Zone1 The Right to Rescue

[buttercup]

Believe me, it's not just people that save animals from peril. The following link shows a deer doe stomping a hawk to death. Doe's view raptors as predators & a danger to their fawns. The doe was not trying to save the rabbit as she only wanted to exterminate the raptor. It was that rabbit's lucky day!



In the below vid a lil human baboo is bawling loudly & this doe comes in a running to offer assistance but mama lets the doe know that the lil baboo is her baboo & not the doe's lil baboo. Notice that stiff legged stance of the doe like she is ready to spring into defensive action & is no hurry what so ever to leave.



Below is what happens when one raises an orphaned fawn with a pup.



Deer, to know them is to luv them!

So true, thank you for mentioning that! And I couldn't agree more with the last thing you said.

Speaking of animals saving other animals from peril, someone just posted this the other day... a crow helping a hedgehog get out of harm's way:

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Believe me, it's not just people that save animals from peril. The following link shows a deer doe stomping a hawk to death. Doe's view raptors as predators & a danger to their fawns. The doe was not trying to save the rabbit as she only wanted to exterminate the raptor. It was that rabbit's lucky day!



In the below vid a lil human baboo is bawling loudly & this doe comes in a running to offer assistance but mama lets the doe know that the lil baboo is her baboo & not the doe's lil baboo. Notice that stiff legged stance of the doe like she is ready to spring into defensive action & is no hurry what so ever to leave.



Below is what happens when one raises an orphaned fawn with a pup.



Deer, to know them is to luv them!

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These vids are SO PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!

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[Michelle420]

Yes, I support the right to rescue. Indonesia has no animal cruelty laws. I have reported a sadistic monkey torturer on youtube for months and they won't take his videos down even one where he is molesting a baby monkey.

 

[buttercup]

Yes, I support the right to rescue. Indonesia has no animal cruelty laws. I have reported a sadistic monkey torturer on youtube for months and they won't take his videos down even one where he is molesting a baby monkey.

Thank you!!! You rock, Michelle. I haven't seen those monkey videos, but unfortunately I saw a glimpse of a couple other diabolical animal cruelty videos on my Instagram feed from a group who is trying to expose it... also involving baby animals (I couldn't watch longer than a couple seconds.) It's incomprehensible to me how anyone is capable of those things. Thank you for reporting it, I'm surprised it's taking so long for YouTube to do anything about it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I clearly stated in the OP that the 'right to rescue' legal battle involves ALL animals, not just dogs. That was the whole point, if you actually read the entire post. So either you missed that, or you're purposely being combative because of your anti-vegan hatred.

So, your intent is exactly what I thought it was.

It's one thing to choose to deprive yourself of an essential source of certain nutrients.

Now, you want to force that choice on me, as well, by “rescuing” the animals that provide the meat that I need in my diet in order to be strong enough and healthy enough to do the kind of work that I do.

 

[buttercup]

So, your intent is exactly what I thought it was.

It's one thing to choose to deprive yourself of an essential source of certain nutrients.

Now, you want to force that choice on me, as well, by “rescuing” the animals that provide the meat that I need in my diet in order to be strong enough and healthy enough to do the kind of work that I do.

Where to begin with all that. Your post is chock-full of false statements and misconceptions.

First of all, let me make something crystal clear: I'm not "forcing" you to do anything.

I asked a question, which you still haven't answered, because you still don't understand what the topic is.

This thread is not about diet, it's not even really about veganism. It's about whether or not it's ethically acceptable to rescue animals from situations of extreme abuse.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but since you keep ignoring that question and you keep ranting and raving about no one taking your meat away, I'm assuming that your answer is no, there is no right to rescue animals in blatantly abusive situations. Correct me if that is not your position.

If it is, then you're a perfect example of the blatant cognitive dissonance that is extremely common among most people... I'd say among 90% of the public. And that is putting SOME animals in the category of "worthy of love and respect" while putting OTHER animals in the category of "I don't care what happens to them, even if it's the worst possible abuse and suffering."

Lastly, I don't want to get into a discussion on veganism, because I've had this discussion with you before, but I can see that you're STILL making demonstrably false statements about nutrition. There is zero nutritional need for meat. It is not only unnecessary, but numerous studies have shown that in the long run, the more flesh a person eats, the higher their risk is for heart disease and certain types of cancer. But that's not the topic right now, and I don't want to get sidetracked into that discussion, which as I said, we've been through before. I was just correcting you, because you don't get to make false statements without anyone saying anything about it.

Again, the topic is the right to rescue. Your answer seems to be no. If so, I'm curious to know how you feel about rescuing dogs or cats from situations of visible suffering or imminent death. Are you against that too?

And I'm going to page some people to this thread...
CarlinAnnArbor Blues Man

 

[DudleySmith]

Call the cops; animal abuse is against the laws of every state I know of. If we're so wimpy we have to worry about getting sued for doing the right thing, then just lay down and die, get it over with.

Most people who raise livestock have a vested interest in treating their herds and critters well. Those that don't don't stay in business long, and authorities will intervene in cases of abuse. They certainly do here in Texas.

 

[buttercup]

Call the cops; animal abuse is against the laws of every state I know of. If we're so wimpy we have to worry about getting sued for doing the right thing, then just lay down and die, get it over with.

THANK YOU! I appreciate you answering the question as opposed to getting all pissy and defensive, lol.

Only problem with that is, in most cases, the cops will defend the big ag businesses, because even though you're right, there are laws against animal abuse.... animals are still considered property, and to do anything about that, it has to go to court to be proven.

That's one of the reasons why SOME animal rights activists do the open rescue thing, because not only is it a way to shine the light on these businesses who are doing things behind closed doors that are horrific… But also because if they get arrested, it goes to court, which is their chance to prove that abuse they were rescuing the animals from.

By the way… even within the animal rights community, not everyone agrees with open rescue. That's why I said in the OP that I acknowledge it's controversial.

 

[Michelle420]

Thank you!!! You rock, Michelle. I haven't seen those monkey videos, but unfortunately I saw a glimpse of a couple other diabolical animal cruelty videos on my Instagram feed from a group who is trying to expose it... also involving baby animals (I couldn't watch longer than a couple seconds.) It's incomprehensible to me how anyone is capable of those things. Thank you for reporting it, I'm surprised it's taking so long for YouTube to do anything about it.

They won't. They only take down ones that are so horrific nobody can deny it. The sadist I am trying to take down has 2 channels. He emotionally and sexually abuses baby monkeys. He starves them a couple days and then gives them pink ketamine milk in a bottle and then films it. The only reason I had to stick with it is because I cared so much for the little baby monkey. He got it as a newborn and I kept reporting and reporting and I sent his channel to PETA. But it's still up when the monkey I was trying to save turned 4 months old he got a new baby monkey and the other one was never seen again. But I kept reporting it anyway. Now he has not been on either channel for 3 weeks. However, those channels are still up for donations and likes. And someone in those watcher groups said the baby monkey I was so worried over is dead he killed her. He had a private channel for the animal torture creeps.

Since Indonesia has no animal rights laws whatsoever I prayed God would invade him for the Ketamine supply he clearly, has. I hope that's why he has not been on for 3 weeks. But believe it not, he's not even as bad as some others that end up going private channel. I just want it stopped. Youtube honestly doesn't care. They will ban people for political opinions or strike their account but baby monkey torture is just fine with them. I saved all my reports in a file.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

They won't. They only take down ones that are so horrific nobody can deny it. The sadist I am trying to take down has 2 channels. He emotionally and sexually abuses baby monkeys. He starves them a couple days and then gives them pink ketamine milk in a bottle and then films it. The only reason I had to stick with it is because I cared so much for the little baby monkey. He got it as a newborn and I kept reporting and reporting and I sent his channel to PETA. But it's still up when the monkey I was trying to save turned 4 months old he got a new baby monkey and the other one was never seen again. But I kept reporting it anyway. Now he has not been on either channel for 3 weeks. However, those channels are still up for donations and likes. And someone in those watcher groups said the baby monkey I was so worried over is dead he killed her. He had a private channel for the animal torture creeps.

Since Indonesia has no animal rights laws whatsoever I prayed God would invade him for the Ketamine supply he clearly, has. I hope that's why he has not been on for 3 weeks. But believe it not, he's not even as bad as some others that end up going private channel. I just want it stopped. Youtube honestly doesn't care. They will ban people for political opinions or strike their account but baby monkey torture is just fine with them. I saved all my reports in a file.

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Don't lose hope.

Sometimes, all we can do is pray and leave it in God's hands, knowing that He will come.

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[CarlinAnnArbor]

They won't. They only take down ones that are so horrific nobody can deny it. The sadist I am trying to take down has 2 channels. He emotionally and sexually abuses baby monkeys. He starves them a couple days and then gives them pink ketamine milk in a bottle and then films it. The only reason I had to stick with it is because I cared so much for the little baby monkey. He got it as a newborn and I kept reporting and reporting and I sent his channel to PETA. But it's still up when the monkey I was trying to save turned 4 months old he got a new baby monkey and the other one was never seen again. But I kept reporting it anyway. Now he has not been on either channel for 3 weeks. However, those channels are still up for donations and likes. And someone in those watcher groups said the baby monkey I was so worried over is dead he killed her. He had a private channel for the animal torture creeps.

Since Indonesia has no animal rights laws whatsoever I prayed God would invade him for the Ketamine supply he clearly, has. I hope that's why he has not been on for 3 weeks. But believe it not, he's not even as bad as some others that end up going private channel. I just want it stopped. Youtube honestly doesn't care. They will ban people for political opinions or strike their account but baby monkey torture is just fine with them. I saved all my reports in a file.

I'm actually surprised who God awful YouTube is. I got personally threatened by Google for my remarks about Palestinians but animal abuse videos stay up. I scroll past all of them when I come across them. I don't want to give them any views

 

[Road Runner]

People! This thread isn't about veganism, it's about the rescue of animals that are in abuse situations. So do I think that people should have the right to rescue animals in extreme abuse situations?


Yes I do and yes I apply this to even farm animals that we eat because you don't have to abuse an animal that's going to be your meal. Although, I don't really wish to get into an argument about that again so I'm mostly talking about animals that we keep as pets here.



Same exact thing with a child locked in a hot car. If you just wait around and take no action about it whatsoever the child could die rather quickly. Of course, I agree with White 6 whereas you should call the police first before you break a window or anything.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I am glad you got back to your car before somebody broke your window out.
I cannot take my Shepherd out and leave her in the jeep. If somebody broke my window out, she would undoubtedly attack and hold. So I would get sued or my dog shot by good Samaritans, or both.

If it's too warm to leave my dogs in the car, I leave them at home. If we've gone out and it gets too warm, one of us stays in the car with the air con on or windows open, or if I'm on my own, I cancel my journey/appointment and take them back home.

 

[2aguy]

Before anyone starts breaking a window out, they had best be sure the animal is in immediate danger of succumbing to the heat. If possible, it is better to call the authorities before taking on the property damage liability, unless certain they will not arrive in time. Being on firm ethical ground is not the same as being on firm legal ground.

Exactly....

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Some people actually leave the AC running but they often leave a note on the window that they've done so. And they do need to do that, or a cop WILL bust out the window

---

What happens if you leave a pet in a hot car?

Penalties for Violating the Law

Even if no great bodily injury occurs, the fine could be $100. If a pet is injured, fines can go up to $500, and an owner could be jailed for six months.Feb 9, 2024

 

[Bob Blaylock]

People! This thread isn't about veganism, it's about the rescue of animals that are in abuse situations. So do I think that people should have the right to rescue animals in extreme abuse situations?

It is based on the premise that any animal that is being raised to be used as food is in an “abuse situation”.

 

[Road Runner]

It is based on the premise that any animal that is being raised to be used as food is in an “abuse situation”.

I know that. I know how she thinks so I just tried to focus on dogs, cats, etc.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

It is based on the premise that any animal that is being raised to be used as food is in an “abuse situation”.

Cognitive dissonance

 

[Dadoalex]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

The reason I ask is because there's a big legal battle going on right now, between people who believe there is an ethical right to rescue animals (in general, not just dogs) from extremely abusive situations.... and those who oppose that type of rescue, on the grounds that animals are their "property." The latter group is big industries that rely on ag-gag laws to continue getting away with the worst possible animal abuse.

I know that this idea is very controversial for a number of reasons. First, most people have been conditioned to love and respect dogs, cats, and other pets... and to not care about farm animals or other animals that people eat.

Another reason why 'the right to rescue' is controversial is because it involves breaking and entering into someone's place of business, where the animals are trapped.

Here's the thing, though. There are already some laws on the books against animal cruelty. So if a business is clearly and demonstrably violating those laws.... how can they claim they're the innocent victim....and the rescuer - who is saving the animal from something both illegal and immoral - is the criminal?

If the breaking and entering and "stealing" an animal makes the rescuer a criminal... then what about breaking and entering into someone's car to rescue a dog who is visibly suffering and about to die?

Isn't that dog also "property" of the owner, who can do whatever he wants to his dog, including leaving him to die in a hot car?

What are your thoughts on 'the right to rescue'..... should it be acceptable, when it's a case of clearly saving an animal from the worst possible abuse which every sane person knows is wrong? Or should it be treated as a crime, and should those who rescue animals from those types of situations be put in jail for a long time, as they almost did to Wayne Hsiung , who saved three beagles from Ridglan Farms?

You're attempting to conflate two unrelated (although seemingly similar) circumstance which, in essence, invalidates any argument you're making.

Should someone break into a feedlot a free a few thousand steers into a city because they're going to be made into cheeseburgers?

When an asshole leaves an animal in a locked car, windows up, on a hot day, they are, in fact, breaking the law.
When a person breaks into a company an steals their property under guise of "saving" an animal when that company is in full compliance with laws and regulations THAT person is breaking the law.

The former is legally and morally correct and defensible under quod est necessarium est licitum - That which is necessary is legal.
The latter, while the perpetrator may consider it moral, is neither legal nor moral. It is simply an illegal challenge to a law that person finds offensive.

If you don't like the law, work to change it.
Protest it.
But stealing or destroying another's property because you don't like the laws is neither moral nor legal.

 

[Dadoalex]

Before anyone starts breaking a window out, they had best be sure the animal is in immediate danger of succumbing to the heat. If possible, it is better to call the authorities before taking on the property damage liability, unless certain they will not arrive in time. Being on firm ethical ground is not the same as being on firm legal ground.

Would it be different if the entity locked in the car was an infant in a car seat?

I'm reasonably certain that leaving an animal (or child) locked in a hot car is illegal at some level in most states (maybe not Alabama but...)
and where it isn't specifically illegal, "quod est necessarium est licitum" still applies.