The presumptuousness of immigrants

[JoeMoma]

No serious discussion on the subject can be held if participants are unwilling or unable to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration.

No serious discussion on the subject can be held if participants are unwilling or unable to acknowledge the fact that one is not ‘illegal’ until such time as he has been afforded due process and found guilty of unauthorized entry to the United States by a court of law.

Damn, that's like saying that the guy that robs a bank is not a criminal until he is caught and convicted. As long as he is not caught he is not a criminal?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You mean "illegal immigrants". NOT, "immigrants". I also suspect you really mean Mexico.

We have more 18,500 Border Control agents on our very short southern border while our other borders remain wide open and Obama said he will be adding even more. Ya wanna guess which border any terrorists would choose to cross?

The president is against amnesty and his recent announcement proved that. The fact that the Republicans refuse to act on the issue proves their position as well - they are in favor of complete and unconditional amnesty.

Thanks to President Obama, the number of illegals coming from the south is almost at zero. While the Republicans have refused to deported even one illegal, President Obama has acted against their wishes and deported more than 2 million.

For those who want to base their comments on fact, here's the transcript of the president's speech -
Obama Immigration speech transcript US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You wrote: We need to adopt a European model when it comes to immigration and keep a tight-lid on our borders and welcome only those immigrants who respect and obey our laws.

Obviously, you've never traveled in Europe. People come and go freely in most countries. Often, they live in one country and work in another. In a conversation in the Cappuccino Corral, I wrote,

We really loved talking to others on train trips. Its all very open and friendly. One young man had his toddler age son and was going from France to Belgium to pick up his wife from work. Like we would do in the car.

The same happens here in the US and people also go back and forth to shop. Go to Tucson and drive through the mall and Costco parking lots. There are always a lot of huge new Caddy SUV's being filled with stuff they bought and are taking back to Mexico. IOW, we make a lot of money from Mexicans coming her to shop.

Americans don't want and won't do the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs that Mexicans do. To say that Mexicans doing those jobs is harming our labor force really is not true. If you educate yourself about the issue, I suspect you will agree that the biggest problem with illegals is with the drug cartels.

The US completely trashed the Mexican economy. We killed their agriculture and their manufacturing. Now, huge drug cartels have taken over that country and we buy their drugs. THAT is the issue we should be addressing.

You're full of crap! Obama's so -called high deportations numbers were skewered and even he admitted it. He is only deporting serious criminals. It's hand off to the rest just because they haven't yet been "convicted" of serious crimes such as felony ID theft or tax evasion.

Since Obama has been in office promising amnesty we have more illegals than ever crashing our borders. Look at all the Central Americans who have been coming here this year.

Illegals are doing any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage. Since when is construction, landscaping etc. bottom of the barrel jobs? You're the one who needs educating on this topic.

Mexicans having a pass to come here to shop isn't even remotely related to coming here illegally and residing here. Are you nuts?

NAFTA harmed the American worker also so that doesn't excuse Mexicans nor anyone else for coming here illegally and taking American jobs and resources from innocent Americans and their families.

The above post falls when we realize we have less illegals here than when Obama took office.

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of these "criminals" are going to vote, but mistreat them, and their citizen relatives will vote in their many millions against those who mistreat their alien relatives.

Fact. Ese.

 

[Unkotare]

That is essentially what Obama asked Congress to do when he said "Send me a Bill". He doesn't like the current situation any more than you or I do. Congress has been stonewalling this situation. ....

Bull.

Shit.


You are either painfully ignorant, or willfully disingenuous.

 

[Oldglory1]

None of these "criminals" are going to vote, but mistreat them, and their citizen relatives will vote in their many millions against those who mistreat their alien relatives.

Fact. Ese.

How are they being mistreated? .Aren't citizens who have illegal aliens relatives and friends here obligated to respect our immigration laws just like everyone else is and not put their ethnic group above our laws?

 

[Oldglory1]

You mean "illegal immigrants". NOT, "immigrants". I also suspect you really mean Mexico.

We have more 18,500 Border Control agents on our very short southern border while our other borders remain wide open and Obama said he will be adding even more. Ya wanna guess which border any terrorists would choose to cross?

The president is against amnesty and his recent announcement proved that. The fact that the Republicans refuse to act on the issue proves their position as well - they are in favor of complete and unconditional amnesty.

Thanks to President Obama, the number of illegals coming from the south is almost at zero. While the Republicans have refused to deported even one illegal, President Obama has acted against their wishes and deported more than 2 million.

For those who want to base their comments on fact, here's the transcript of the president's speech -
Obama Immigration speech transcript US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You wrote: We need to adopt a European model when it comes to immigration and keep a tight-lid on our borders and welcome only those immigrants who respect and obey our laws.

Obviously, you've never traveled in Europe. People come and go freely in most countries. Often, they live in one country and work in another. In a conversation in the Cappuccino Corral, I wrote,

We really loved talking to others on train trips. Its all very open and friendly. One young man had his toddler age son and was going from France to Belgium to pick up his wife from work. Like we would do in the car.

The same happens here in the US and people also go back and forth to shop. Go to Tucson and drive through the mall and Costco parking lots. There are always a lot of huge new Caddy SUV's being filled with stuff they bought and are taking back to Mexico. IOW, we make a lot of money from Mexicans coming her to shop.

Americans don't want and won't do the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs that Mexicans do. To say that Mexicans doing those jobs is harming our labor force really is not true. If you educate yourself about the issue, I suspect you will agree that the biggest problem with illegals is with the drug cartels.

The US completely trashed the Mexican economy. We killed their agriculture and their manufacturing. Now, huge drug cartels have taken over that country and we buy their drugs. THAT is the issue we should be addressing.

You're full of crap! Obama's so -called high deportations numbers were skewered and even he admitted it. He is only deporting serious criminals. It's hand off to the rest just because they haven't yet been "convicted" of serious crimes such as felony ID theft or tax evasion.

Since Obama has been in office promising amnesty we have more illegals than ever crashing our borders. Look at all the Central Americans who have been coming here this year.

Illegals are doing any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage. Since when is construction, landscaping etc. bottom of the barrel jobs? You're the one who needs educating on this topic.

Mexicans having a pass to come here to shop isn't even remotely related to coming here illegally and residing here. Are you nuts?

NAFTA harmed the American worker also so that doesn't excuse Mexicans nor anyone else for coming here illegally and taking American jobs and resources from innocent Americans and their families.

The above post falls when we realize we have less illegals here than when Obama took office.

But we don't. His constant promises of amnesty have just encouraged more to come and he has given a stay of deport now to milllions of them with work permits with 23 million Americans out of work.

 

[gallantwarrior]

They certainly should start fighting Obama's EO which stop the deportations of millions of illegal aliens

Go with that strategy and see how it works out for you with Latino voters in 2016.

So what you are saying is that the GOP has to thumb their noses at our immigration laws in order to gain the Latino vote? Since when are Latinos above our immigration laws? Latinos tend to vote Democrat even without the illegal immigration issue as most minorities do because they like the socialism of the Democrat party.

Latinos are cheap labor and they're cheap shills who sell themselves cheaply when it comes time to vote.

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of these "criminals" are going to vote, but mistreat them, and their citizen relatives will vote in their many millions against those who mistreat their alien relatives.

Fact. Ese.

How are they being mistreated? .Aren't citizens who have illegal aliens relatives and friends here obligated to respect our immigration laws just like everyone else is and not put their ethnic group above our laws?

They are not following your rules, and they will never do so, dear.

They will vote your folks out of office.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You mean "illegal immigrants". NOT, "immigrants". I also suspect you really mean Mexico.

We have more 18,500 Border Control agents on our very short southern border while our other borders remain wide open and Obama said he will be adding even more. Ya wanna guess which border any terrorists would choose to cross?

The president is against amnesty and his recent announcement proved that. The fact that the Republicans refuse to act on the issue proves their position as well - they are in favor of complete and unconditional amnesty.

Thanks to President Obama, the number of illegals coming from the south is almost at zero. While the Republicans have refused to deported even one illegal, President Obama has acted against their wishes and deported more than 2 million.

For those who want to base their comments on fact, here's the transcript of the president's speech -
Obama Immigration speech transcript US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You wrote: We need to adopt a European model when it comes to immigration and keep a tight-lid on our borders and welcome only those immigrants who respect and obey our laws.

Obviously, you've never traveled in Europe. People come and go freely in most countries. Often, they live in one country and work in another. In a conversation in the Cappuccino Corral, I wrote,

We really loved talking to others on train trips. Its all very open and friendly. One young man had his toddler age son and was going from France to Belgium to pick up his wife from work. Like we would do in the car.

The same happens here in the US and people also go back and forth to shop. Go to Tucson and drive through the mall and Costco parking lots. There are always a lot of huge new Caddy SUV's being filled with stuff they bought and are taking back to Mexico. IOW, we make a lot of money from Mexicans coming her to shop.

Americans don't want and won't do the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs that Mexicans do. To say that Mexicans doing those jobs is harming our labor force really is not true. If you educate yourself about the issue, I suspect you will agree that the biggest problem with illegals is with the drug cartels.

The US completely trashed the Mexican economy. We killed their agriculture and their manufacturing. Now, huge drug cartels have taken over that country and we buy their drugs. THAT is the issue we should be addressing.

You're full of crap! Obama's so -called high deportations numbers were skewered and even he admitted it. He is only deporting serious criminals. It's hand off to the rest just because they haven't yet been "convicted" of serious crimes such as felony ID theft or tax evasion.

Since Obama has been in office promising amnesty we have more illegals than ever crashing our borders. Look at all the Central Americans who have been coming here this year.

Illegals are doing any jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage. Since when is construction, landscaping etc. bottom of the barrel jobs? You're the one who needs educating on this topic.

Mexicans having a pass to come here to shop isn't even remotely related to coming here illegally and residing here. Are you nuts?

NAFTA harmed the American worker also so that doesn't excuse Mexicans nor anyone else for coming here illegally and taking American jobs and resources from innocent Americans and their families.

The above post falls when we realize we have less illegals here than when Obama took office.

But we don't. His constant promises of amnesty have just encouraged more to come and he has given a stay of deport now to milllions of them with work permits with 23 million Americans out of work.

No, they have not. You can keep making numbers up but once you research you will see the numbers have fallen.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That is essentially what Obama asked Congress to do when he said "Send me a Bill". He doesn't like the current situation any more than you or I do. Congress has been stonewalling this situation. ....

Bull.

Shit.


You are either painfully ignorant, or willfully disingenuous.

Too bad you can't make a coherent argument to prove your point...probably because your kneejerk reaction is pointless.

 

[Unkotare]

That is essentially what Obama asked Congress to do when he said "Send me a Bill". He doesn't like the current situation any more than you or I do. Congress has been stonewalling this situation. ....

Bull.

Shit.


You are either painfully ignorant, or willfully disingenuous.

Too bad you can't make a coherent argument to prove your point...probably because your kneejerk reaction is pointless.

Don't be bitter that your ridiculous, partisan attempts at altering reality aren't accepted by those outside your coven. obama and the once democrat-controlled Senate played the little game too long for it not to be completely obvious.

 

[Oldglory1]

None of these "criminals" are going to vote, but mistreat them, and their citizen relatives will vote in their many millions against those who mistreat their alien relatives.

Fact. Ese.

How are they being mistreated? .Aren't citizens who have illegal aliens relatives and friends here obligated to respect our immigration laws just like everyone else is and not put their ethnic group above our laws?

They are not following your rules, and they will never do so, dear.

They will vote your folks out of office.

My rules? Um no, our country's immigration laws implemented by our government. Who is "we' folks that will be voted out of office. Why do Latinos think they are special and above those laws? If that isn't racism them I don't know what is. You didn't answer how are Latinos being mistreated?

 

[guno]

 

[Mertex]

They pop out kids anchor babies so they can receive benefits and work under the table for businesses who are more than willing to take advantage of cheap illegal labor - lowering our wages and decreasing job opportunities for the rest of us.

That's not even true.......show some links backing up your claims. Unless you are claiming that you know more than someone at the NY Times. That's is the problem with people like you, you spew out venom and verbiage that is not factual.

The only ones that are affected are Americans without a high school diploma, and there is no excuse for any American not having a high school diploma, in my opinion.


Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

The impact on everyone else, though, is surprisingly positive. Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/m...ually-hurt-the-us-economy.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Oldglory1]

They pop out kids anchor babies so they can receive benefits and work under the table for businesses who are more than willing to take advantage of cheap illegal labor - lowering our wages and decreasing job opportunities for the rest of us.

That's not even true.......show some links backing up your claims. Unless you are claiming that you know more than someone at the NY Times. That's is the problem with people like you, you spew out venom and verbiage that is not factual.

The only ones that are affected are Americans without a high school diploma, and there is no excuse for any American not having a high school diploma, in my opinion.


Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

The impact on everyone else, though, is surprisingly positive. Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/m...ually-hurt-the-us-economy.html?pagewanted=all

What utter nonsense! Construction workers never had a high school diploma? And that's just the tip of the iceberg of the jobs that illegal aliens are taking from Americans because they work cheaper and those who hire them are equally guilty and breaking the law or doesn't that matter to you? Even if they were only taking jobs from Americans without a high school diploma (but that's not true) what has that do with it or how does that justify it? Americans need those jobs regardless of their education credentials and rightly entitled to them as citizens of this country. You say there is no excuse for an American not to have a diploma and yet you excuse lawbreaking?

 

[Oldglory1]

Who's anti-"immigrant"? The objection is to illegal aliens you damned fool! You don't know the difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal alien?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have not refuted, only ignored, "Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

The impact on everyone else, though, is surprisingly positive."

Your opinion means nothing, bub; it is only for you.

 

[ninja007]

its so racist to want people to obey the laws, yep.

 

[Conservative65]

They certainly should start fighting Obama's EO which stop the deportations of millions of illegal aliens

Go with that strategy and see how it works out for you with Latino voters in 2016.

So what you are saying is that the GOP has to thumb their noses at our immigration laws in order to gain the Latino vote? Since when are Latinos above our immigration laws? Latinos tend to vote Democrat even without the illegal immigration issue as most minorities do because they like the socialism of the Democrat party.

So are you admitting that you are not interested in trying to win over Latino voters to the GOP?

You are more than happy to let the Dems have the lions share of that growing demographic that will convert red states to blue?

So you're admitting it's OK to cater to them simply to get votes. Not much character in that.

 

[Manonthestreet]