Once again you present the story of Jesus speaking as a baby as being the words of God. But this story was stolen from an early book of fables written in about 150ad.
The Qur'an is the word of God Almighty
- Thread starter Muslim75
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Once again you present the story of Jesus speaking as a baby as being the words of God. But this story was stolen from an early book of fables written in about 150ad.
Inevitable
Deist.
- Jun 16, 2014
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I don't hold any particular contempt for Muslims, but Islam is a barbaric and backward religion who's tenets are the threat of violence for any truth being told about it.
The truth be told it is misogynistic, homophobic, anti Semitic and culturally void. Think about anything Islam has ever brought to the world, suicide bombings, honor killings, and death penalties for blasphemy. Nothing that has enriched the world in any way. If anything it is a blight upon any culture infected with it.
Call me a bigot or a racist all you wish, I frankly welcome it. If you feel you need to apologize for Islam I frankly don't value your respect.
Was Muhammad a Liar, madman or prophet. My reading of the quran is that he was a calculating liar who stole the bible stories to scare people into following him. One reason I think this is that he tries to justify himself many times in the quran, as proved by the following quotes. A true prophet would not waste space in the final message to all mankind trying to justify himself to his critics as Muhammad obviously does. Added to that he wrote the whole sura 111 dedicated to cursing his own aunt and uncle, because they did not believe in him.
7.184 Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.
15.6 They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
15.7 Why bring you not angels unto us, if you are of the truthful?
21.5 Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"
36.69 We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:
37.36 And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"
44.14 Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed!"
50.30 Or do they say:- "A Poet! we await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!"
52.29 Therefore proclaim thou the praises (of thy Lord): for by the Grace of thy Lord, thou art no (vulgar) soothsayer, nor art thou one possessed.
68.2 Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
68.51 And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say: "Surely he is possessed!"
69.41 It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!
81.22 and your comrade is not mad.
81.25 Nor is it the word of an evil spirit accursed.
Here are three verses that show many people of Muhammads own time did not believe in him, but he tried to justify himself claiming the holy spirit taught him. But he mistook the meaning of the holy spirit in the bible, thinking the angel Gabriel was the messenger. But the holy spirit is part of the trinity, and it spoke though Jesus and the diciples. The angel Gabriel only announced the coming of John the baptist and Jesus, but gave no message to them.
16.101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
16.102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
7.184 Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.
15.6 They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
15.7 Why bring you not angels unto us, if you are of the truthful?
21.5 Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"
36.69 We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:
37.36 And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"
44.14 Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed!"
50.30 Or do they say:- "A Poet! we await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!"
52.29 Therefore proclaim thou the praises (of thy Lord): for by the Grace of thy Lord, thou art no (vulgar) soothsayer, nor art thou one possessed.
68.2 Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
68.51 And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say: "Surely he is possessed!"
69.41 It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!
81.22 and your comrade is not mad.
81.25 Nor is it the word of an evil spirit accursed.
Here are three verses that show many people of Muhammads own time did not believe in him, but he tried to justify himself claiming the holy spirit taught him. But he mistook the meaning of the holy spirit in the bible, thinking the angel Gabriel was the messenger. But the holy spirit is part of the trinity, and it spoke though Jesus and the diciples. The angel Gabriel only announced the coming of John the baptist and Jesus, but gave no message to them.
16.101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
16.102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
Mr. H.
Diamond Member
I thought Muhammad wrote it while on a seven year acid trip.
Or did he?
Or did he?
You really think, a god who had created THIS universe would have told such unbearable nonsense to a bunch of goatherders in the most disgusting dumpyard of an insignifikant planet???
Listen: if you let your mind go on a stroll you could imagine that our universe might be an experiment of some nerds in a parellel one, who are not restricted to the physical laws they set as parameters for ours. Not restricted to our limitations in time, space, etc. If so, they are fantastic engineers. They would never create such a fatal faulty design as humans are in EVERY aspect to be their image.
They would not just talk, after 13 billion years our time, to seriously mentally retarded epileptics, similar kind in the other desert religions, of course without exception without witnesses, moreover in cryptic senseless babblespeech.
They would just show up if they had the urge to be reckognized by the monkeys. Why? Because they could!
It is NOT about citing or discussing the babblespeech of the Tora, Bible or Quran. This is absolutely meaningless and irrelevant.
It is about the simpliest basics of logic and understanding. I am sick, tired and disgusted by these endless reciting of dumb verses of retarded prophets, apostles and similar bronze age dumbnuts.
- Thread starter
- #526
Why do Muslims read the Qur'an ?
Muslims don't read the Qur'an as a guidebook or book of directions. Muslims read the Qur'an out of cherishing the words of God. The Qur'an is the word of God, not that of Muhammad. This is its object, to be the word of God, from heavens, here on earth. Hence Muslims, cherishing the words of God Almighty, read frequently this book. A serious Muslim does not let a day go by without reading a significant portion of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is divided into 30 sections. One may read 1 section and a half, minimum, each day.
Each verse of the Qur'an, and there are some 6000 of them is an ocean by itself. Rather, it is greater than an ocean. It is so because it is the heavenly word of God. Muslims are asked to read the Qur'an and to ponder over the meanings. Reading is not done without pondering over the meanings. As one ponders over the meanings, one learns new things, so one ponders frequently, and one must try to think deeply. This is so because it is the heavenly word of God. It happens often that one cries as he reads the Qur'an, because he is taken by what he reads. So many chapters in the Qur'an starts with letters like A.L.M. or H.M. or A.L.M.S. or T.S. or Y.S., etc...indicating that the Qur'an is an ocean, a book of mysteries and depth, beyond human understanding.
Verses of Justice
One aspect of the verses of the Qur'an is that they are verses of Justice. Each verse of The Qur'an is a verse of Ideal Justice. This ideal justice does not exist on earth. But we find it in the Qur'an. Al Mahdi (peace be upon him and his family) comes on earth in the end times, this day and age, and fills it with justice. Al Mahdi is the king of mankind. These are the first 7 verses of the Qur'an. Contemplate how each of them is a verse of Ideal Justice. This is true of all the verses in the Qur'an. Also contemplate on how each of them is an ocean, greater than an ocean. As they are heavenly words of God, the more you will think of their meanings, the more you will learn about them.
1. In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful.
2. Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. The Most Merciful, The Great Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. You it is we worship, and Your aid it is we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom You bestowed Your Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who do not go astray.
Muslims don't read the Qur'an as a guidebook or book of directions. Muslims read the Qur'an out of cherishing the words of God. The Qur'an is the word of God, not that of Muhammad. This is its object, to be the word of God, from heavens, here on earth. Hence Muslims, cherishing the words of God Almighty, read frequently this book. A serious Muslim does not let a day go by without reading a significant portion of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is divided into 30 sections. One may read 1 section and a half, minimum, each day.
Each verse of the Qur'an, and there are some 6000 of them is an ocean by itself. Rather, it is greater than an ocean. It is so because it is the heavenly word of God. Muslims are asked to read the Qur'an and to ponder over the meanings. Reading is not done without pondering over the meanings. As one ponders over the meanings, one learns new things, so one ponders frequently, and one must try to think deeply. This is so because it is the heavenly word of God. It happens often that one cries as he reads the Qur'an, because he is taken by what he reads. So many chapters in the Qur'an starts with letters like A.L.M. or H.M. or A.L.M.S. or T.S. or Y.S., etc...indicating that the Qur'an is an ocean, a book of mysteries and depth, beyond human understanding.
Verses of Justice
One aspect of the verses of the Qur'an is that they are verses of Justice. Each verse of The Qur'an is a verse of Ideal Justice. This ideal justice does not exist on earth. But we find it in the Qur'an. Al Mahdi (peace be upon him and his family) comes on earth in the end times, this day and age, and fills it with justice. Al Mahdi is the king of mankind. These are the first 7 verses of the Qur'an. Contemplate how each of them is a verse of Ideal Justice. This is true of all the verses in the Qur'an. Also contemplate on how each of them is an ocean, greater than an ocean. As they are heavenly words of God, the more you will think of their meanings, the more you will learn about them.
1. In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful.
2. Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. The Most Merciful, The Great Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. You it is we worship, and Your aid it is we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom You bestowed Your Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who do not go astray.
- Thread starter
- #527
In the previous post are the first 7 verses of the Qur'an. This is the Chapter called The Opening. It is made of these 7 verses. The second Chapter is called The Cow. It contains 285 verses. These are the first 5 verses of that Chapter, cited here as another example of what I talked of in the previous post, namely ideal justice and verses oceans:
1. A.L.M.
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah (God).
3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to you, and sent before your time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
1. A.L.M.
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah (God).
3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to you, and sent before your time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
It's laughable that islamists practice such taqiyya as promoting Islamism being concerned with justice.
Islamism has never been concerned with justice. Islamism is concerned with making muhammud’s (swish) religion incumbent on all. Islam’s history is one of reinforcing the fascist and misogynistic attitudes of islamist doctrine. The denigration of women in islamist society and their second class status is only denied by its strident apologists. Those misogynistic attitudes (derived from your theocratic code), develop into social constructs, and those social constructs have real and negative impacts on women's freedoms. The engendered hatred for infidels is part of islamist doctrine.
You should make an effort to understand what your politico-religious ideology teaches. Islam has never taught equality as it relates to moslems and non-moslems. Islam clearly demarcates between those two entities. At no time in islamist history have moslems equated non-moslems as equals. In fact, you should understand what dhimmi status implies.
Unfortunately, Islamism has never had an awakening from its pre-rational superstitions! Islam's inventor developed a socio-politico code that functioned in the 7th century because it was useful to motivate muhammud's minions to wars of aggression and conquest. Now that more of the planet has reached an awareness of the benefits of cooperation and equality, we can easily do without this primitive notion of adherence to a politico-religious ideology as bestowing greater rights on the adherents of that ideology.
Do I need to remind you that your religion's inventor, the "model for humanity" and self-entitled developer of the "perfect system for life" defines me and much of the planet as "the worst of beasts"
YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
PICKTHAL: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will As we find so often, not believe.
SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
You actually ponder the meaning of the verses of the Quran and you still believe it is the words of God?
Ponder the following three verses in which God turns people into apes. Does that seem likely to you?
2.65 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
5.60 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from God? those who incurred the curse of God and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
7.166 When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
ninja007
Gold Member
#513 post. Please reply to that post Muslim.
Other than consequences inflicted by the violent followers of Islam and the speculative consequences to be inflicted after death, is there ANY evidence that Islam does a better job of enhancing life in the here and now than its many competitors in the Religion Industry?
I could see buying in to one the competing ancient stories if there were any evidence at all that doing so wasn't a complete waste of time in the here and now.
I could see buying in to one the competing ancient stories if there were any evidence at all that doing so wasn't a complete waste of time in the here and now.
- Thread starter
- #532
The Qur'an is the word of God Almighty, not that of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). The Qur'an is the heavenly and mighty word of the Lord of the worlds, of God Almighty, not that of Muhammad. Here are some of these words of God Almighty:
"While he (Zachariah) was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(Allah, God) gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
"When he (Moses) reached full age, and was firmly established (in life), We bestowed on him wisdom and knowledge: for thus do We reward those who do good."
"Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that you may warm yourselves." But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground: "O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds...."
"To David We gave Solomon (for a son),- How excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!"
"So they found a servant out of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence."
"While he (Zachariah) was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(Allah, God) gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
"When he (Moses) reached full age, and was firmly established (in life), We bestowed on him wisdom and knowledge: for thus do We reward those who do good."
"Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that you may warm yourselves." But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground: "O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds...."
"To David We gave Solomon (for a son),- How excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!"
"So they found a servant out of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence."
If the Quran is the word of God we are all in big trouble. Here is a list of the people Allah has destroyed.
The people of Lot, and Thalmud, and Ad, and Pharaoh, and Sodom and Gomorrah, and Tubba.
Is God a maniac? is God a monster? but most of all is he completely incompetent, that he has to keep destroying people. Well the obvious answer is that God is none of these things, because he did not dictate the quran, it was all made up by Muhammad.
7.4 How many towns have We destroyed (for their sins)? Our punishment took them on a sudden by night or while they slept for their afternoon rest.
8.54 (Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and those before them": They treated as false the Signs of their Lord: so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong- doers.
10.13 Generations before you We destroyed when they did wrong: their apostles came to them with clear-signs, but they would not believe! thus do We requite those who sin!
17.17 How many generations have We destroyed after Noah? and enough is thy Lord to note and see the sins of His servants.
18.59 Such were the populations we destroyed when they committed iniquities; but we fixed an appointed time for their destruction.
19.74 But how many (countless) generations before them have we destroyed, who were even better in equipment and in glitter to the eye?
19.98 But how many (countless) generations before them have We destroyed? Canst thou find a single one of them (now) or hear (so much as) a whisper of them?
44.37 What! Are they better than the people of Tubba and those who were before them? We destroyed them because they were guilty of sin.
053.050 And that it is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient 'Ad (people),
53.53 And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).
54.34 We sent against them a violent Tornado with showers of stones, (which destroyed them), except Lut's household: them We delivered by early Dawn,-
69.5 But the Thamud,- they were destroyed by a terrible Storm of thunder and lightning!
69.6 And the 'Ad, they were destroyed by a furious Wind, exceedingly violent;
- Thread starter
- #534
The Qur'an is the word of God, not that of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). It's God who speaks, not Muhammad, and He is talking to Muhammad. Have a look to these words of God, these words of the Qur'an, look to how relevant they are:
"And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;"
"And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him."
"That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint"
"And to how many populations did I give respite, which were given to wrong-doing? in the end I punished them. To me is the destination (of all)."
"And Allah (God) makes the Signs plain to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom."
"And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;"
"And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him."
"That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint"
"And to how many populations did I give respite, which were given to wrong-doing? in the end I punished them. To me is the destination (of all)."
"And Allah (God) makes the Signs plain to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom."
He did not do a very good job, we still get earthquakes all over the world.
Muhammad abrogated verses himself didn't he. Did God change his mind ?
You're wrong. The various korans are the musings of Uthman who was the compiler and editor.
You should study your koranology so as not to further your display of ignorance on a public discussion board.
- Thread starter
- #538
Forumers,
You may now ponder these verses from the Qur'an:
"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith."
God says here that this book is beyond the ability of humans. He says make a Surah like these Surahs if you but you can never do so. The smallest Surah in the Qur'an is made of 3 verses. So make 3 verses like the verses of the Qur'an if you can. But you can not.
The Qur'an is one of the miracles of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) who is the Seal of the prophets, the last of them. There shall be no prophet after him, this is why the Qur'an applies to all ages until the end of times. It said, in the 7th century:
"And He sent against them Flights of Birds, striking them with stones of baked clay. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up."
These birds did not make mistakes, not touching buildings and killing civilians.
You may now ponder these verses from the Qur'an:
"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith."
God says here that this book is beyond the ability of humans. He says make a Surah like these Surahs if you but you can never do so. The smallest Surah in the Qur'an is made of 3 verses. So make 3 verses like the verses of the Qur'an if you can. But you can not.
The Qur'an is one of the miracles of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) who is the Seal of the prophets, the last of them. There shall be no prophet after him, this is why the Qur'an applies to all ages until the end of times. It said, in the 7th century:
"And He sent against them Flights of Birds, striking them with stones of baked clay. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up."
These birds did not make mistakes, not touching buildings and killing civilians.
defcon4
Platinum Member
- Jan 26, 2015
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"Forumers,"
Isn't faith should come from the inside of a being? Faith cannot be faith if it is forced on someone by fear from the outside. Faith is the conviction of one's soul that what one believes is the truth. Those who want to force their own belief system on others and seem to be successful may have just created a bunch of liars who want to preserve their earthly lives and do not want to be beheaded or drowned or raped. I may turn toward the east three times a day taking up prostrate position when somebody screams from a tower to remind me that I have to do so but inside I may say F%$#@ this shit! I may wear burkha and slave away fore the rest of my life, yet I still say inside F@#$! this shit! So, what's the gain? My soul is not converted I just fear the atrocities if I do not do so. Self preservation.
Ah yes. The old "make a surah like it", nonsense.
That is so silly. What are the objective standards that one must meet to "make a surah like it"? Who will decide when the standard has been met?
I'm afraid you're simply parroting a scam that Islamists have tried before with your your nonsensical "..... surah like it".
There are no objective standards which means that the silly "challenge" is pointless.
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