The Question Conservatives Can't Answer

[georgephillip]

It ain't over, Comrade.
For you and Obama.
Ready for the second DIP?

Comrade? I'm not the fan of ever bigger government, that would be you.
Yes, I'm ready for Obama's last dip.

Me too.
The sooner the better.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One of the best known of Aesop's fables went something like this:

The Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs

A man and his wife were very poor until they acquired a special goose. Every day the goose would lay a golden egg, which allowed the couple to live very comfortable.

"Just think," said the man's wife, "If we could have all the golden eggs that are inside the goose, we could be rich.

"You're right," said her husband, "We wouldn't have to wait for the goose to lay her egg every day."

So, the couple killed the goose and cut her open, only to find one egg. And no more would ever be laid. And once the egg was spent, the couple found themselves poorer than ever.

The moral of the story: Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

Those who think they will prosper more if they can make the rich less rich or unrich might see a small temporary benefit in confiscating wealth from the rich. But alas, once they have made the rich unrich or have driven all the rich to other shores, they will find that there is less money to borrow, less venture capital and grant monies available, less money invested so their portfolios suffer, the hospital wings, scholarship programs, museum exhibits once funded by the rich are no more, and jobs and good wages are in even shorter supply.

Be careful what you wish for oh you enviers of the rich.

Are you under the impression the rich created gold?

Society creates money.
Maroon all the special rich people on a desert Island and see how many golden eggs result.

Here's a better example of what the rich "invest" in today:

"Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Representatives of five of Wall Street's dominant investment banks gathered around a blonde wood conference table on a February night almost three years ago. Their talks over take-out Chinese food led to the perfect formula for a U.S. housing collapse.

The host was Greg Lippmann, then 36, a fast-talking Deutsche Bank AG trader who aspired to make mortgage securities as big a cash cow for Wall Street as the $12 trillion corporate credit market.

"His allies included 34-year-old Rajiv Kamilla, a trader at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. with a background in nuclear physics, and 32-year-old Todd Kushman, who led a contingent from Bear Stearns Cos. Representatives from Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. were also invited.

"Almost 50 traders and lawyers showed up for the first meeting at Deutsche Bank's Wall Street office to help set the trading rules and design the new product.

"'To tell you the truth, it's not very glamorous,'' Lippmann says. `Just a bunch of guys eating Chinese discussing legal arcana.'''

And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history.

Subprime Securities Market Began as `Group of 5' Over Chinese - Bloomberg

"And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history"

Huh? Except for Fannie and Freddie, how is the public now holding formerly private debt?

You keep repeating this baloney with nothing to back it up.

 

[Foxfyre]

One of the best known of Aesop's fables went something like this:



Those who think they will prosper more if they can make the rich less rich or unrich might see a small temporary benefit in confiscating wealth from the rich. But alas, once they have made the rich unrich or have driven all the rich to other shores, they will find that there is less money to borrow, less venture capital and grant monies available, less money invested so their portfolios suffer, the hospital wings, scholarship programs, museum exhibits once funded by the rich are no more, and jobs and good wages are in even shorter supply.

Be careful what you wish for oh you enviers of the rich.

Are you under the impression the rich created gold?

Society creates money.
Maroon all the special rich people on a desert Island and see how many golden eggs result.

Here's a better example of what the rich "invest" in today:

"Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Representatives of five of Wall Street's dominant investment banks gathered around a blonde wood conference table on a February night almost three years ago. Their talks over take-out Chinese food led to the perfect formula for a U.S. housing collapse.

The host was Greg Lippmann, then 36, a fast-talking Deutsche Bank AG trader who aspired to make mortgage securities as big a cash cow for Wall Street as the $12 trillion corporate credit market.

"His allies included 34-year-old Rajiv Kamilla, a trader at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. with a background in nuclear physics, and 32-year-old Todd Kushman, who led a contingent from Bear Stearns Cos. Representatives from Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. were also invited.

"Almost 50 traders and lawyers showed up for the first meeting at Deutsche Bank's Wall Street office to help set the trading rules and design the new product.

"'To tell you the truth, it's not very glamorous,'' Lippmann says. `Just a bunch of guys eating Chinese discussing legal arcana.'''

And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history.

Subprime Securities Market Began as `Group of 5' Over Chinese - Bloomberg

"And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history"

Huh? Except for Fannie and Freddie, how is the public now holding formerly private debt?

You keep repeating this baloney with nothing to back it up.

But give him credit. He did as good a job to avoid getting the point I was making in my post as I've seen lately. That takes talent.

 

[logical4u]

[...] the top 10% pay the majority of taxes in this country.and until communist traitors like you voted in the piece of shit we have in the White House hard working people who invested wisely became more prosperous.

Are you talking about the bankers who worked hard at the sub-prime mortgage scam which has made millions of ordinary working class Americans homeless and broken? Or the hedge-fund speculators who gambled with small investors' money and ruined millions of them? Etcetera. Which grouping of "hard-working" super-rich are you talking about? How "hard" does one need to "work" to "earn" fifty million dollars? A hundred million? A billion? More?

Some of you brainwashed water-carriers for the American neo-aristocracy are truly pathetic. You are a worse threat to the American democracy than the Nazis, Imperial Japan, Al Qaeda or the Taliban ever were. You are a toxic internal scourge.

The bankers are reaping the rewards of supporting Obama's campaign. You have been "sold", just like the rest of us.

 

[georgephillip]

One of the best known of Aesop's fables went something like this:



Those who think they will prosper more if they can make the rich less rich or unrich might see a small temporary benefit in confiscating wealth from the rich. But alas, once they have made the rich unrich or have driven all the rich to other shores, they will find that there is less money to borrow, less venture capital and grant monies available, less money invested so their portfolios suffer, the hospital wings, scholarship programs, museum exhibits once funded by the rich are no more, and jobs and good wages are in even shorter supply.

Be careful what you wish for oh you enviers of the rich.

Are you under the impression the rich created gold?

Society creates money.
Maroon all the special rich people on a desert Island and see how many golden eggs result.

Here's a better example of what the rich "invest" in today:

"Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Representatives of five of Wall Street's dominant investment banks gathered around a blonde wood conference table on a February night almost three years ago. Their talks over take-out Chinese food led to the perfect formula for a U.S. housing collapse.

The host was Greg Lippmann, then 36, a fast-talking Deutsche Bank AG trader who aspired to make mortgage securities as big a cash cow for Wall Street as the $12 trillion corporate credit market.

"His allies included 34-year-old Rajiv Kamilla, a trader at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. with a background in nuclear physics, and 32-year-old Todd Kushman, who led a contingent from Bear Stearns Cos. Representatives from Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. were also invited.

"Almost 50 traders and lawyers showed up for the first meeting at Deutsche Bank's Wall Street office to help set the trading rules and design the new product.

"'To tell you the truth, it's not very glamorous,'' Lippmann says. `Just a bunch of guys eating Chinese discussing legal arcana.'''

And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history.

Subprime Securities Market Began as `Group of 5' Over Chinese - Bloomberg

"And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history"

Huh? Except for Fannie and Freddie, how is the public now holding formerly private debt?

You keep repeating this baloney with nothing to back it up.

You're confusing me with Hank the Punk:

"Paulson oversaw the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind — from taxpayers to insolvent banks and their bondholders.

"His commentary is thinly veiled attempt to rewrite what actually occurred, and to shift his own sad role from conductor of the theft, to hapless victim of long standing government policy."

There.
"Greatest transfer of wealth in history."
That any better?

Hank Paulson 'Rewrites History' - Business - The Atlantic Wire

 

[logical4u]

Are you talking about the bankers who worked hard at the sub-prime mortgage scam which has made millions of ordinary working class Americans homeless and broken? Or the hedge-fund speculators who gambled with small investors' money and ruined millions of them? Etcetera. Which grouping of "hard-working" super-rich are you talking about? How "hard" does one need to "work" to "earn" fifty million dollars? A hundred million? A billion? More?

Some of you brainwashed water-carriers for the American neo-aristocracy are truly pathetic. You are a worse threat to the American democracy than the Nazis, Imperial Japan, Al Qaeda or the Taliban ever was. You are a toxic internal scourge.

You do understand that the "sub-prime mortgage scam" could NOT have happened without massive government involvement through Fannie/Freddie, laws designed to expand home ownership, and the promise of taxpayer backing through the Fed. Banks and other big businesses colluding with government caused the problem. Government meddling is to blame here so what's your solution? More government?

It was Bush's meddling that caused the problem, and every time the GOP screws up they say "government" did it.

It was Bush's Dec 2003 American Dream Downpayment Initiative (ADDI) that changed the rules to allow no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to people with bad credit who could not keep up with the payments and who were at least 20% below the standard of living for the neighborhood they were buying into.

The ADDI was passed in Dec 2003 and everything in housing started to go bad in 2004. Even your MessiahRushie admits 2004 was the turning point for the Bush Housing Crash.

July 7,2010
BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: To illustrate my point even further: "Subprime mortgages accounted for 9 percent of all mortgage originations from 1996 through 2004." But that 9% became 21% from 2004 to 2006, 21% of all mortgages were subprime. Twenty-one percent of all mortgages were essentially money given away to people because they were loans made to people that everybody knew going in would never pay them back. And that 21% of the mortgage market being subprime equaled about $600,000 billion in 2006, which was at the time one-fifth of the US home loan market.

Okay. Now what are you going to do? This administration is repeating the mistakes and taking them to new levels. His fault, your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, the economy is going to CRASH if the government does not stop spending. They could kill all the millionaires and take their money and it wouldn't be enough to support this government for more than a few months. Then what? At what point do you open your eyes and see we are in a really ugly place, and unless we do something, VERY soon, there will be a lot of people starving in THIS country.

When do you say the government has got to stop spending money that we don't have?

If they keep printing it (read about Zimbabwe), we will be paying $200 for a loaf of bread. The food will not be available because farmers will not sell it for worthless paper. The electricity will stop because people will be stealing the metal conductors for monetary exchange. When will you open your eyes?

 

[logical4u]

Are you talking about the bankers who worked hard at the sub-prime mortgage scam which has made millions of ordinary working class Americans homeless and broken? Or the hedge-fund speculators who gambled with small investors' money and ruined millions of them? Etcetera. Which grouping of "hard-working" super-rich are you talking about? How "hard" does one need to "work" to "earn" fifty million dollars? A hundred million? A billion? More?

Some of you brainwashed water-carriers for the American neo-aristocracy are truly pathetic. You are a worse threat to the American democracy than the Nazis, Imperial Japan, Al Qaeda or the Taliban ever was. You are a toxic internal scourge.

You do understand that the "sub-prime mortgage scam" could NOT have happened without massive government involvement through Fannie/Freddie, laws designed to expand home ownership, and the promise of taxpayer backing through the Fed. Banks and other big businesses colluding with government caused the problem. Government meddling is to blame here so what's your solution? More government?

Of course you are technically correct but what you're describing is precisely the kind of scheming which is facilitated by bribery of legislators who change laws, alter and eliminate regulations.

To answer your question: Yes. More government -- but honest government. And the way to ensure that honesty is by imposing severe penalties for the slightest abuse or deliberate irregularity.

Without the cooperation of corrupt officials the transfer of so much of this Nation's wealth to one percent of the population could not have taken place. There were laws and regulations that prevented it but they were removed by Carter, Bush-1, (mainly) Clinton and Bush-2.

Every one of those laws and regulations must be restored and a few more added. Only then will our economy be secure and viable again.

.... "More government -- but honest government" ....
When has that ever happened, in the entire history of the world? Answer please.

 

[logical4u]

I have this suspicion that georgephillip is rich, pays no taxes, and has nothing better to do on a thursday afternoon.

Communist swine!

I paid $727 in federal income taxes in 2010 and got it all back.
I then gave half the refund to the lady who did my taxes for me.
She used most of that money to buy bingo supplies at the non-profit she works at.
I was hoping for a Ferrari...(maybe next Thursday??)

No wonder you are envious.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you under the impression the rich created gold?

Society creates money.
Maroon all the special rich people on a desert Island and see how many golden eggs result.

Here's a better example of what the rich "invest" in today:

"Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Representatives of five of Wall Street's dominant investment banks gathered around a blonde wood conference table on a February night almost three years ago. Their talks over take-out Chinese food led to the perfect formula for a U.S. housing collapse.

The host was Greg Lippmann, then 36, a fast-talking Deutsche Bank AG trader who aspired to make mortgage securities as big a cash cow for Wall Street as the $12 trillion corporate credit market.

"His allies included 34-year-old Rajiv Kamilla, a trader at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. with a background in nuclear physics, and 32-year-old Todd Kushman, who led a contingent from Bear Stearns Cos. Representatives from Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. were also invited.

"Almost 50 traders and lawyers showed up for the first meeting at Deutsche Bank's Wall Street office to help set the trading rules and design the new product.

"'To tell you the truth, it's not very glamorous,'' Lippmann says. `Just a bunch of guys eating Chinese discussing legal arcana.'''

And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history.

Subprime Securities Market Began as `Group of 5' Over Chinese - Bloomberg

"And facilitating the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history"

Huh? Except for Fannie and Freddie, how is the public now holding formerly private debt?

You keep repeating this baloney with nothing to back it up.

You're confusing me with Hank the Punk:

"Paulson oversaw the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind — from taxpayers to insolvent banks and their bondholders.

"His commentary is thinly veiled attempt to rewrite what actually occurred, and to shift his own sad role from conductor of the theft, to hapless victim of long standing government policy."

There.
"Greatest transfer of wealth in history."
That any better?

Hank Paulson 'Rewrites History' - Business - The Atlantic Wire

Why are you quoting what someone else said about Paulson?
Is that supposed to be evidence for your claim?
Wow, you liberals (or are you even more left than that?) aren't real big on evidence for your ridiculous claims.

 

[georgephillip]

"Paulson’s book on the crisis is 'On the Brink.'" It should be titled 'Too Much to Drink.'"

Why are you defending rich parasites?
The evidence for economic collapse isn't hard to see for those of us not living in a bubble.
Maybe you should stick your neck out and look around.

Hank Paulson 'Rewrites History' - Business - The Atlantic Wire

 

[georgephillip]

"The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:

"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.

"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.

"And a question was posed:

"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?

"This question was not posed in sarcasm.

"A factual answer is genuinely sought.

"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.

"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."

Any takers, Cons?

The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams

Thats a joke right?
People being allowed to keep more of there wealth is a bad thing?
I am trying my best to figure out what your saying
Gains?
If I am allowed to keep 10$ more a week of money I earned, thats a Gain?

Yeah, it's a joke and the top 25 hedge fund managers are laughing all the way to the bank.
You know the ones I'm talking about?
The ones who took home an average of $880 million last year by speculating on the cost of oil and food?

Maybe if you took off your ideological blinders it would become easier to figure out?
But then you would have to consider the possibility that some gains in wealth are a bad thing.
And taxation is the least noxious solution.

Tycoons Laughing All the Way to the Bank | Common Dreams

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Paulson’s book on the crisis is 'On the Brink.'" It should be titled 'Too Much to Drink.'"

Why are you defending rich parasites?
The evidence for economic collapse isn't hard to see for those of us not living in a bubble.
Maybe you should stick your neck out and look around.

Hank Paulson 'Rewrites History' - Business - The Atlantic Wire

Rich parasites like Franklin Raines and Chief Financial Officer J. Timothy Howard of Fannie Mae, should be in jail. Let me know if you have any more fraudsters who should be jailed.

Let me know if you find any proof for your "private to public debt" canard.

Thanks!

 

[georgephillip]

Any rich Republicans deserving of jail time?

You're welcome.

 

[georgephillip]

Where's the logic in US elites increasing their share of national income and wealth over the last ten years while the country lost 42,400 factories between 2001 and 2009. There's only been one country in history to lose more jobs in a single ten year period than the US lost between 2001 -'09, and that was the USSR during the last decade of its existence.

Apparently, you see a Constitutional justification for the current level of US inequality.

Care to share it?

Disturbing Statistics on the Decline of America's Middle Class - DailyFinance

"Apparently, you see a Constitutional justification for the current level of US inequality"

Apparently you think the Constitution allows the government to equalize incomes or wealth.

Apparently, you haven't noticed how the Constitution allows Republicans AND Democrats to socialize costs and privatize profits for the benefit of the richest 1% of Americans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Any rich Republicans deserving of jail time?

You're welcome.

Any rich Republicans work for Fannie Mae?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where's the logic in US elites increasing their share of national income and wealth over the last ten years while the country lost 42,400 factories between 2001 and 2009. There's only been one country in history to lose more jobs in a single ten year period than the US lost between 2001 -'09, and that was the USSR during the last decade of its existence.

Apparently, you see a Constitutional justification for the current level of US inequality.

Care to share it?

Disturbing Statistics on the Decline of America's Middle Class - DailyFinance

"Apparently, you see a Constitutional justification for the current level of US inequality"

Apparently you think the Constitution allows the government to equalize incomes or wealth.

Apparently, you haven't noticed how the Constitution allows Republicans AND Democrats to socialize costs and privatize profits for the benefit of the richest 1% of Americans.

I didn't see that in the Constitution.
Perhaps you'd show where you see it?

Meanwhile, I'll wait for you to post the evidence of your other silly claims.

 

[georgephillip]

Wow! Scary quote.
Your link had no details.
Try again?

Any luck with Blodget's silly number?
Or have we given up on that one?

Any luck refuting "Blodget's silly number?"

"But it turns out that that $700 billion (TARP) is just a small part of a much larger pool of money that has gone into propping up our nation’s financial system. And most of that taxpayer money hasn’t had much public scrutiny at all.

"According to a team at Bloomberg News, at one point last year the U.S. had lent, spent or guaranteed as much as $12.8 trillion to rescue the economy.

"The Bloomberg reporters have been following that money. Alison Stewart spoke with one, Bob Ivry, to talk about the true cost to the taxpayer of the Wall Street bailout."

The true cost of the bank bailout | Need to Know

Come back?

You want me to refute the number Blodget pulled out of his ass?

Lent, spent or guaranteed?

Post the details and we can discuss further.

"The government took over the mortgage lending guarantors Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (privatizing the profits, 'socializing' the losses) for $5.3 trillion – almost as much as the entire national debt.

"The Treasury lent $700 billion under the Troubled Asset Relief Plan (TARP) to Wall Street’s largest banks and brokerage houses.

"The latter re-incorporated themselves as 'banks' to get Federal Reserve handouts and access to the Fed’s $2 trillion in 'cash for trash' swaps crediting Wall Street with Fed deposits for otherwise 'illiquid' loans and securities (the euphemism for toxic, fraudulent or otherwise insolvent and unmarketable debt instruments) – at 'cost' based on full mark-to-model fictitious valuations.

"Altogether, the post-2008 crash saw some $13 trillion in such obligations transferred onto the government’s balance sheet from high finance, euphemized as 'the private sector' as if it were the core economy itself, rather than its calcifying shell.

"Instead of losing on their bad bets, bad loans, toxic mortgages and outright fraudulent claims, the financial institutions cleaned up, at public expense.

"They collected enough to create a new century’s power elite to lord it over “taxpayers” in industry, agriculture and commerce who will be charged to pay off this debt.

"If there was a silver lining to all this, it has been to demonstrate that if the Treasury and Federal Reserve can create $13 trillion of public obligations – money – electronically on computer keyboards, there really is no Social Security problem at all, no Medicare shortfall, no inability of the American government to rebuild the nation’s infrastructure."

How a $13 Trillion Cover Story was Written | Michael Hudson

 

[georgephillip]

The only losses I see taxpayers covering are Fannie and Freddie.
The Dems best friends.

Mark Pittman had much better eyesight than you do.
Maybe he still does?

"A former police-beat reporter who joined Bloomberg News in 1997, Pittman wrote stories in 2007 predicting the collapse of the banking system.

"That year, he won the Gerald Loeb Award from the UCLA Anderson School of Management, the highest accolade in financial journalism, for 'Wall Street’s Faustian Bargain,' a series of articles on the breakdown of the U.S. mortgage industry..."

Look harder.

Mark Pittman, Reporter Who Challenged Fed Secrecy, Dies at 52 - Bloomberg

Look harder to prove your claim?
I'm not sure you understand how this debate thingie works.

I'm not sure you understand corruption.

"His (Mark Pittman's) June 29, 2007, article, headlined 'S&P, Moody’s Hide Rising Risk on $200 Billion of Mortgage Bonds,' was excoriated at the time by Portfolio.com for 'trying to play "gotcha" with the ratings agencies.'

“'And that really isn’t helpful,' said the posting.

"Pittman’s story proved prescient.

"So did his reports on U.S. banks exporting toxic mortgages overseas, on Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson’s role in creating those troubled assets while he was chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and on the U.S. bailout of American International Group Inc."

Mark Pittman, Reporter Who Challenged Fed Secrecy, Dies at 52 - Bloomberg

 

[georgephillip]

"...giving the public goods and services like televisions....computers"

Where do you suppose those televisions and computers are manufactured today?

"According to one economist, the country(USA) currently doesn't produce any television sets.

"Computer manufacturing in the U.S. employs about 166,000 people; in 1975, it employed almost 300,000. Meanwhile, Asia's computer manufacturing sector has about 1.5 million workers and a single tech manufacturer, Foxconn, employs more than 800,000 people.

"If the name Foxconn sounds familiar, it's because the company entered the news earlier this year when twelve of its employees at one factory committed suicide. In the months that followed the suicide cluster, disturbing facts emerged about the facility, which produced Apple iPods.

Disturbing Statistics on the Decline of America's Middle Class - DailyFinance

Please.
Greed is not a virtue.
It's a mental disorder.
Like suicide or capitalism.

Yes, they also hire millions of people abroad. Just as foreign countries hire millions of Americans. Nothing you said refuted my argument because millions of people are still being hired in the US because rich people have the money to finance the employed. And now they are hiring people abroad as well.

You call it greedy to create and sell a product that people want to buy? That sounds like common sense, not greed, to me. People like you are greedy for wanting to steal that money from them and use it for yourself without producing anything of value. Producing and selling wonderful projects is not greed. Taking money away from the people who do out of envy disguised as altruism is greed.

Who are they?
Who's hired millions of Americans lately?

Since January 2008, 8.7 million American jobs have been lost and only 1.8 million have been recovered.

13.9 million Americans were unemployed in July 2011.
Before-tax US corporate profits increased by $140.3 billion in the first quarter of 2011.

Think there might be a connection?
There is.

Greed.

The Latest on Our Sputtering Economy, by the Numbers - ProPublica

 

[georgephillip]

"The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:

"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.

"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.

"And a question was posed:

"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?

"This question was not posed in sarcasm.

"A factual answer is genuinely sought.

"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.

"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."

Any takers, Cons?

The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams

They Earned the Money, Paid taxes on the Money, then invested the money and earned even more, and paid taxes on that Gain as well. They pay 90% of the Tax burden and you people want to try and say, that's not enough.

You keep talking about people "paying their Fair Share" So do you really believe the fair share of 51% of Americans should = 0% of their Income Paid in Federal Income Tax? Or Better yet the 30% of them that actually get more money back from the Fed than they pay in, due to Earned income Credits, and Child Credits.

Are you actually going to sit here and say that it is fair that 30% of the people get more back than they pay in, another 21% pay 0, and the remaining 49% pay the entire Federal Income tax load? with the top 2% paying nearly 90% of it all?

That's your definition of Fair?

Fish rot from the head down.

I don't think this Republic is in any danger from people who earn $9000 a year and pay no federal income tax. I do think people "earning" over 20% of total US income, largely from gambling with minimally taxed financial instruments, pose an existential threat to it.

FWIW, I don't see anything fair about current US tax brackets.
Robert Reich has suggested creating four new ones.

Incomes between $500,000/year and $5,000,000/year would pay at a 50% rate.
Incomes between $5,000,000/year and $15,000,000/year would pay 60%.
Incomes over $15,000,000/year would pay 70%.
Incomes under $100,000/year would see "substantial" reductions in their tax rates

I also think it's unfair to tax unearned income at a lower rate than earned income.