Zone1 The Right to Rescue

[buttercup]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

The reason I ask is because there's a big legal battle going on right now, between people who believe there is an ethical right to rescue animals (in general, not just dogs) from extremely abusive situations.... and those who oppose that type of rescue, on the grounds that animals are their "property." The latter group is big industries that rely on ag-gag laws to continue getting away with the worst possible animal abuse.

I know that this idea is very controversial for a number of reasons. First, most people have been conditioned to love and respect dogs, cats, and other pets... and to not care about farm animals or other animals that people eat.

Another reason why 'the right to rescue' is controversial is because it involves breaking and entering into someone's place of business, where the animals are trapped.

Here's the thing, though. There are already some laws on the books against animal cruelty. So if a business is clearly and demonstrably violating those laws.... how can they claim they're the innocent victim....and the rescuer - who is saving the animal from something both illegal and immoral - is the criminal?

If the breaking and entering and "stealing" an animal makes the rescuer a criminal... then what about breaking and entering into someone's car to rescue a dog who is visibly suffering and about to die?

Isn't that dog also "property" of the owner, who can do whatever he wants to his dog, including leaving him to die in a hot car?

What are your thoughts on 'the right to rescue'..... should it be acceptable, when it's a case of clearly saving an animal from the worst possible abuse which every sane person knows is wrong? Or should it be treated as a crime, and should those who rescue animals from those types of situations be put in jail for a long time, as they almost did to Wayne Hsiung , who saved three beagles from Ridglan Farms?

 

[White 6]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

The reason I ask is because there's a big legal battle going on right now, between people who believe there is an ethical right to rescue animals (in general, not just dogs) from extremely abusive situations.... and those who oppose that type of rescue, on the grounds that animals are their "property." The latter group is big industries that rely on ag-gag laws to continue getting away with the worst possible animal abuse.

I know that this idea is very controversial for a number of reasons. First, most people have been conditioned to love and respect dogs, cats, and other pets... and to not care about farm animals or other animals that people eat.

Another reason why 'the right to rescue' is controversial is because it involves breaking and entering into someone's place of business, where the animals are trapped.

Here's the thing, though. There are already some laws on the books against animal cruelty. So if a business is clearly and demonstrably violating those laws.... how can they claim they're the innocent victim....and the rescuer - who is saving the animal from something both illegal and immoral - is the criminal?

If the breaking and entering and "stealing" an animal makes the rescuer a criminal... then what about breaking and entering into someone's car to rescue a dog who is visibly suffering and about to die?

Isn't that dog also "property" of the owner, who can do whatever he wants to his dog, including leaving him to die in a hot car?

What are your thoughts on 'the right to rescue'..... should it be acceptable, when it's a case of clearly saving an animal from the worst possible abuse which every sane person knows is wrong? Or should it be treated as a crime, and should those who rescue animals from those types of situations be put in jail for a long time, as they almost did to Wayne Hsiung , who saved three beagles from Ridglan Farms?

Yes, it is ethical, but not without legal peril, depending on circumstance.

 

[buttercup]

Yes, it is ethical, but not without legal peril, depending on circumstance.

I agree, but I'm not sure if you're talking about rescuing dogs from cars, or the whole idea of 'the right to rescue.'

From what I've read, 14 states have laws that allow the rescue of dogs from hot cars. So of course in those states a person doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble legally. But yes, in general, I agree. I think it's an interesting battle.

 

[White 6]

I agree, but I'm not sure if you're talking about rescuing dogs from cars, or the whole idea of 'the right to rescue.'

From what I've read, 14 states have laws that allow the rescue of dogs from hot cars. So of course in those states a person doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble legally. But yes, in general, I agree. I think it's an interesting battle.

Before anyone starts breaking a window out, they had best be sure the animal is in immediate danger of succumbing to the heat. If possible, it is better to call the authorities before taking on the property damage liability, unless certain they will not arrive in time. Being on firm ethical ground is not the same as being on firm legal ground.

 

[deannalw]

People that leave their dog in a hot car to die should be put in a hot car to die.

If a guy and a dog were drowning, I'd save the dog first.

 

[buttercup]

Before anyone starts breaking a window out, they had best be sure the animal is in immediate danger of succumbing to the heat. If possible, it is better to call the authorities before taking on the property damage liability, unless certain they will not arrive in time. Being on firm ethical ground is not the same as being on firm legal ground.

I agree. But this thread is not really about saving dogs from a hot car. I just used that as an example to show what the idea of 'the right to rescue' basically boils down to. Of course I fully expect that most people will see that situation as a different matter... but that's why I posted this thread, to provoke thought and see what people have to say about this topic. Thanks.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

The reason I ask is because there's a big legal battle going on right now, between people who believe there is an ethical right to rescue animals (in general, not just dogs) from extremely abusive situations.... and those who oppose that type of rescue, on the grounds that animals are their "property." The latter group is big industries that rely on ag-gag laws to continue getting away with the worst possible animal abuse.

I know that this idea is very controversial for a number of reasons. First, most people have been conditioned to love and respect dogs, cats, and other pets... and to not care about farm animals or other animals that people eat.

Another reason why 'the right to rescue' is controversial is because it involves breaking and entering into someone's place of business, where the animals are trapped.

Here's the thing, though. There are already some laws on the books against animal cruelty. So if a business is clearly and demonstrably violating those laws.... how can they claim they're the innocent victim....and the rescuer - who is saving the animal from something both illegal and immoral - is the criminal?

If the breaking and entering and "stealing" an animal makes the rescuer a criminal... then what about breaking and entering into someone's car to rescue a dog who is visibly suffering and about to die?

Isn't that dog also "property" of the owner, who can do whatever he wants to his dog, including leaving him to die in a hot car?

What are your thoughts on 'the right to rescue'..... should it be acceptable, when it's a case of clearly saving an animal from the worst possible abuse which every sane person knows is wrong? Or should it be treated as a crime, and should those who rescue animals from those types of situations be put in jail for a long time, as they almost did to Wayne Hsiung , who saved three beagles from Ridglan Farms?

I think I know what you are talking about, and if so, you're being blatantly dishonest, here.

You're talking about farm animals, aren't you?

The animals on which everyone who isn't a vegan [word deleted for Zone 1 compliance W6] depends, for a major part of our diet and nutrition.

You want to take food out of my mouth, and property out of the hands of the farmers that provide that food.

 

[buttercup]

I think I know what you are talking about, and if so, you're being blatantly dishonest, here.

You're talking about farm animals, aren't you?

The animals on which everyone who isn't a vegan pussy depends, for a major part of our diet and nutrition.

You want to take food out of my mouth, and property out of the hands of the farmers that provide that food.

I clearly stated in the OP that the 'right to rescue' legal battle involves ALL animals, not just dogs. That was the whole point, if you actually read the entire post. So either you missed that, or you're purposely being combative because of your anti-vegan hatred.

Why so angry and emotional? Why not just share your thoughts on the topic? It's not diet. It's about whether or not it's ethically right to rescue animals (ANY animal) from an extremely abusive situation.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I think I know what you are talking about, and if so, you're being blatantly dishonest, here.

You're talking about farm animals, aren't you?

The animals on which everyone who isn't a vegan pussy depends, for a major part of our diet and nutrition.

You want to take food out of my mouth, and property out of the hands of the farmers that provide that food.

.

The responsible and humane treatment of livestock animals is necessary.

This definitely does not mean it's wrong to kill animals which are humanely grown for food.

.

 

[White 6]

.

I had it out with an idiot who believed that my dog left alone in the car was in distress. It was in a shady underground parking garage where the temperature outside the car was about 65° and the crazy thing was asking passersby for something to smash a window with. I told her that if she did, I'd take it from her and use it on her face.

There are so many SJW's who just don't know how to use something called judgment. They so desperately want their SJW brownie points that they totally lose common sense.

But I personally will be very happy when ALL industrial cruelty to animals is legislated as a felony, so that rescuing animals from such situations becomes perfectly legal.

.

I am glad you got back to your car before somebody broke your window out.
I cannot take my Shepherd out and leave her in the jeep. If somebody broke my window out, she would undoubtedly attack and hold. So I would get sued or my dog shot by good Samaritans, or both.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I clearly stated in the OP that the 'right to rescue' legal battle involves ALL animals, not just dogs. That was the whole point, if you actually read the entire post. So either you missed that, or you're purposely being combative because of your anti-vegan hatred.

Why so angry and emotional? Why not just share your thoughts on the topic? It's not diet. It's about whether or not it's ethically right to rescue animals (ANY animal) from an extremely abusive situation.

.

There is no anger or undue emotion in that post.

If you think that's what you're seeing, I'll say that you just started this thread to start a fight.

The eye of the beholder.

.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I am glad you got back to your car before somebody broke your window out.
I cannot take my Shepherd out and leave her in the jeep. If somebody broke my window out, she would undoubtedly attack and hold. So I would get sued or my dog shot by good Samaritans, or both.

.

Please note I deleted my post, but thank you. Good dog!

.

 

[boevans]

You are no toughie. OPJQ, go away. The lady would have kicked your ass.

Now to the OP. You have no right to rescue farm animals. End of discussion.

 

[buttercup]

.

There is no anger or undue emotion in that post.

If you think that's what you're seeing, I'll say that you just started this thread to start a fight.

The eye of the beholder.

.

Yeah, jabs like "[word deleted for Zone 1 compliance W6] ", "blatantly dishonest" and accusing someone of wanting to take their food shows no anger at all. Right.

Anyway, the whole reason I posted this in the Clean Debates section is because I have zero interest in nastiness, name-calling and other childishness.

I guess this is becoming increasingly rare these days, but I'm one who actually likes genuine debate and discussion, that is civil and respectful.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Yeah, jabs like "vegan pussy", "blatantly dishonest" and accusing someone of wanting to take their food shows no anger at all. Right.

Anyway, the whole reason I posted this in the Clean Debates section is because I have zero interest in nastiness, name-calling and other childishness.

I guess this is becoming increasingly rare these days, but I'm one who actually likes genuine debate and discussion, that is civil and respectful.

.

You say so.







.

 

[sparky]

But this thread is not really about saving dogs from a hot car. I just used that as an example to show what the idea of 'the right to rescue' basically boils down to. Of course I fully expect that most people will see that situation as a different matter... but that's why I posted this thread, to provoke thought and see what people have to say about this topic. Thanks

[has been]We had the ambulance within earshot of the fire, fully involved one story residence. The FF's said over the radio "we've got a little one on the way out" , and all we could think of was a toddler, but it was a mid sized mutt some sort of beagle but bigger lineage.

The poor pooch was motionless, the crowd surrounded us, my partner jumped right on in and started mouth to muzzle (she was one tough b*tch!) , while i fumbled with a non rebreather (O2) to supplement it all.

A minute went by, and the tail started twicthin' , another and the pooch had her head move, eyes focused. She (the dog) finally stood up on her own after a while

The crowd went nuts, you could have thought their team won the superbowl touchdown

POINT?
dogs are better people......than people.....

[/has been]

~S~

 

[buttercup]

Now to the OP. You have no right to rescue farm animals. End of discussion.

Do you apply that to all animals? Did you click on the video in the OP? Do you think Wayne should have gotten 16 years in prison for rescuing that beagle?

FTR, I have not even stated my opinion on the matter, one way or the other. I'm just bringing up the discussion.

 

[Crepitus]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

Yup. I'm busting out that window every damn time.

 

[jackflash]

I agree, but I'm not sure if you're talking about rescuing dogs from cars, or the whole idea of 'the right to rescue.'

From what I've read, 14 states have laws that allow the rescue of dogs from hot cars. So of course in those states a person doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble legally. But yes, in general, I agree. I think it's an interesting battle.

Believe me, it's not just people that save animals from peril. The following link shows a deer doe stomping a hawk to death. Doe's view raptors as predators & a danger to their fawns. The doe was not trying to save the rabbit as she only wanted to exterminate the raptor. It was that rabbit's lucky day!



In the below vid a lil human baboo is bawling loudly & this doe comes in a running to offer assistance but mama lets the doe know that the lil baboo is her baboo & not the doe's lil baboo. Notice that stiff legged stance of the doe like she is ready to spring into defensive action & is no hurry what so ever to leave.



Below is what happens when one raises an orphaned fawn with a pup.



Deer, to know them is to luv them!

 

[sparky]

There is nothing in nature as strong as the maternal drive.....~S~