The Poverty Excuse

[DrLove]

Generally, I think this proposal is a bad idea which is why it won't be adopted. But when it comes to hunger, compassion must be shown by the cops and the courts. Besides, it's pretty tough to smuggle a Christmas ham out of your local WallyWorld.

If a homeless person is caught eating a banana in the produce section, generally and rightfully won't trigger an arrest. A compassionate manager is more likely to offer a few items from the expired stuff about to go to the food bank.

 

[danielpalos]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

I'll address the elephant in the room...white America is extremely law abiding, respect for law and order is deeply imbedded in our culture.
NO...criminality is not a poverty thing...look to all white Appalachia for proof.

• In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely.
For the crime of “shooting”—defined as firing a bullet that hits someone—a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely. • If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

What was Trump's excuse for ripping people off?

Greed. Poverty and greed are the two biggest contributor's to crime.

How did he rip people off?
Aren't we talking about how poverty correlates with crime?
Why is there such little crime in poverty stricken predominantly white Appalachia?

While crime in Appalachia is low compared to national averages (see Exhibit l), part of
this is due to the predominately nonmetropolitan character of the Region. Crime levels in
nonmetropolitan areas in every part of the country are almost always well below those of
metropolitan locations.--https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/189560.pdf

WOW, high ironic.....dark people don't live in rural areas where there is little crime.
Hmmm....who would have thought.

It was easier to find jobs in the big cities.

 

[pknopp]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

I'll address the elephant in the room...white America is extremely law abiding, respect for law and order is deeply imbedded in our culture.
NO...criminality is not a poverty thing...look to all white Appalachia for proof.

• In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely.
For the crime of “shooting”—defined as firing a bullet that hits someone—a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely. • If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

What was Trump's excuse for ripping people off?

Greed. Poverty and greed are the two biggest contributor's to crime.

How did he rip people off?
Aren't we talking about how poverty correlates with crime?
Why is there such little crime in poverty stricken predominantly white Appalachia?

Just because you claim something doesn't make it so. On top of that the population in these parts are low.

No you aren't going to have as much crime in low population areas as compared to high population areas.

Besides, being willing to overlook Trump's corruption means you have no room to talk.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

I'll address the elephant in the room...white America is extremely law abiding, respect for law and order is deeply imbedded in our culture.
NO...criminality is not a poverty thing...look to all white Appalachia for proof.

• In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely.
For the crime of “shooting”—defined as firing a bullet that hits someone—a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely. • If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

What was Trump's excuse for ripping people off?

Greed. Poverty and greed are the two biggest contributor's to crime.

How did he rip people off?
Aren't we talking about how poverty correlates with crime?
Why is there such little crime in poverty stricken predominantly white Appalachia?

Just because you claim something doesn't make it so. On top of that the population in these parts are low.

No you aren't going to have as much crime in low population areas as compared to high population areas.

Besides, being willing to overlook Trump's corruption means you have no room to talk.

There is little crime in low population areas because dark people don't live in low population areas...Come on now, don't be scared, all the data is there.
There was no Trump corruption, remember, you hired Robert Mueller to prove it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Generally, I think this proposal is a bad idea which is why it won't be adopted. But when it comes to hunger, compassion must be shown by the cops and the courts. Besides, it's pretty tough to smuggle a Christmas ham out of your local WallyWorld.

If a homeless person is caught eating a banana in the produce section, generally and rightfully won't trigger an arrest. A compassionate manager is more likely to offer a few items from the expired stuff about to go to the food bank.

Maybe, but where I live, theft has closed down all our major stores and like anyplace else, theft is still illegal here. Now if I want to shop, I either have to travel 20 minutes or more which I don't really care to do, so I end up on Amazon. Theft hurts more than just the stores, it hurts the entire community. Getting household goods is a chore for the elderly who don't have or understand computers and the internet, but nobody has concern for those people, just the people who don't want to work and steal to get by.

 

[pknopp]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

I'll address the elephant in the room...white America is extremely law abiding, respect for law and order is deeply imbedded in our culture.
NO...criminality is not a poverty thing...look to all white Appalachia for proof.

• In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely.
For the crime of “shooting”—defined as firing a bullet that hits someone—a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely. • If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

What was Trump's excuse for ripping people off?

Greed. Poverty and greed are the two biggest contributor's to crime.

How did he rip people off?
Aren't we talking about how poverty correlates with crime?
Why is there such little crime in poverty stricken predominantly white Appalachia?

Just because you claim something doesn't make it so. On top of that the population in these parts are low.

No you aren't going to have as much crime in low population areas as compared to high population areas.

Besides, being willing to overlook Trump's corruption means you have no room to talk.

There is little crime in low population areas because dark people don't live in low population areas...Come on now, don't be scared, all the data is there.
There was no Trump corruption, remember, you hired Robert Mueller to prove it.

I hired no one. The courts found him guilty.

 

[danielpalos]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

I'll address the elephant in the room...white America is extremely law abiding, respect for law and order is deeply imbedded in our culture.
NO...criminality is not a poverty thing...look to all white Appalachia for proof.

• In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely.
For the crime of “shooting”—defined as firing a bullet that hits someone—a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely. • If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
• In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

What was Trump's excuse for ripping people off?

Greed. Poverty and greed are the two biggest contributor's to crime.

How did he rip people off?
Aren't we talking about how poverty correlates with crime?
Why is there such little crime in poverty stricken predominantly white Appalachia?

Just because you claim something doesn't make it so. On top of that the population in these parts are low.

No you aren't going to have as much crime in low population areas as compared to high population areas.

Besides, being willing to overlook Trump's corruption means you have no room to talk.

There is little crime in low population areas because dark people don't live in low population areas...Come on now, don't be scared, all the data is there.
There was no Trump corruption, remember, you hired Robert Mueller to prove it.

It is more difficult for dark people to get jobs in low population areas than it is for non-dark people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

and it happens more than you think.

or they can sell the food stamps for cash for other things.

Here you have a SNAP's card which you have to show ID to use. So what they do is bother people standing in the checkout line to use their card to buy some of their items, say 30 bucks worth. When you two are done checking out, you give him 25 bucks for your items that he purchased on his card, and he got 25 bucks in cash while you save 30 bucks off your grocery bill.

They're smart enough to figure out things like this, but not smart enough to get a job and support themselves.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I disagree.

When circumstances change people do not continue stealing to survive. I am proof of that and I have seen it countless times

What about all those Rap guys? They become millionaires talking over a mic behind a drumbeat, and they and their posse go to places to steal just for the fun of it. Or you have somebody who got into the NFL playing football, and they host dog fights which the draw of course is people betting on the dogs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

Reading your posts, I'm curious about how old you are. That aside, I don't think there's a lot of people stealing to eat in our society these days. We have a major drug problem in our country, but using dope is an option. Here we have highway ramp beggers. They stand by the off ramp red light holding a sign for money to eat. One day I watched a car a few vehicles in front of me hand the girl some money. Her shift must have been over because she crossed the ramp to the sidewalk, stopped, and whipped out her iPhone to text somebody something.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Poverty does contribute to crime ask any sociologist.

And crime contributes to poverty

every day residents of the ghetto make personal decisions that contribute to the very situation they find themselves in

crime is one

because the kid thats always in trouble or just one step ahead of the cops is the one who is getting bad grades in school and most likely to drop out with no chance of succeeding in the big world

The problem in our society is we encourage poor people to procreate. They have kids and the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree. The solution to the problem is we have a welfare requirement of being fixed before getting one dime of taxpayer money. After all, when working people can't afford anymore children, that's what we do. In that way you greatly reduce poverty while at the same time, making it easier for the individual to get on their feet and eventually get off government support. Today, it's estimated it will cost you $240,000 to raise a child from birth until the age of 18, and that's just one child.

Today if you are on the dole, the more kids you have, the more food stamps you get, the larger HUD home you can get and many times in the suburbs, the larger the welfare check.

 

[Mac-7]

You simply have no solutions. Why blame the Poor.

Because the majority of poor adults in America are poor THROUGH ALL FAULT OF THEIR OWN

 

[danielpalos]

You simply have no solutions. Why blame the Poor.

Because the majority of poor adults in America are poor THROUGH ALL FAULT OF THEIR OWN

That was certainly not true in the past, why do you believe it would be more true now?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I said that people want to deny that poverty does contribute to crime. I gave an example that I lived when I was a kid.

Poverty does contribute to crime ask any sociologist.

Not always. My father could tell you stories that would make you cry. He, his parents and five siblings lived in a house about the size of a three car garage. They had no indoor plumbing so the outhouse in the back was the only place to go. If you had to go in the middle of the night up north in the winter, you were either ill or really couldn't hold it any longer. They didn't even have a roof on the damn thing which was really great when it was snowing.

They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant pulling your red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. The firemen would fill it up with fruits and vegetables, and they pulled it back home another five miles, eating some of delights along the way.

My father nor his five siblings ever spent a day in jail or prison. Two became alcoholics, but the other three and my father learned trades mostly in construction; one became a hair dresser. They all raised their families in nice homes, and me nor my cousins were ever in trouble with the law either.

When this toilet paper shortage came up, my father just laughed at the hysteria. He said "I grew up without toilet paper!" He often said he joined the Marines when he got to be an adult to fight in Korea because he wanted to know what it was like to have three square meals a day.

 

[jbrownson0831]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Not for the right wing. Only helping out the poor individually is a crime for the right wing.

Not for the ones who refuse to help themselves. That is called expectation of self responsibility.

 

[Mac-7]

That was certainly not true in the past, why do you believe it would be more true now?

I dont know what time period you are referring to but America today is the land of opportunity for smart people with initiative

 

[danielpalos]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Not for the right wing. Only helping out the poor individually is a crime for the right wing.

Not for the ones who refuse to help themselves. That is called expectation of self responsibility.

Where is that expectation to be found at law, in any at-will employment State?

 

[jbrownson0831]

But in this situation the people doing it would get a pass, and then realize there is no down side to robbing the businesses over and over.

And when one of the owners loses his shit and beats the crap out of the thief you will then call for his head.

Darn straight I will. Disproporationate response.

I would expect that a lot of people/business and/or property owners would eventually conclude that if our 'justice' system is unable or unwilling to prosecute those who violate their rights then whatever restraint they may have felt when dealing with that segment of the population might just disappear.

That or they're going to have to modify the laws so that "self-defense" or "defense of others" also includes defense of one's home, business or other property.

Or we can stop using the Criminal Justice System to provide a ready labor force for the Prison Industrial Complex.

It's not your shit being stolen, it's not you livelihood being ruined. Most stores operate on pretty thing margins.

Of course it is. Corporate farms got billions and I'm on the hook.

That isn't a crime you dundering empty headed noob

It's all a crime.

No, crime is a crime. Government policies you don't like are not crimes.

I thought taxation was theft? Taking from taxpayers to give to corporations don't count here?

Not for the right wing. Only helping out the poor individually is a crime for the right wing.

Not for the ones who refuse to help themselves. That is called expectation of self responsibility.

Where is that expectation to be found at law, in any at-will employment State?

That expectation is from me, if you want to steal my hard earned money to give it to someone else they better be trying to get their own job.

 

[danielpalos]

That was certainly not true in the past, why do you believe it would be more true now?

I dont know what time period you are referring to but America today is the land of opportunity for smart people with initiative

Black codes were only abolished about sixty years ago. There are people alive today who experienced that regime first hand.

 

[danielpalos]

That expectation is from me,

You are not the law. Why do right wingers believe more in taking the law into their own hands than actually seeking redress of grievances and justice?