The Poverty Excuse

[martybegan]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

 

[Mac-7]

Poverty does contribute to crime ask any sociologist.

And crime contributes to poverty

every day residents of the ghetto make personal decisions that contribute to the very situation they find themselves in

crime is one

because the kid thats always in trouble or just one step ahead of the cops is the one who is getting bad grades in school and most likely to drop out with no chance of succeeding in the big world

 

[Soupnazi630]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, did a lot of people engage in looting and robbery?

Absolutely.

10 Famous Depression-era Bank Robbers - Listverse

wrong:
''''''There's only one problem: The Depression years had very little crime'''''

Experts: Bad Economies Don't Cause Crime Waves

With the U.S. economy's current troubles, many people assume a crime wave is just around the corner. But criminologists say that's just an American myth.

www.npr.org

.

There was a question answered. I showed where indeed people did steal during that time.

......bullshit--there has ALWAYS been crime----but the Depression never increased it

There were more bank robberies. It's why the FBI was created.

There were fewer actually

The fbi was created long before the depression

They simply had bank robbers who grabbed a lot of media attention

 

[SweetTea]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

It is the predominate attitude of Democrats. Whatever is best for them at the moment. They don’t think past step one.

Yeah I was a registered democ rat at 14

FYI not a democrat never was a democrat

I missed the part about your age.

I also missed the part about this proposal taking age into consideration and it says over 100 misdeanor crimes would be included.

The vast majority of judges would have some leniency on a person who was literally starving and stole a sandwich.

 

[Soupnazi630]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

Idiot has an idiotic position. Not surprised.

You believe that a fair justice system is stupid. That is the problem.

You are blathering about a "fair" justice system, what is fair about letting people take a pass because they claim they are poor?

We allow the rich a pass. Why should someone go to jail for stealing to feed themselves but not for ripping people off of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Exactly.how do we allow the rich a pass?

 

[Blues Man]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

 

[Blues Man]

Poverty does contribute to crime ask any sociologist.

And crime contributes to poverty

every day residents of the ghetto make personal decisions that contribute to the very situation they find themselves in

crime is one

because the kid thats always in trouble or just one step ahead of the cops is the one who is getting bad grades in school and most likely to drop out with no chance of succeeding in the big world

Do you really want to do the chicken and the egg here?

OK how much crime is there in a suburb where the average household income is 200K?

If some kids in that suburb decided to shoplift a candy bar would that crime cause that affluent area to be impoverished?

 

[martybegan]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

at 14 I had a Pennysaver route, at 16 I was working for $4.25 an hour in a pharmacy. Hell at 12 I was working with my dad shoveling people's houses out for $5 an hour (he charged $10 an hour for me).

You could have found legitimate work, you chose the easier route, the illegal route.

 

[Blues Man]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

at 14 I had a Pennysaver route, at 16 I was working for $4.25 an hour in a pharmacy. Hell at 12 I was working with my dad shoveling people's houses out for $5 an hour (he charged $10 an hour for me).

You could have found legitimate work, you chose the easier route, the illegal route.

At 14 I was orphaned stuck in an abusive foster home and decided that I was better off if I didn't stay there.

There were no paper routes where i lived and Daddy didn't buy me a bike for Xmas.

When I was 16 I got a job in a restaurant and stopped selling weed. I credit that man for saving my life. He gave me a job 2 meals a day and if I needed to he let me crash in a store room over the restaurant. He helped me become an emancipated minor by being a co signer on a savings account and helping me find a real cheap room to rent.

 

[task0778]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. If you were an insurance company, would you insure a business in Seattle under such laws? Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

While that might be taking it too far poverty is for many a reason they commit petty crime.

When I was a teen and in foster care I stayed out of that house as much as possible sometimes for weeks at a time and the foster idiots didn't care as long as they got their checks .

Sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was what I could pocket from the corner store. When I was 15 I started slinging weed and was able to at least make enough money to eat and to buy some clothes from the Salvation Army.

So saying that poverty, real poverty, doesn't contribute to crime is naive.

I would agree with that, but allowing anyone to steal from someone else is not the answer to poverty. You made the decision to stay out of that foster house, why? Didn't you get anything to eat from them? If so, turn the bastards in to the authorities. But if they did feed you then why not eat their food instead of stealing crap from the corner store? Were there no churches or Salvation Army in your neighborhood? What about school?

My point: I think poverty does contribute to crime, big time. But it doesn't have to. People make bad choices, particularly kids. Mostly I think it's their environment, that isn't exactly conducive to working instead of stealing. A place like Seattle ought to be looking or ways to make sure people at least have something to eat and clothes to wear, instead of allowing theft or the like. Because then the road from petty crime to worse gets a whole lot easier.

 

[Blues Man]

Up for debate is a reform proposed by Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold. For up to 100 different misdemeanor crimes, including theft, harassment, shoplifting, trespassing, and more, an individual could be excused if he or she claims poverty was their motive.

“In a situation where you took that sandwich because you were hungry and you were trying to meet your basic need of satisfying your hunger; we as the community will know that we should not punish that,” King County Director of Public Defense Anita Khandelwal said of the proposal, which she helped craft. “That conduct is excused.”

The intent of the proposal is to avoid punishing desperate people just trying to survive. But the provision exempts not only stealing food or similar necessities, but stealing anything—if you claim the money gained from its sale would be used for essentials.

First and foremost, this policy would obviously incentivize more crime and more theft.

Why Seattle’s Proposed ‘Poverty Excuse’ for Crimes Would Destroy the City’s Economy

“I think it’s insane,” one victimized barber told a local news outlet. He's not wrong.

fee.org

Words fail to adequately describe the idiocy behind such proposals. If you want something, steal it and if you get caught plead poverty and cry me a river. This is basically anarchy, who could operate a business under such rules? Somebody breaks into your business and steals you blind and nothing happens. Or they burn the place down citing BLM. If you were an insurance company, would you insure a business in Seattle under such laws? Geez, such a beautiful place that is on the fast track to being a shithole city.

While that might be taking it too far poverty is for many a reason they commit petty crime.

When I was a teen and in foster care I stayed out of that house as much as possible sometimes for weeks at a time and the foster idiots didn't care as long as they got their checks .

Sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was what I could pocket from the corner store. When I was 15 I started slinging weed and was able to at least make enough money to eat and to buy some clothes from the Salvation Army.

So saying that poverty, real poverty, doesn't contribute to crime is naive.

I would agree with that, but allowing anyone to steal from someone else is not the answer to poverty. You made the decision to stay out of that foster house, why? Didn't you get anything to eat from them? If so, turn the bastards in to the authorities. But if they did feed you then why not eat their food instead of stealing crap from the corner store? Were there no churches or Salvation Army in your neighborhood? What about school?

My point: I think poverty does contribute to crime, big time. But it doesn't have to. People make bad choices, particularly kids. Mostly I think it's their environment, that isn't exactly conducive to working instead of stealing. A place like Seattle ought to be looking or ways to make sure people at least have something to eat and clothes to wear, instead of allowing theft or the like. Because then the road from petty crime to worse gets a whole lot easier.

I wasn't about to get smacked around just to get a bologna sandwich.

Why would I report to the same people who stuck me in a shitty foster home? I was 14 with a real independent streak and I'll admit a mouth like a sailor. I wasn't going to be put in the nice house in the suburbs.

Shelters and soup kitchens are prime hunting ground for all kinds of predators. It was actually safer for me to steal a sandwich than to go to a shelter and then there was always the risk that someone at the shelter or soup line would drop a dime to social services.

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar a lot of those times I would just drop it and run as well

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I would still try

I call Bull Shit!

you refuse to believe what you cannot understand.

I'll tell you my story if you want. you already got some of it here.

lol, you can tell me anything you want anonymously on the internet....Doesn’t mean I have to believe it....So, can the Oliver Twist reenactment and just be honest.

He could be making it all up but the facts are, there are many living it everyday.

 

[Blues Man]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar a lot of those times I would just drop it and run as well

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I would still try

I call Bull Shit!

you refuse to believe what you cannot understand.

I'll tell you my story if you want. you already got some of it here.

lol, you can tell me anything you want anonymously on the internet....Doesn’t mean I have to believe it....So, can the Oliver Twist reenactment and just be honest.

He could be making it all up but the facts are, there are many living it everyday.

I don't have to prove anything to you people.

Believe me or don't IDGAF

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

Idiot has an idiotic position. Not surprised.

You believe that a fair justice system is stupid. That is the problem.

You are blathering about a "fair" justice system, what is fair about letting people take a pass because they claim they are poor?

We allow the rich a pass. Why should someone go to jail for stealing to feed themselves but not for ripping people off of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Exactly.how do we allow the rich a pass?

Stop being lazy. Read the thread.

 

[pknopp]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar a lot of those times I would just drop it and run as well

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I would still try

I call Bull Shit!

you refuse to believe what you cannot understand.

I'll tell you my story if you want. you already got some of it here.

lol, you can tell me anything you want anonymously on the internet....Doesn’t mean I have to believe it....So, can the Oliver Twist reenactment and just be honest.

He could be making it all up but the facts are, there are many living it everyday.

I don't have to prove anything to you people.

Believe me or don't IDGAF

I didn't say I didn't believe you. I said there are many living it every day either way.

 

[martybegan]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

at 14 I had a Pennysaver route, at 16 I was working for $4.25 an hour in a pharmacy. Hell at 12 I was working with my dad shoveling people's houses out for $5 an hour (he charged $10 an hour for me).

You could have found legitimate work, you chose the easier route, the illegal route.

At 14 I was orphaned stuck in an abusive foster home and decided that I was better off if I didn't stay there.

There were no paper routes where i lived and Daddy didn't buy me a bike for Xmas.

When I was 16 I got a job in a restaurant and stopped selling weed. I credit that man for saving my life. He gave me a job 2 meals a day and if I needed to he let me crash in a store room over the restaurant. He helped me become an emancipated minor by being a co signer on a savings account and helping me find a real cheap room to rent.

Tough life I admit, just don't try to excuse your criminal behavior because of it.

 

[Blues Man]

During the Great Depression, with much of the United States mired in grinding poverty and unemployment, some Americans found increased opportunities in criminal activities like bootlegging, robbing banks, loan-sharking—even murder.

Crime in the Great Depression - Rate, FBI, Prohibition | HISTORY

The Great Depression saw a rise in criminal activity and the glorification of the characters involved, from daring ba...

www.history.com

Criminal activity was illegal then, Seattle wants to make a lot of it acceptable. Time were different then, most of the country wasn't as mobile as it is now. So, if you stole something, people knew who you were and you didn't get away with it. Seattle wants to change that. Throw in the fact the Seattle and other cities want to defund the police, right? How does anyone not see the writing on the wall?

Criminal activity has long been legal for the rich. Did Trump go to prison for his theft?

What a useless deflection.

The reason for a criminal justice system is to take justice from the victims of a crime, and let the State handle it. If the State decides to relinquish that job, then it goes back to the people.

So the people should have resorting to stringing Trump up?

Talk about not wanting to debate the actual topic at hand.

I stated exactly what I think. I'm absolutely OK with it. We are not supposed to have a two tiered justice system.

I believe that all should be treated equally, however that has to be done.

Until it's your shit being stolen.

So how are businesses supposed to handle the deluge of shoplifters that will occur if said shoplifters know they can claim poverty?

I suppose what they do is support a justice system that treats everyone equally.

I look forward to the next round of whining about "food deserts".

Also, what happens when some shop owner decides that he is willing to protect his property with force?

What happens when the only shops surviving, are ones owned by such people?

An owner can protect his property but I have no idea how they relates to what I said.

So it is ok for the thief to steal AND it is ok for the shop owner to use force to stop him?


Is it ok for the thief to use force to steal?


Do you envision cops showing to the aftermath of gun battles and finding it to be just fine, nothing to see here, this is the new normal?


And does that change if the shop owner is white?

Depends on the force.

A kid stealing a candy bar is not a threat to the store clerk's life.

A hundred "kids" stealing thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, is a threat to his livelihood.

again when do 100 kids enter a store at the same time outside of a riot?

A store owner can prevent a single kid from shoplifting if he's paying attention.

But do you deny that for some that stealing can be an act of survival?

Like I said when I was a teen sometimes the only thing I ate in a day was the bag of chips, or a candy bar I could pocket. I guess i should have been shot for that huh?

Funny, it is so easy for a store owner to stop, then how did you pull it off?

I got caught plenty of times but I was faster than the clerk who didn't want to chase me for the cost of a candy bar

But there were days I still had to eat something so even though I would get caught sometimes I still needed to eat something

So, you dropping that 'easy to stop" claim?

no because i still got caught by the people who were paying attention. After a while you get to know the clerks who are stoned or who would real a magazine at the register instead of doing their jobs

Sure. Some poor clerk is bored and that makes it ok to steal.

Where did i say it was OK?

I said that there were times the only thing I ate in a day was a candy bar I could pocket.

You want to deny that poverty is a cause for not all but some crime

The bit where you shift responsibility to the clerk. That is implicitly stating that the actions of the thief are not to blame, ie OK.

Perhaps your guilt is making it hard for you to be objective.

Where did I ever say that?

You asked me how I got away with it. I told you.

And I don't have any guilt. I will not apologize for stealing a 50 cent candy bar because it was the only thing I would eat that day. I was 14 and it was survival.

You don't or refuse to understand that some people are put in a situation where they can see no alternative

No soup kitchens? No churches?

I call bullshit.

Wow you sound just like Scrooge

Re there no prisons, no work houses?

YEah I wanted to mingle with the mentally ill homeless and other predators that hung around the shelters. It was safer to steal a candy bar

And that's the mentality of a criminal, whatever is easier and **** anyone else.

and yet I stopped shoplifting when I was 15 why is that do you suppose?

But I guess I was still a criminal because I sold a little weed to make money but then again I only did that until I got a legit job.

Why do you refuse to even think that some people can see no option under dire circumstances?

Dire circumstances is jumping out of a Higgins boat onto Omaha beach.

You had tough situations.

And yes, selling weed at the time was criminal.

And it was also the only way I could see to earn enough money to live.

And your judgement of another's situation is meaningless.

Cold, hungry and on the streets is pretty dire to a 14 year old kid.

at 14 I had a Pennysaver route, at 16 I was working for $4.25 an hour in a pharmacy. Hell at 12 I was working with my dad shoveling people's houses out for $5 an hour (he charged $10 an hour for me).

You could have found legitimate work, you chose the easier route, the illegal route.

At 14 I was orphaned stuck in an abusive foster home and decided that I was better off if I didn't stay there.

There were no paper routes where i lived and Daddy didn't buy me a bike for Xmas.

When I was 16 I got a job in a restaurant and stopped selling weed. I credit that man for saving my life. He gave me a job 2 meals a day and if I needed to he let me crash in a store room over the restaurant. He helped me become an emancipated minor by being a co signer on a savings account and helping me find a real cheap room to rent.

Tough life I admit, just don't try to excuse your criminal behavior because of it.

I have never once made any excuses.

Unlike some of you I realize that poverty does lead to crime and that some people who commit crimes would not under different circumstances. I learned that at 14 but most people like you never learn that.

 

[task0778]

I wasn't about to get smacked around just to get a bologna sandwich.

So, you made a choice. Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity? You weren't the only kid to get smacked around, and some not from foster homes either.

Why would I report to the same people who stuck me in a shitty foster home? I was 14 with a real independent streak and I'll admit a mouth like a sailor. I wasn't going to be put in the nice house in the suburbs.

So report the abuse to someone else. You didn't do that, and I'm not saying it was right or wrong, or smart or not. Same question: Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity? And BTW, maybe you would've been better off in that nice house in the 'burbs. Might've gotten something better to eat and not smacked around so much unless you earned it.

Shelters and soup kitchens are prime hunting ground for all kinds of predators. It was actually safer for me to steal a sandwich than to go to a shelter and then there was always the risk that someone at the shelter or soup line would drop a dime to social services.

Would it have been so bad if someone had dropped that dime? More choices. Same question, one more time: Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity?

I ain't here to pass judgment on your decisions when you were 14 and under those circumstances maybe I woulda done the same. All I'm doing here is questioning the wisdom of allowing someone to steal and get away with it. I doubt that is the best course of action for anybody, for someone in your situation then and for everyone else and for society as a whole.

And BTW a word of thanks and appreciation for guys like the one that basically saved your ass back then. IMHO, people like that are heroes.

 

[Blues Man]

I wasn't about to get smacked around just to get a bologna sandwich.

So, you made a choice. Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity? You weren't the only kid to get smacked around, and some from not from foster homes either.

Why would I report to the same people who stuck me in a shitty foster home? I was 14 with a real independent streak and I'll admit a mouth like a sailor. I wasn't going to be put in the nice house in the suburbs.

So report the abuse to someone else. You didn't do that, and I'm not saying it was right or wrong, or smart or not. Same question: Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity? And BTW, maybe you would've been better off in that nice house in the 'burbs. Might've gotten something better toe at and not smacked around so much unless you earned it.

Shelters and soup kitchens are prime hunting ground for all kinds of predators. It was actually safer for me to steal a sandwich than to go to a shelter and then there was always the risk that someone at the shelter or soup line would drop a dime to social services.

Would it have been so bad if someone had dropped that dime? More choices. Same question, one more time: Do you think that should allow you to steal with impunity?

I ain't here to pass judgment on your decisions when you were 14 and under those circumstances maybe I woulda done the same. All I'm doing here is questioning the wisdom of allowing someone to steal and get away with it. I doubt that is the best course of action for anybody, for someone in your situation then and for everyone else and for society as a whole.

And BTW a word of thanks and appreciation for guys like the one that basically saved your ass back then. IMHO, people like that are heroes.

I had no reason to trust any social worker. my mother was an addict for most of my life and we had social workers show up every now and then but none of them did anything.

I sure a hell wasn't going to call the cops. At least at home I could grab the welfare check and squirrel some money away before my mother blew it on drugs. Teachers at my school didn't really notice or care if I went to school or not.

I had a place to live, shitty as it was and I didn't want to lose it.

But yes I am grateful for my dear friend and surrogate father. He was an Italian immigrant who owned a small restaurant he saw me taking bottles out of his dumpster one day and he came out to talk to me. He really was the very best man I have ever known.

 

[Mac-7]

If some kids in that suburb decided to shoplift a candy bar would that crime cause that affluent area to be impoverished?

It should be a crime in any neighborhood

that does not mean throw the book at kids for stealing candy bars

but dont pat them on the head with no consequences either

and maybe more so in the ghetto cause those kids have a narrower window of oppertunity