The Problem With Christian Nationalism

[progressive hunter]

Wrong.
Socialism NEVER implies federal, and anyone who thinks it does, is totally and completely ignorant.
If social programs like schools and roads are not done well, then it is the fault of a lack of local participation.
You have to lobby, vote, form groups, etc.
Crime is deliberately "off the chart" by the War on Drugs, so money can be made arresting, fining, forfeiting assets, etc.
Utilities should be based on "ability to pay" is they were done the most socialist.
Anything with pooled resources ARE socialist.
That is what socialism is.
Again, you just know nothing at all about socialism or its historic evolution of human nature.

I never said it implies feds,,

the schools are shit because of government intrusion that pushs the parents out and controls what is taught as we see from whats happening in maryland and the virginias where parents are put on terrorist watch lists for speaking out,,

current crime is from lack of prosecution not the drug wars, proven by more and more states legalizing drugs in one form or another,,

utilities should be based on what you use not what you can pay,, the problem now is once again the government trying to control the people through regulations,,

anything with pooled resources are people working together " social compact"... unless its forced through government without authority to do so,,

face it,, your form of socialism sucks balls,, and we are not meant to be that form and our laws dont allow for it,,,


I see you didnt bring up healthcare,, would that be because since the government got involved " socialized it" prices have skyrocketed to the point people cant afford it on their own and forced to turn to the government for help??

what about higher education that was reasonably affordable before the government got involved and the prices skyrocketed and those that went are now begging the government for help??

yeah your form of socialism sucks balls,,

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

That is foolish.
All human societies were hunter/gatherer for over a million years.
Mind trying to explain how you can possibly do a hunter/gatherer society without it being socialist?
So do you think those who had a successful hunt survived and any that did not, starved to death, along with all their relatives?

Mind explaining how you can possibly believe that we are still hunter/gatherers? There is nobody in my life who goes out and shoots my meat for me.


.

 

[Rigby5]

Except.....they weren't.
They were all over the place..

The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Christianity, Enlightenment & Religion | Britannica

For some time the question of the religious faith of the Founding Fathers has generated a culture war in the United States. Scholars trained in research universities have generally argued that the majority of the Founders were religious rationalists or Unitarians. Pastors and other writers who

www.britannica.com

And being "all over the place" is what they got right.
The European and Mideast religions were awful, and still are.
Any influence they had was negative.

 

[g5000]

The majority of colonists were Protestants, but the Founders were mostly Deists.
These are not all Founders, but you will be surprised how many are.
Not only did most Founders not believe in Christ, but Christ never made sense and if pretty foolish really.
Dying does not at all help the sins of anyone.

{...

Born 1700-1800​

• Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790), American polymath; one of the Founding Fathers of the United States[13]
• Émilie du Châtelet (1706–1749), French mathematician, physicist, and author during the Age of Enlightenment. Her crowning achievement is considered to be her translation and commentary on Isaac Newton's work Principia Mathematica.[14]
• Mikhail Lomonosov (1711–1765), Russian polymath, scientist and writer, who made important contributions to literature, education, and science. Among his discoveries was the atmosphere of Venus. His spheres of science were natural science, chemistry, physics, mineralogy, history, art, philology, optical devices and others. Lomonosov was also a poet and influenced the formation of the modern Russian literary language.[15][16]
• Jean le Rond d'Alembert (1717–1783), French mathematician, mechanician, physicist, philosopher, and music theorist. He was also co-editor with Denis Diderot of the Encyclopédie.[17]
• Adam Smith (1723–1790), Scottish philosopher and economist; considered the father of modern economics[18]
• James Hutton (1726–1797), Scottish physician, geologist, naturalist, chemical manufacturer and experimental agriculturalist. His work helped to establish the basis of modern geology. His theories of geology and geologic time, also called deep time, came to be included in theories which were called plutonism and uniformitarianism.[19][20]
• Gotthold Ephraim Lessing (1729–1781), German writer, philosopher, dramatist, publicist, and art critic[21]
• Moses Mendelssohn (1729–1796), German philosopher influential in the Jewish Haskalah[22]
• George Washington (1732–1799), American soldier, statesman, and Founding Father, who served as the first president of the United States from 1789 to 1797[citation needed].
• James Watt (1736–1819), Scottish inventor and mechanical engineer whose improvements to the Newcomen steam engine were fundamental to the changes brought by the Industrial Revolution in both his native Great Britain and the rest of the world.[23][24]
• Thomas Paine (1737–1809), English pamphleteer, revolutionary, radical, inventor, and intellectual, and one of the Founding Fathers of the United States[25]
• Ethan Allen (1738–89), early American revolutionary and guerrilla leader[26]
• Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), author of the Jefferson Bible, an American Founding Father, the principal author of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, and the third President of the United States.[27][28][29]
• Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829), French naturalist. He was a soldier, biologist, academic, and an early proponent of the idea that evolution occurred and proceeded in accordance with natural laws.[30]
• Johann Adam Weishaupt (1748–1830), Bavarian philosopher, canon law professor and founder of the Illuminati[31]
• James Madison (1751–1836), "Father of the United States Constitution", one of the Founding Fathers of the United States, and the 4th President of the United States[32]
• James Monroe (1758-1831), Founding Father of the United States and fifth president of the United States; held various other roles in the government of the United States. Monroe almost never discussed religion but used Deist language in speeches and was a Freemason, who were largely Deists at the time.[33]
• Friedrich Schiller (1759–1805), German poet, philosopher, historian, and playwright.[34]
• Maximilien Robespierre (1758–1794), French revolutionary and lawyer[35]
• Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), American author and advocate of deism[36]
• Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777–1855), German mathematician and physical scientist who contributed significantly to many fields, including number theory, statistics, analysis, differential geometry, geodesy, geophysics, electrostatics, astronomy and optics.[37][38][39][40][41]
• Humphry Davy (1778–1829), British chemist and inventor.[42]
• Charles Lyell (1797–1875), British lawyer and the foremost geologist of his day. He is best known as the author of Principles of Geology, which popularised James Hutton's concepts of uniformitarianism.[43]
• ...}

Whatever their beliefs, the Founders came from similar religious backgrounds. Most were Protestants. The largest number were raised in the three largest Christian traditions of colonial America—Anglicanism (as in the cases of John Jay, George Washington, and Edward Rutledge), Presbyterianism (as in the cases of Richard Stockton and the Rev. John Witherspoon), and Congregationalism (as in the cases of John Adams and Samuel Adams). Other Protestant groups included the Society of Friends (Quakers), the Lutherans, and the Dutch Reformed. Three Founders—Charles Carroll and Daniel Carroll of Maryland and Thomas Fitzsimmons of Pennsylvania—were of Roman Catholic heritage.

The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Christianity, Enlightenment & Religion | Britannica

For some time the question of the religious faith of the Founding Fathers has generated a culture war in the United States. Scholars trained in research universities have generally argued that the majority of the Founders were religious rationalists or Unitarians. Pastors and other writers who

www.britannica.com

 

[Rigby5]

One of their founding platforms is enshrined in the Bill Of Rights. They and the Methodists and Presbyterians got Jefferson elected VP and then Prez, and kept the faction of Federalists who wanted to make the Anglican Church the national government sect from succeeding.

And Jefferson was a Deist.

 

[Nobody911]

There are some Nazi-adjacent politicians these days claiming they are "Christian Nationalists".

So what is Christian Nationalism, you may be wondering.

Well, they want to trash the First Amendment and have our federal government declare we are a Christian nation.

In the same way White Nationalists want a white nation.

Marjorie Taylor Greene has declared herself a CN. I don't know what Bible she has which allows for an open marriage, though. I don't know what Bible she has which sanctions bearing false witness against others.

Maybe she ripped out a few pages here and there. I don't know.

The problem with Christian Nationalism is, which brand of Christianity will we be? I certainly don't want to be MTG's brand!

In 1802, the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut wrote to Founder Thomas Jefferson to tell him of their plight. The official state religion of Connecticut was Protestant Calvinism. The Baptists felt their religious freedom was being impinged upon.

Jefferson's response letter contained the immortal words "separation of church and state" to describe the intent of the First Amendment's establishment clause.

So if we were to toss out the Bill of Rights and force everyone to believe what they are told to believe, which belief would that be?


Would it be Catholic integralism? They are the largest Christian denomination in America.

But then MTG believes Catholics work for Satan.

So you see the problem.

Integralism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My views :
No. America can't be a white or a Christian nation. It's obviously against the U.S. Bill of Rights.

If anyone wants to use any religion as a powerful tool to manipulate peoples, they will surely fail.

Nothing to worry about. It's not a problem. lol.

Facts:
The Bill of Rights is the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. It spells out Americans’ rights in relation to their government. It guarantees civil rights and liberties to the individual.

The First Amendment provides several rights protections: to express ideas through speech and the press, to assemble or gather with a group to protest or for other reasons, and to ask the government to fix problems. It also protects the right to religious beliefs and practices. IT PREVENTS THE GOVERNMENT FROM CREATING OR FAVORING A RELIGION.

Source:
The Bill of Rights: What Does it Say? | National Archives – The Bill of Rights: What Does it Say?

 

[Rigby5]

Essentially Christianity's version of Jihadism.

"Jihad" just means to be as ideal in your actions as you can be.
And with all the western colonial imperialism invading and stealing from the Mideast, you can't blame them for being a little angry and violent.
We deserve it.
In particular as an example, read up on "Operation Ajax", where we destroyed the democratic government in Iran, 1953.

 

[g5000]

My views :
No. America can't be a white or a Christian nation. It's obviously against the U.S. Bill of Rights.

If anyone wants to use any religion as a powerful tool to manipulate peoples, they will surely fail.

Nothing to worry about. It's not a problem. lol.

Facts:
The Bill of Rights is the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. It spells out Americans’ rights in relation to their government. It guarantees civil rights and liberties to the individual.

The First Amendment provides several rights protections: to express ideas through speech and the press, to assemble or gather with a group to protest or for other reasons, and to ask the government to fix problems. It also protects the right to religious beliefs and practices. IT PREVENTS THE GOVERNMENT FROM CREATING OR FAVORING A RELIGION.

Source:
The Bill of Rights: What Does it Say? | National Archives – The Bill of Rights: What Does it Say?

You would be surprised at how many posters on this forum think the Constitution allows state religion and that the "separation of church and state" is not Constitutional.

 

[progressive hunter]

You would be surprised at how many posters on this forum think the Constitution allows state religion and that the "separation of church and state" is not Constitutional.

separation of church and state doesnt exist other than in a personal letter and your little mind,,,

 

[g5000]

separation of church and state doesnt exist other than in a personal letter and your little mind,,,

TA-DAAAAA!

It takes someone completely ignorant of our history to say shit like that.


So tell me, liar. What socialist nightmare do I want?

If you are going to bear false witness against someone, you better fucking back it up.

 

[progressive hunter]

TA-DAAAAA!

It takes someone completely ignorant of our history to say shit like that.


So tell me, liar. What socialist nightmare do I want?

If you are going to bear false witness against someone, you better fucking back it up.

how am I ignorant of history?? where else does it exist???

 

[Woodznutz]

separation of church and state doesnt exist other than in a personal letter and your little mind,,,

Separation of church and state is implicit in the 1st Amendment. That America was blessed from its founding has/had been recognized by most of the other nations of the world, one being the freedom to worship as one chooses.

 

[Rigby5]

I never said it implies feds,,

the schools are shit because of government intrusion that pushs the parents out and controls what is taught as we see from whats happening in maryland and the virginias where parents are put on terrorist watch lists for speaking out,,

current crime is from lack of prosecution not the drug wars, proven by more and more states legalizing drugs in one form or another,,

utilities should be based on what you use not what you can pay,, the problem now is once again the government trying to control the people through regulations,,

anything with pooled resources are people working together " social compact"... unless its forced through government without authority to do so,,

face it,, your form of socialism sucks balls,, and we are not meant to be that form and our laws dont allow for it,,,


I see you didnt bring up healthcare,, would that be because since the government got involved " socialized it" prices have skyrocketed to the point people cant afford it on their own and forced to turn to the government for help??

what about higher education that was reasonably affordable before the government got involved and the prices skyrocketed and those that went are now begging the government for help??

yeah your form of socialism sucks balls,,

Wrong.
If schools have problems, that is from a lack of parental input.
Current crime is entirely do to the fact drug laws are inherently ILLEGAL!
Laws can only legally be based on defense of individual rights, which drug laws do NOT at all do.
Look at the graph of crime over years.
You will see spike caused by Prohibition and the War on Drugs.
Defense, education, health care, utilities, etc. are always best quality and least expensive done with socialism.
We do not have socialized medicine.
We have mandated private health insurance monopolies.
Started in 1957 when companies were allowed tax right off on employee benefits.
That was wrong and illegal, and still is the cause of health care being double what it should cost.
And you are wrong about higher education as well.
Government was always involved in what was known as "Land Grant" universities, which is where I paid $100/semester to graduate from.
The current bill is about $20,000/semester.
That is from a lack of government enforcement, not too much government.

 

[progressive hunter]

Separation of church and state is implicit in the 1st Amendment. That America was blessed from its founding has/had been recognized by most of the other nations of the world, one being the freedom to worship as one chooses.

I'm not seeing that,, could you show where it says that??

 

[progressive hunter]

Wrong.
If schools have problems, that is from a lack of parental input.
Current crime is entirely do to the fact drug laws are inherently ILLEGAL!
Laws can only legally be based on defense of individual rights, which drug laws do NOT at all do.
Look at the graph of crime over years.
You will see spike caused by Prohibition and the War on Drugs.
Defense, education, health care, utilities, etc. are always best quality and least expensive done with socialism.
We do not have socialized medicine.
We have mandated private health insurance monopolies.
Started in 1957 when companies were allowed tax right off on employee benefits.
That was wrong and illegal, and still is the cause of health care being double what it should cost.
And you are wrong about higher education as well.
Government was always involved in what was known as "Land Grant" universities, which is where I paid $100/semester to graduate from.
The current bill is about $20,000/semester.
That is from a lack of government enforcement, not too much government.

current reality proves everything you just said is wrong,,,
I gave specific accounts of why they are wrong,,
have a nice day,,

 

[g5000]

how am I ignorant of history?? where else does it exist???

Once you tell me what socialist nightmare I want, I will be more than happy to educate you about the First Amendment and the separation of church and state.

 

[Rigby5]

Mind explaining how you can possibly believe that we are still hunter/gatherers? There is nobody in my life who goes out and shoots my meat for me.


.

Its called "evolution".
When some social order succeeds for millions of years, that then is selected for in our DNA.
That then is how we are born to feel.
When the environment changes, that does not change that fact we are hunter/gatherers by our DNA.
You can try to force people to not act like hunter/gatherers, but they will still feel that way and using force on them would be wrong.

And YES, you do not raise or hunt your own meat, so then you DO depend on the social order of hunter/gatherers. We are not solitary predators, and that is the only alternative.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Its called "evolution".
When some social order succeeds for millions of years, that then is selected for in our DNA.
That then is how we are born to feel.
When the environment changes, that does not change that fact we are hunter/gatherers by our DNA.
You can try to force people to not act like hunter/gatherers, but they will still feel that way and using force on them would be wrong.

And YES, you do not raise or hunt your own meat, so then you DO depend on the social order of hunter/gatherers. We are not solitary predators, and that is the only alternative.

You are so full of shit.


.

 

[progressive hunter]

Once you tell me what socialist nightmare I want, I will be more than happy to educate you about the First Amendment and the separation of church and state.

if all you have is the 1st A that says nothing about any separation its not worth my time to further the discussion because I already won,,

 

[Rigby5]

Whatever their beliefs, the Founders came from similar religious backgrounds. Most were Protestants. The largest number were raised in the three largest Christian traditions of colonial America—Anglicanism (as in the cases of John Jay, George Washington, and Edward Rutledge), Presbyterianism (as in the cases of Richard Stockton and the Rev. John Witherspoon), and Congregationalism (as in the cases of John Adams and Samuel Adams). Other Protestant groups included the Society of Friends (Quakers), the Lutherans, and the Dutch Reformed. Three Founders—Charles Carroll and Daniel Carroll of Maryland and Thomas Fitzsimmons of Pennsylvania—were of Roman Catholic heritage.

The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Christianity, Enlightenment & Religion | Britannica

For some time the question of the religious faith of the Founding Fathers has generated a culture war in the United States. Scholars trained in research universities have generally argued that the majority of the Founders were religious rationalists or Unitarians. Pastors and other writers who

www.britannica.com

Sure the Founders "came from" various Protestants, but individually they admitted they in general were more Deists instead.
All Christian religions are inherently in conflict with democracy because they believe in a supernatural power being in control, where individual can not and should not try to interfere.