The Problem With keynesian economics

[Quantum Windbag]

everyone wants to use his [Keynes] theory to justify all sorts of things he didn't believe in.

ok liberal tell us exactly what he believed in?? Why are you so afraid? What does your fear tell us about your IQ and character??

You can't even get my politics right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

I am constantly fascinated by the right wing fight against success. Success that helped the nation and all its people and not just the privileged. The battle goes on with them and the people have been dead for a long time. Does that not say something about their ideas?

A Review of Keynesian Theory

"Along with Great Britain, President Reagan announced that the U.S. would also follow a monetarist policy. However, this was simply a cover story, meant for public consumption only. In reality, the government's policies were thoroughly Keynesian. Government borrowing and spending exploded under Reagan, with the national debt climbing to $3 trillion by the time he left office. Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, battled inflation during the severe recession of 1980-82 through the Keynesian method of raising interest rates and tightening the money supply. When inflation looked defeated in 1982, he abruptly slashed the prime rate and flooded the economy with money. A few months later, the economy roared to life, in a recovery that would last over seven years. The American experience was in direct contrast to Great Britain's. As a result, most economists abandoned monetarist theory."

Now you are making up quotes and putting people's names on them. How long have you been doing that?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Except those "subprime" loans that Freddie and Fannie were allegedly giving away were not actually subprime:

dear, if I said they were I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal strawman between your legs once again.

Can you add two and two? If FF were not involved in the subprime or risky lending, then how could they be the cause of subprime mortgage crisis?

very very simple:

1) they were very very much involved in "Read Reckless Endangerment"

2) Fannie and Freddie bought 25.2% of the record $272.81 billion in subprime MBS [mortgage-backed securities] sold in the first half of 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance Publications, a Bethesda, MD-based publisher that covers the home loan industry.

In 2005, Fannie and Freddie purchased 35.3% of all subprime MBS, the publication estimated. The year before, the two purchased almost 44% of all subprime MBS sold.

In addition, lawmakers in both parties enacted policies directed at increasing home ownership rates, resulting in lower mortgage underwriting standards for Fannie and Freddie. Roberts notes that from 2000 on, Fannie and Freddie bought loans with low FICO scores, loans with very low down payments, and loans with little or no documentation

3) what they didn't buy they influenced by taking the best loans and leaving the crumbs to the others

4) The Fed had a specific policy to stimulate the housing market and succeeded as did FHA and CRA.

Only a pure fool could say with a straight face that a liberal governemnt was not in large part responsible

 

[itfitzme]

Doesn't matter which one you use, take a look at the world and the effect of the tight money supply we currently have.

Of course it matters. Otherwise it's just arbitrarily picking the one that suits ones bias.

So far, the idea just sounds like a load of carp.

Perhaps it might be easer to just look at the exchange rate.

If I gave you examples you would dismiss them as proof of my bias, if you fond them yourself you can't lie to yourself as easily.

By the way, exchange rates are only effective at showing inflation when both sides of the exchange have disparate rates of inflation and the currency is actually traded freely. Various countries in the Eurozone have highly disparate inflation, yet they all use the same currency. If we used your standard none of them would show any inflation.

What are you talking about? I don't have a measure for "currency inflation". I was asking what Ed's measure of currency inflation was. And you piped up and presented commodity prices. So I'm asking, which ones?

Be specific. If you just making generalized claims of "some commodities" then your full of carp. If you can't measure it, you full of carp.

 

[ilia25]

everyone wants to use his [Keynes] theory to justify all sorts of things he didn't believe in.

ok liberal tell us exactly what he believed in?? Why are you so afraid? What does your fear tell us about your IQ and character??

You can't even get my politics right.

LOL, that's because he is an idiot. But he is right about inflation -- printing money does not have any effect if they are not being spent. And that is the reason the economy is depressed -- no one spends, everyone tries to save as much as they can.

And that is why the government has to step in and increase spending.

 

[itfitzme]

dear, if I said they were I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal strawman between your legs once again.

Can you add two and two? If FF were not involved in the subprime or risky lending, then how could they be the cause of subprime mortgage crisis?

very very simple:

1) they were very very much involved in "Read Reckless Endangerment"

2) Fannie and Freddie bought 25.2% of the record $272.81 billion in subprime MBS [mortgage-backed securities] sold in the first half of 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance Publications, a Bethesda, MD-based publisher that covers the home loan industry.

In 2005, Fannie and Freddie purchased 35.3% of all subprime MBS, the publication estimated. The year before, the two purchased almost 44% of all subprime MBS sold.

In addition, lawmakers in both parties enacted policies directed at increasing home ownership rates, resulting in lower mortgage underwriting standards for Fannie and Freddie. Roberts notes that from 2000 on, Fannie and Freddie bought loans with low FICO scores, loans with very low down payments, and loans with little or no documentation

3) what they didn't buy they influenced by taking the best loans and leaving the crumbs to the others

4) The Fed had a specific policy to stimulate the housing market and succeeded as did FHA and CRA.

Only a pure fool could say with a straight face that a liberal governemnt was not in large part responsible

You are insane.

 

[ilia25]

dear, if I said they were I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal strawman between your legs once again.

Can you add two and two? If FF were not involved in the subprime or risky lending, then how could they be the cause of subprime mortgage crisis?

very very simple:

1) they were very very much involved in "Read Reckless Endangerment"

2) Fannie and Freddie bought 25.2% of the record $272.81 billion in subprime MBS [mortgage-backed securities] sold in the first half of 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance Publications, a Bethesda, MD-based publisher that covers the home loan industry.

In 2005, Fannie and Freddie purchased 35.3% of all subprime MBS, the publication estimated. The year before, the two purchased almost 44% of all subprime MBS sold.

In addition, lawmakers in both parties enacted policies directed at increasing home ownership rates, resulting in lower mortgage underwriting standards for Fannie and Freddie. Roberts notes that from 2000 on, Fannie and Freddie bought loans with low FICO scores, loans with very low down payments, and loans with little or no documentation

3) what they didn't buy they influenced by taking the best loans and leaving the crumbs to the others

4) The Fed had a specific policy to stimulate the housing market and succeeded as did FHA and CRA.

Only a pure fool could say with a straight face that a liberal governemnt was not in large part responsible

I just see you copy pasting the same BS over and over again. FF issued very little high-risk loans, and that is a fact. They were not driving subprime lending.

And in any case, the mortgage crisis caused a deep recession in 2008, but it did not cause the following years of depression. The depression was caused by the policy makes, who forgot the lessons of the 30s and, specifically, the Keynes theory.

 

[rdean]

The Problem With keynesian economics

is that it works.

Trickle down does not.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Problem With keynesian economics

is that it works.

Trickle down does not.

The real problem is it has never been tried.

 

[DSGE]

we have easy money now and it is not inflationary concern because few are spending the money

I think Milton Friedman might disagree. Low interest rates are a sign of extremely tight monetary policies.

The Invisibility of Market Monetarism - Forbes

Who knows what he would have thought with interest rates at 0% and the Fed's balance sheet at $3.5 trillion

We do. He told us.

Reviving Japan | Hoover Institution

Macro and Other Market Musings: Brad DeLong, Jim Grant, and Milton Friedman

 

[DSGE]

The Problem With keynesian economics

is that it works.

Trickle down does not.

Keynesian economics and trickle down aren't even in the same class of study. Trickle down is a growth theory, Keynesian economics is a business cycle theory. They're not comparable.

 

[midcan5]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

I am constantly fascinated by the right wing fight against success. Success that helped the nation and all its people and not just the privileged. The battle goes on with them and the people have been dead for a long time. Does that not say something about their ideas?

A Review of Keynesian Theory

"Along with Great Britain, President Reagan announced that the U.S. would also follow a monetarist policy. However, this was simply a cover story, meant for public consumption only. In reality, the government's policies were thoroughly Keynesian. Government borrowing and spending exploded under Reagan, with the national debt climbing to $3 trillion by the time he left office. Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, battled inflation during the severe recession of 1980-82 through the Keynesian method of raising interest rates and tightening the money supply. When inflation looked defeated in 1982, he abruptly slashed the prime rate and flooded the economy with money. A few months later, the economy roared to life, in a recovery that would last over seven years. The American experience was in direct contrast to Great Britain's. As a result, most economists abandoned monetarist theory."

Now you are making up quotes and putting people's names on them. How long have you been doing that?

Check: John Maynard Keynes Quotes - BrainyQuote and the second quote was from the link just above it. Can you read? Many of my quotes come from reading, something you'll need to ask mommy about. She can help you with the big words. I would neg rep you if I were a right wing asshole who makes unfounded statements but that would stoop to your level and other clowns. Next time check.

_

 

[editec]

The problem with Keynsian economic responses to monetary deflationary depressions is that nobody (not even FDR) actually ever tried to DO a REAL Keynesian response.

The efforts are always half hearted and as the originator of this thread quite CORRECTLY pointed out, when the economic situation goes back to normal, the MASTERS OF CAPITAL never remove the EXCESS capital from circulation.

AFter thought

I must give credit to Truman, and Ike's admins, however, for taxing enough to at least attempt to pay off the cost of world war II -- which WAS a Keynesian type economic response

 

[DSGE]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

I am constantly fascinated by the right wing fight against success. Success that helped the nation and all its people and not just the privileged. The battle goes on with them and the people have been dead for a long time. Does that not say something about their ideas?

A Review of Keynesian Theory

"Along with Great Britain, President Reagan announced that the U.S. would also follow a monetarist policy. However, this was simply a cover story, meant for public consumption only. In reality, the government's policies were thoroughly Keynesian. Government borrowing and spending exploded under Reagan, with the national debt climbing to $3 trillion by the time he left office. Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, battled inflation during the severe recession of 1980-82 through the Keynesian method of raising interest rates and tightening the money supply. When inflation looked defeated in 1982, he abruptly slashed the prime rate and flooded the economy with money. A few months later, the economy roared to life, in a recovery that would last over seven years. The American experience was in direct contrast to Great Britain's. As a result, most economists abandoned monetarist theory."

Now you are making up quotes and putting people's names on them. How long have you been doing that?

Check: John Maynard Keynes Quotes - BrainyQuote and the second quote was from the link just above it. Can you read? Many of my quotes come from reading, something you'll need to ask mommy about. She can help you with the big words. I would neg rep you if I were a right wing asshole who makes unfounded statements but that would stoop to your level and other clowns. Next time check.

_

Well BrainyQuote doesn't source it. Could you please reference the paper where Keynes says this? That's not unreasonable, is it? I wouldn't ask you to swallow "Bitches be trippin'" ~ John Maynard Keynes, without a source, would I?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

I am constantly fascinated by the right wing fight against success. Success that helped the nation and all its people and not just the privileged. The battle goes on with them and the people have been dead for a long time. Does that not say something about their ideas?

A Review of Keynesian Theory

"Along with Great Britain, President Reagan announced that the U.S. would also follow a monetarist policy. However, this was simply a cover story, meant for public consumption only. In reality, the government's policies were thoroughly Keynesian. Government borrowing and spending exploded under Reagan, with the national debt climbing to $3 trillion by the time he left office. Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, battled inflation during the severe recession of 1980-82 through the Keynesian method of raising interest rates and tightening the money supply. When inflation looked defeated in 1982, he abruptly slashed the prime rate and flooded the economy with money. A few months later, the economy roared to life, in a recovery that would last over seven years. The American experience was in direct contrast to Great Britain's. As a result, most economists abandoned monetarist theory."

Now you are making up quotes and putting people's names on them. How long have you been doing that?

Check: John Maynard Keynes Quotes - BrainyQuote and the second quote was from the link just above it. Can you read? Many of my quotes come from reading, something you'll need to ask mommy about. She can help you with the big words. I would neg rep you if I were a right wing asshole who makes unfounded statements but that would stoop to your level and other clowns. Next time check.

_

You should do some basic research occasionally.

The quote you attributed to Keynes did not appear anywhere in print or on the internet before 2001. Given that he died in 1945 it is highly unlikely that he actually said it at that point in time. If he had said it before then there should be some record of it somewhere else.

It is not from any of his books, and it cannot be found in a Google Books search. You repeating a quote just because you like it when you claim your goal is to educate people means that you personally are standing behind the accuracy of that quote. Try that in an academic environment and watch all the real academics and intellectuals ignore you for making up words and putting other people's names on them.

Checking out weird quotes when you post them does not make me a fool, but I do thank you for the rep you used in an attempt to make yourself look like the bigger man. Calling me out in public was a nice touch, I enjoy actually proving to everyone else which of us is the real fool.

I don't expect an apology, nor do I expect you to admit you are wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong about either of those points.

 

[Widdekind]

Public Government spending is not per se the problem. But mis-spending,

1) krugman says spending on weapons will end the depression even if you dump them into the sea...

Paul Krugman is not John Maynard Keynes. This thread is not about "Krugman-ianism" but "Keynes-ianism".

That said, Paul Krugman observed (Great Unraveling, p.89) that the New Deal was only a limited Fiscal stimulus, and so only partially successful; and that the unlimited Fiscal stimulus, motivated by WWII, was completely successful:

There is nothing magical about military spending -- it provides no more economic stimulus than the same amount spent on, say, cleaning up toxic waste sites. The reason WWII accomplished what the New Deal could not, was simply that war removed the usual inhibitions. Until Pearl Harbor, Franklin Roosevelt didn't have the determination or the legislative clout to enact really large programs to stimulate the economy. But war made it not just possible, but necessary, for the government to spend on a previously inconceivable scale, restoring full employment for the first time since 1929.

Richard Koo confirms the same story, for Japan, in the 1990s-2000s. Big Fiscal stimuli always helped, whereas balanced budgets (no Fiscal stimulus) always hurt, the Japanese economy. Fiscal stimuli are appropriate, for "balance sheet recessions", when the private sector is not borrowing money, so that Government borrowing does not "crowd out" the private sector. Of course, normally, Government Taxing-and-spending does "crowd out" private sector spending, and does represent inefficient "meddling" in the economy, and is not advisable.

Without advocating Taxes, economically, Government expenditures financed by Taxes, taken from the private sector, are as sustainable as that private sector. Taking Taxes "crowds out" private sector saving & spending. But, there are "Public goods" (Regional, Global assets) that only Government can properly protect, police, produce and/or exploit.

Keynes never advocated mis-spending. Building "roads to nowhere", or paying people to "stand around", represent mis-spending. But, building valuable infrastructure ("roads to somewhere") can be beneficial, in certain circumstances.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Keynes never advocated mis-spending.

government spending is mis-spending or mal investment or bubble spending because one liberal bureaucrat guesses what to spend the whole countries money on instead of the whole country deciding over time what it wants to sustainably spend its own hard money on.


Please post that on your fridge and think about it every day until eventually it sinks in.

 

[itfitzme]

Keynes never advocated mis-spending.

government spending is mis-spending or mal investment or bubble spending because one liberal bureaucrat guesses what to spend the whole countries money on instead of the whole country deciding over time what it wants to sustainably spend its own hard money on.


Please post that on your fridge and think about it every day until eventually it sinks in.

Yeah, and right below it put

Weather satellites
Postal service
Interstate highway system
Center for Disease Control
US Military
Public education

 

[midcan5]

So now the wingnuts want a specific source for quotes, interesting as I have tried to confirm quotes from you winguts with no luck. Having read Keynes, the quote is consistent with his thinking and a few quotes with sources are below. Since you birdbrains get your thoughts from corporate big money, I find it ironic you'd question another with no proof. Do you tools proof your corporate brain?

But since I add my own thoughts, no need to question the quote, question me and I will confirm your stupidity. That's easy. If Keynes didn't say it, fine, it still fits and I'll attach my name to it anytime.

"To suggest social action for the public good to the City of London is like discussing the Origin of Species with a bishop sixty years ago. The first reaction is not intellectual, but moral. An orthodoxy is in question, and the more persuasive the arguments the graver the offence." John Maynard Keynes http://membres.multimania.fr/yannickperez/site/Keynes la fin du laissez Faire.PDF

"Material poverty provides the incentive to change precisely in situations where there is very little margin for experiments. Material prosperity removes the incentive just when it might be safe to take a chance. Europe lacks the means, America the will, to make a move. We need a new set of convictions which spring naturally from candid examination of our own inner feelings in relation to the outside facts." John Maynard Keynes

PS because a quote appears after an author's death is a meaningless argument. I often take pieces from Tony Judt and he too is sadly gone. You people are fools plain and simple.

Later edit:

"I do not know which makes a man more conservative — to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." LOL I am not home in Philly today so I can't pull my Keynes off the shelf for fun to quote, but I do have the PDF with the this quote on my PC. And to add to my comment above, one, to be honest would need to search all references to Keynes to disprove the quote. Do you know that it was not quoted in a biography or opinion piece from friend or even foe. Carry on conservatives, oh I mean whine on, you guys do that so well.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So now the wingnuts want a specific source for quotes, interesting as I have tried to confirm quotes from you winguts with no luck. Having read Keynes, the quote is consistent with his thinking and a few quotes with sources are below. Since you birdbrains get your thoughts from corporate big money, I find it ironic you'd question another with no proof. Do you tools proof your corporate brain?

But since I add my own thoughts, no need to question the quote, question me and I will confirm your stupidity. That's easy. If Keynes didn't say it, fine, it still fits and I'll attach my name to it anytime.

"To suggest social action for the public good to the City of London is like discussing the Origin of Species with a bishop sixty years ago. The first reaction is not intellectual, but moral. An orthodoxy is in question, and the more persuasive the arguments the graver the offence." John Maynard Keynes http://membres.multimania.fr/yannickperez/site/Keynes%20la%20fin%20du%20laissez%20Faire.PDF

"Material poverty provides the incentive to change precisely in situations where there is very little margin for experiments. Material prosperity removes the incentive just when it might be safe to take a chance. Europe lacks the means, America the will, to make a move. We need a new set of convictions which spring naturally from candid examination of our own inner feelings in relation to the outside facts." John Maynard Keynes

PS because a quote appears after an author's death is a meaningless argument. I often take pieces from Tony Judt and he too is sadly gone. You people are fools plain and simple.

Later edit:

"I do not know which makes a man more conservative — to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." LOL I am not home in Philly today so I can't pull my Keynes off the shelf for fun to quote, but I do have the PDF with the this quote on my PC. And to add to my comment above, one, to be honest would need to search all references to Keynes to disprove the quote. Do you know that it was not quoted in a biography or opinion piece from friend or even foe. Carry on conservatives, oh I mean whine on, you guys do that so well.

The APA is wingnut organization?

Purdue OWL: APA Formatting and Style Guide

Who knew.

If you take stuff from Tony Judt even though he is dead I am assuming you take it from stuff he wrote before he died. The quote you attribute to Keynes did not exist anywhere in print or on the internet before 2000. How do you explain that it was sitting around for 55 years and no one ever saw it, and they still can't point to anywhere where he wrote it down, or to anyone that says they heard him say it?