can help people with my money, more so than if I didn't have money. I also feel happier and more secure myself if I have money and don't have to worry about paying for stuff. I need guidance on this.

 

[hadit]

Here's the context.

The Rich and the Kingdom of God​

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Exactly. Jesus went straight to the heart. Note that Jesus did not demand (at least we don't see it in Scripture) that Matthew divest himself of all his wealth. Matthew was a tax collector for Rome, a group notorious for enriching themselves at others' expense. In this man's case, he probably did try to follow every commandment to the best of his ability, but Jesus went straight to the point and revealed that his wealth meant more to him than following Jesus.

The early church shared what they had amongst themselves and would have had little to share if members did not already have wealth and did not continue to earn it.

 

[Mashmont]

What Jesus was saying is "you can't take it with you". A camel loaded with goods couldn't go through the "eye of the needle" gate unless it was unloaded and shuffled through on its knees. That's how we will go in, unburdened and on our knees. That's how it's possible for a 'rich' person to go in.

What does that mean? That a rich person should give away nearly everything? Or should a rich person live modestly rather than lavishly?

The power of money to me is not in living high; it's in knowing you will be taken care of in emergency. But maybe that is folly as well, in the eyes of God.

 

[Woodznutz]

I've always had trouble with this passage. I feel like if I gave all my money away, I would be abdicating my job in helping my children. Or is it my job? I also feel I can help a lot of people with my money, more so than if I didn't have money. I also feel happier and more secure myself if I have money and don't have to worry about paying for stuff. I need guidance on this.

The people in Haiti have nothing, and lose what little they have in every hurricane. Yet they are extremely happy and cheerful people.

A rich man in Jesus' day was unbelievably rich by todays standards. Even today a millionaire isn't really considered rich. The top one percenter's are the real rich.

In fact, one serious illness can wipe out a millionaire's wealth in no time. Also, many are "rich on paper" and can lose it if the markets crash. The rich in Jesus' day owned gold and lots of it.

 

[hadit]

I've always had trouble with this passage. I feel like if I gave all my money away, I would be abdicating my job in helping my children. Or is it my job? I also feel I can help people with my money, more so than if I didn't have money. I also feel happier and more secure myself if I have money and don't have to worry about paying for stuff. I need guidance on this.

As I've been saying, God does not demand you give up everything. Jesus did for that one man because his wealth was the one thing that prevented him from truly following Jesus. Elsewhere in Scripture we see believers being commanded to work and support themselves, so having enough that you and your family are not a burden on others is not a bad thing. The point is to realize it is a gift from God and to be generous with the blessings that God has given you.

 

[Mashmont]

As I've been saying, God does not demand you give up everything. Jesus did for that one man because his wealth was the one thing that prevented him from truly following Jesus. Elsewhere in Scripture we see believers being commanded to work and support themselves, so having enough that you and your family are not a burden on others is not a bad thing. The point is to realize it is a gift from God and to be generous with the blessings that God has given you.

I like this explanation.

 

[hadit]

What does that mean? That a rich person should give away nearly everything? Or should a rich person live modestly?

It goes to the condition of the heart. Is a rich person glorifying God or himself?

Once you achieve a certain level of wealth, anything you have beyond that is unnecessary. Think of it, if you have more than you need to provide enough to eat every day, clothes to wear, and reliable shelter from the elements, what is the extra for, yourself or to glorify God?

Also, living modestly allows him to be more generous with his wealth.

 

[Woodznutz]

What does that mean? That a rich person should give away nearly everything? Or should a rich person live modestly?

What is misunderstood about this story is the Jesus was offering the young rich man discipleship. It is not to be used as a general example. The other disciples had already given up "all that they had" to follow Jesus.

 

[Mashmont]

A rich man in Jesus' day was unbelievably rich by todays standards. Even today a millionaire isn't really considered rich. The top one percenter's are the real rich.

In fact, one serious illness can wipe out a millionaire's wealth in no time. Also, many are "rich on paper" and can lose it if the markets crash. The rich in Jesus' day owned gold and lots of it.

Interesting. I might have thought we are richer than the richest kings of yesteryear, given all the stuff we have. But maybe wealth relative to the people living in your era.

 

[Mashmont]

It goes to the condition of the heart. Is a rich person glorifying God or himself?

Once you achieve a certain level of wealth, anything you have beyond that is unnecessary. Think of it, if you have more than you need to provide enough to eat every day, clothes to wear, and reliable shelter from the elements, what is the extra for, yourself or to glorify God?

Also, living modestly allows him to be more generous with his wealth.

I don't have trouble with the living modestly part. But I feel I need extra not to buy more stuff, but to cover a catastrophe;

 

[Woodznutz]

Interesting. I might have thought we are richer than the richest kings of yesteryear, given all the stuff we have. But maybe wealth relative to the people living in your era.

Most don't know what a "talent" of gold was in those days.

About 75 pounds (35 kilograms)
A talent of gold during Jesus' day was a significant unit of measurement and value. It is generally estimated to weigh about 75 pounds (35 kilograms), making it a substantial amount of gold. In biblical contexts, talents were often used to denote wealth, with figures like King Solomon being described as having 666 talents of gold annually. The exact value of a talent can vary based on current gold prices, but it is often considered to represent a considerable sum of money in today's terms.

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't have trouble with the living modestly part. But I feel I need extra not to buy more stuff, but to cover a catastrophe;

I'm too old to worry about a catastrophe. I want to be able to cover them if they happen to my kids.

 

[hadit]

I don't have trouble with the living modestly part. But I feel I need extra not to buy more stuff, but to cover a catastrophe;

That comes down to faith. Some go so far as to refuse insurance, believing that God will take care of anything that could happen to them. I don't go with that, instead believing that if God gives us the intelligence and ability to take care of ourselves, we should.

Keep in mind that laying aside extra for future emergencies is wise because it allows you to live without being a burden on others. Bad things happen to all of us, and if we can take care of our own situations, no one else has to. Just be prepared to give generously when you become aware of a need you can help meet.

 

[Woodznutz]

There are many interpretations of how God wants us to treat those down and out,
You picked the verse MAGA chooses to follow.
Here is what good Christians follow.
Proverbs 14:31, which states that being kind to the needy honors God; Proverbs 19:17, which says being generous to the poor is like lending to the Lord; and Isaiah 58:7, which instructs to "share your bread with the hungry" and provide shelter for the homeless.

• Proverbs 31:8-9: "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy".

Nearly 20 percent of your taxes goes to charity.

 

[Woodznutz]

All lovely quotes thst show why I no longer have anything to do with Christianity…. Stupidity in action.

Well said.

 

[IM2]

Is it a moral thing to help the needy to the extent that the nation goes bankrupt?

Helping the needy is not bankrupting the nation. Helping the greedy is. So is overfunding the military and law enforcement.

 

[IM2]

Nearly 20 percent of your taxes goes to charity.

And so, where does the other 80 percent go? You MAGATS argue about small numbers, but the problem is where the big numbers go. Too much money is spent on the military.

 

[Woodznutz]

And so, where does the other 80 percent go? You MAGATS argue about small numbers, but the problem is where the big numbers go. Too much money is spent on the military.

Just get a job in a defense plant and access some of it.