The Post-Trump GOP

[MaryAnne11]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Right now, 95% of the energy in the party is 100% with Trump. The anti-Trumpsters have their work cut out for them.

It was said earlier here that the smartest thing they can do is bring him down no matter what the short term damage is, and that may be true. Rip off the scab.

No doubt they're thinking about it, and no doubt they're trying to figure out how. It won't be easy, but there's no way of knowing how much anti-Trump sentiment exists under the surface.

I just wonder if dropping Trump is enough. All the problems that allowed Trump to do what he did are still in place:

We have a broken media landscape where people get confronted with massive amounts of fake news online, and even the "traditional media", the tv networks, are totally divided along partisan lines and don't hide their bias anymore. It's next to impossible these days to watch or read news these days and to know which of it is true and which isn't ... many stories are totally made up, and even those which are true are often covered in massive bias.

Too many people can't tell fake news from serious information, and too many people give a damn about good journalism. Winning has become more important than facts and truth -- and when it helps you winning, a lie is fair game for too many.

And then ... there are many, many people who have been let down by both parties in the past decades. People who lost their jobs or were screwed over by both Democrats and Republicans just acting in the interest of those who've made it. Many of them supported or still support Trump, because he at least pretended he cared for them.

There was a time when the Democrats told the losers of the rat race that they deserve a dignified life, a share of the cake, too ... now they've abandoned them, they say "as long as it's not a bias regarding race or gender that keep your efforts from being recognized, screw yourself if you don't make it".

Imo, it's not just Trump who is the problem ... the Dems are broken, too.

I will not argue that, starting with the Media pushing a lie of a war.

 

[MaryAnne11]

Trump is bad for business and he will have to be destroyed no matter what this does to the republican party in the short term.

That's probably true, it's probably the smart thing to do, and the Lincoln Project types probably know it.

There is going to be another fake populist along any time now while enough dirt will emerge on Trump to finally bury him. The Trumpbots love to attack but they have been having too play defense way too much. A new leader without all the baggage is what they crave right now.

You may be right on that.

 

[Bernhard]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Word

I agreed with about 80% of Orange Jesus's policies

But the guy has no business being near the WH. He's a lying narcissistic whiner who puts himself above the country and would sell his worshippers down the river in a heartbeat. How he has behaved after the election will mean he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history as he has tried to overturn an election, attacked our institutions, and tried to deny the sovereign will of the people. He's a tin-pot dictator wannabe from one of these shithole countries he denigrates.

Yes, I'm very cautious about Trump giving up international cooperation and "the West", but I do agree with the general idea of some things he did. For example, I think globalized unlimited free trade must be scaled back. Or that allowing massive illegal immigration is not a good thing. Or that Germany (my country) must pay more for NATO.

That said? Such a divisive person who constantly fueled hate and mistrust, by calling even peaceful protestors against police violence "terrorists", who smears and insults veterans, who mocks and makes fun of handicapped people, who calls for violence in his name on national tv should he lose the election (his remark towards the "Proud Boys" during the debate), who even fails to distance from white suprematists or conspiracy lunatics when directly asked about them ... really, such a person just is not fit for office when it comes to his basic character.

 

[Meathead]

It's going to be at least another four years of whining, grievance, misinformation, lying and conspiracy theories.

Because that's what the GOP has become.

The irony in that is nothing less than stunning from someone has presumably followed politics for the last four years.

Did you actually think that comment through?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Putin Funded Lincoln Project is a pimple on the world's ass

 

[JoeB131]

I just wonder if dropping Trump is enough. All the problems that allowed Trump to do what he did are still in place:

We have a broken media landscape where people get confronted with massive amounts of fake news online, and even the "traditional media", the tv networks, are totally divided along partisan lines and don't hide their bias anymore. It's next to impossible these days to watch or read news these days and to know which of it is true and which isn't ... many stories are totally made up, and even those which are true are often covered in massive bias.

Too many people can't tell fake news from serious information, and too many people give a damn about good journalism. Winning has become more important than facts and truth -- and when it helps you winning, a lie is fair game for too many.

I agree... media is part of the problem when they are trying to get an audience, rather than inform. I flipped back and forth between MSNBC and Fox yesterday... Fox was all about Hunter Biden and that Chinese Spy Babe. MSNBC was all about Trump's tantrums and the Virus. You'd think we were talking about two different countries.

And then ... there are many, many people who have been let down by both parties in the past decades. People who lost their jobs or were screwed over by both Democrats and Republicans just acting in the interest of those who've made it. Many of them supported or still support Trump, because he at least pretended he cared for them.

There was a time when the Democrats told the losers of the rat race that they deserve a dignified life, a share of the cake, too ... now they've abandoned them, they say "as long as it's not a bias regarding race or gender that keep your efforts from being recognized, screw yourself if you don't make it".

Imo, it's not just Trump who is the problem ... the Dems are broken, too.

I do think that the Democrats have lost the White Working class, because they have to make a harder sell, which is that the poor Hispanic Lesbian is really in the same boat you are... while the GOP can just play on their racial and sexual fears.

But this is nothing new... In fact, The GOP has gotten between 50-60% of the White vote in every presidential election since 1968. The only times they got outside that range was 1984, when Reagan ran the table, and 92/96, when Ross Perot split the white vote allowing Ross Perot to run the table. The best showing the Democrats had with the White vote was 1976 when Jimmy Carter barely beat Jerry Ford after Watergate and Vietnam.

Trump got 58% of the white vote in 2016, and we don't have numbers for this year yet, but it's probably the same.

 

[rightwinger]

Republicans seem to show no inclination to rid themselves of Trump. They fear his wrath.
They claim they are only putting up with his bullshit until the Georgia election......But their cowardice will last as they fear that MAGA crowd

 

[Aldo Raine]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

Only 81 million cares what Mac thinks! He also laid out some of the problems Democrats have to work on if you had read his post instead of mindlessly insulting. I doubt you even bothered to read it.

Yes, Mac, there are many things Democrats need to work on down ticket but it is hard for reasonable people when you have 1/3 rd of the Country spouting mindless hate and rage. Trump brought out and encouraged the worst. It has always been there but is now in the open.

I have been on a lot of boards and am surprised how much the Mods allow here. Where are they?

See post 13, above. Ripping off the scab may be the only way to deal with this. The Lincoln Project types will lay low for a while, but they're not stopping. This will be tough as hell, though.

Hey, regarding the mods, I'm a big freedom of expression advocate. I'm fine with the Trumpsters jumping in like that. Shine the light on them. That's how Trump got voted out, let them self-identify for us.

Exactly, let them bloviate and carry on with their nonsense. Makes them easy to identify and hopefully get help for.

MAGA

 

[MaryAnne11]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Word

I agreed with about 80% of Orange Jesus's policies

But the guy has no business being near the WH. He's a lying narcissistic whiner who puts himself above the country and would sell his worshippers down the river in a heartbeat. How he has behaved after the election will mean he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history as he has tried to overturn an election, attacked our institutions, and tried to deny the sovereign will of the people. He's a tin-pot dictator wannabe from one of these shithole countries he denigrates.

Yes, I'm very cautious about Trump giving up international cooperation and "the West", but I do agree with the general idea of some things he did. For example, I think globalized unlimited free trade must be scaled back. Or that allowing massive illegal immigration is not a good thing. Or that Germany (my country) must pay more for NATO.

That said? Such a divisive person who constantly fueled hate and mistrust, by calling even peaceful protestors against police violence "terrorists", who smears and insults veterans, who mocks and makes fun of handicapped people, who calls for violence in his name on national tv should he lose the election (his remark towards the "Proud Boys" during the debate), who even fails to distance from white suprematists or conspiracy lunatics when directly asked about them ... really, such a person just is not fit for office when it comes to his basic character.

You touched on Germany paying more. Obama had already been working on that but little was known. That is one of the huge grievances heard from the average worker for 40 years. The Marshall plan should have been abandoned long ago. Workers watched tax breaks being given by a Lobbyist owned Congress to send plants over seas, Workers turned their anger on the wrong people.NAFTA, a Bush program but foolishly signed by Clinton cemented the anger.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

Only 81 million cares what Mac thinks! He also laid out some of the problems Democrats have to work on if you had read his post instead of mindlessly insulting. I doubt you even bothered to read it.

Yes, Mac, there are many things Democrats need to work on down ticket but it is hard for reasonable people when you have 1/3 rd of the Country spouting mindless hate and rage. Trump brought out and encouraged the worst. It has always been there but is now in the open.

I have been on a lot of boards and am surprised how much the Mods allow here. Where are they?

See post 13, above. Ripping off the scab may be the only way to deal with this. The Lincoln Project types will lay low for a while, but they're not stopping. This will be tough as hell, though.

Hey, regarding the mods, I'm a big freedom of expression advocate. I'm fine with the Trumpsters jumping in like that. Shine the light on them. That's how Trump got voted out, let them self-identify for us.

Exactly, let them bloviate and carry on with their nonsense. Makes them easy to identify and hopefully get help for.

MAGA

That's key to actually getting stuff done: Seeing the whole picture.

 

[MaryAnne11]

Putin Funded Lincoln Project is a pimple on the world's ass

Oh, for Heavens sake, get real!

 

[Taz]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

At the same time, they did do better than expected down ticket (or was it the Democrats doing worse than expected?), so that just muddies the waters even more. So what do the next few years look like for the GOP?

Never-Trump movement splinters as its villain heads for the exit

"Is there a market for an anti-Trump Republican Party now?” said one prominent member of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. “I would say no.”

www.politico.com

‘Everything’s great’: GOP ditches election post-mortems

Mitt Romney lost by 5 million votes in 2012 and sparked a 100-page RNC autopsy report. Donald Trump lost by 7 million and there isn’t a peep.

www.politico.com

Oh, for Trumpsters: Ignore all this, he won, "by a lot", they cheated, he'll stay in office, MAGA.

Trump is the GOP.

the GOTP, the Grand Old Trump Party.

 

[Polishprince]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

From the standpoint of the Lincoln Project, their key has to be to fight against any investigation of the 2020 election- giving the Trump Base the idea that they lost, tough shit and no one care about the election integrity is a key to getting them to withdraw from politics.

The 2nd point that the LP folks should do is to put a lot of money and influence into the Georgia Senate races. If the D's capture the Senate, they will be able to admit new liberal states, make illegal aliens into voting citizens, give the vote to 16 year olds and felons, etc. Whatever needs to be done to make pursuing political power pointless for any future Trump wannabes.

Running separate candidates is sort of stupid, I can't see that as much of a strategy.

But the Republican Party can be recaptured by the Romney/Kasich wing of the party as they adapt to the position of 2nd place finishers in their ivory towers and think tanks.

 

[Meathead]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

At the same time, they did do better than expected down ticket (or was it the Democrats doing worse than expected?), so that just muddies the waters even more. So what do the next few years look like for the GOP?

Never-Trump movement splinters as its villain heads for the exit

"Is there a market for an anti-Trump Republican Party now?” said one prominent member of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. “I would say no.”

www.politico.com

‘Everything’s great’: GOP ditches election post-mortems

Mitt Romney lost by 5 million votes in 2012 and sparked a 100-page RNC autopsy report. Donald Trump lost by 7 million and there isn’t a peep.

www.politico.com

Oh, for Trumpsters: Ignore all this, he won, "by a lot", they cheated, he'll stay in office, MAGA.

Trump is the GOP.

the GOTP, the Grand Old Trump Party.

Whatever

 

[JoeB131]

In AZ GA and WI, Republican Congressional candidates received not only more votes than Trump, but more than Trump's margin of defeat.

Those were Republicans either not voting or voting for Biden. Had those Never Trumpers voted for Trump, Trump would have won.

But that's really not indicative. Most of those races weren't competitive. So, yeah, you might vote for your congressman, whose done a reasonable good job and didn't get caught having an affair with his page, but still vote for Biden. It's not really an indication that the "Never Trumpers" have had an effect.

Absolutely. It looks like I have a kindred spirit here. The Dems refused to look at the reasons Trump won in the first place, and they're the same reasons they underperformed in 2020.

And agreed, getting rid of Trump won't be enough. The frustrations and paranoia and anger that allowed him in the door will still be there, and now they have a martyr on top of that.

This is a freakin' mess, and it won't clean up quickly.

Ah, yes, Mitlaufer Mac whining for his Lost White Privilege...

Democrats didn't underperform. They didn't win districts that were already drawn to favor Republicans in a race where more voters showed up. It's not unsual for a party to get a surge in the midterms and then give up those gains in the general. For instance, the GOP picked up seats in 1992, despite Poppy Bush losing.

As stated above, the fact is, White people have vote pretty consistently for Republicans since 1968....

What happened in 2016 was too many self-righteous assholes voted third party to feel better about themselves, because they were convinced Hillary had it in the bag and didn't need their votes.

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

I agree this was an unusual election.

that said, in terms of percentages, Biden got less than Obama, Trump got less than Romney and slightly more than McCain. People on both sides were more motivated to vote, but it was not because Republicans have abandoned Trump. For every Wall Street guy like Toro who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump, there were five working class whites who never bothered to vote before, but came out because they realize they don't have the affluence their parents had and Trump gives them non-white scapegoats.

 

[Mac1958]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

From the standpoint of the Lincoln Project, their key has to be to fight against any investigation of the 2020 election- giving the Trump Base the idea that they lost, tough shit and no one care about the election integrity is a key to getting them to withdraw from politics.

The 2nd point that the LP folks should do is to put a lot of money and influence into the Georgia Senate races. If the D's capture the Senate, they will be able to admit new liberal states, make illegal aliens into voting citizens, give the vote to 16 year olds and felons, etc. Whatever needs to be done to make pursuing political power pointless for any future Trump wannabes.

Running separate candidates is sort of stupid, I can't see that as much of a strategy.

But the Republican Party can be recaptured by the Romney/Kasich wing of the party as they adapt to the position of 2nd place finishers in their ivory towers and think tanks.

The anti-Trumpsters are proceeding under the knowledge that Trump actually did lose, fair and square.

So I suspect they're not going to concentrate on anyone who can't even come to terms with that. At least, not at first.

The question will be how many others exist, and whether there is enough leverage there to bring the party back to sanity.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

This posts documents that although Quid Pro Quo Red Communist Chinese Joe Xiden won, the Dual Diagnosis Chronic Clinical - TDS / Trump OCD has no abated, and is still escalating .
Sad really

 

[MaryAnne11]

In AZ GA and WI, Republican Congressional candidates received not only more votes than Trump, but more than Trump's margin of defeat.

Those were Republicans either not voting or voting for Biden. Had those Never Trumpers voted for Trump, Trump would have won.

But that's really not indicative. Most of those races weren't competitive. So, yeah, you might vote for your congressman, whose done a reasonable good job and didn't get caught having an affair with his page, but still vote for Biden. It's not really an indication that the "Never Trumpers" have had an effect.

Absolutely. It looks like I have a kindred spirit here. The Dems refused to look at the reasons Trump won in the first place, and they're the same reasons they underperformed in 2020.

And agreed, getting rid of Trump won't be enough. The frustrations and paranoia and anger that allowed him in the door will still be there, and now they have a martyr on top of that.

This is a freakin' mess, and it won't clean up quickly.

Ah, yes, Mitlaufer Mac whining for his Lost White Privilege...

Democrats didn't underperform. They didn't win districts that were already drawn to favor Republicans in a race where more voters showed up. It's not unsual for a party to get a surge in the midterms and then give up those gains in the general. For instance, the GOP picked up seats in 1992, despite Poppy Bush losing.

As stated above, the fact is, White people have vote pretty consistently for Republicans since 1968....

What happened in 2016 was too many self-righteous assholes voted third party to feel better about themselves, because they were convinced Hillary had it in the bag and didn't need their votes.

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

I agree this was an unusual election.

that said, in terms of percentages, Biden got less than Obama, Trump got less than Romney and slightly more than McCain. People on both sides were more motivated to vote, but it was not because Republicans have abandoned Trump. For every Wall Street guy like Toro who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump, there were five working class whites who never bothered to vote before, but came out because they realize they don't have the affluence their parents had and Trump gives them non-white scapegoats.

Gerrymandering has been a big part of the problem. We voted for an Independent Commission. That will take place in 2021. Many other states are doing the same. I can not wait to see Jim Jordan’s hugely gerrymandered District shrink. Boehner was in charge of the draw then.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's going to be at least another four years of whining, grievance, misinformation, lying and conspiracy theories.

Because that's what the GOP has become.

The irony in that is nothing less than stunning from someone has presumably followed politics for the last four years.

Did you actually think that comment through?

Toro slid way downhill recently. He hasn't been himself

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In AZ GA and WI, Republican Congressional candidates received not only more votes than Trump, but more than Trump's margin of defeat.

Those were Republicans either not voting or voting for Biden. Had those Never Trumpers voted for Trump, Trump would have won.

But that's really not indicative. Most of those races weren't competitive. So, yeah, you might vote for your congressman, whose done a reasonable good job and didn't get caught having an affair with his page, but still vote for Biden. It's not really an indication that the "Never Trumpers" have had an effect.

Absolutely. It looks like I have a kindred spirit here. The Dems refused to look at the reasons Trump won in the first place, and they're the same reasons they underperformed in 2020.

And agreed, getting rid of Trump won't be enough. The frustrations and paranoia and anger that allowed him in the door will still be there, and now they have a martyr on top of that.

This is a freakin' mess, and it won't clean up quickly.

Ah, yes, Mitlaufer Mac whining for his Lost White Privilege...

Democrats didn't underperform. They didn't win districts that were already drawn to favor Republicans in a race where more voters showed up. It's not unsual for a party to get a surge in the midterms and then give up those gains in the general. For instance, the GOP picked up seats in 1992, despite Poppy Bush losing.

As stated above, the fact is, White people have vote pretty consistently for Republicans since 1968....

What happened in 2016 was too many self-righteous assholes voted third party to feel better about themselves, because they were convinced Hillary had it in the bag and didn't need their votes.

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

I agree this was an unusual election.

that said, in terms of percentages, Biden got less than Obama, Trump got less than Romney and slightly more than McCain. People on both sides were more motivated to vote, but it was not because Republicans have abandoned Trump. For every Wall Street guy like Toro who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump, there were five working class whites who never bothered to vote before, but came out because they realize they don't have the affluence their parents had and Trump gives them non-white scapegoats.

Gerrymandering has been a big part of the problem. We voted for an Independent Commission. That will take place in 2021. Many other states are doing the same. I can not wait to see Jim Jordan’s hugely gerrymandered District shrink. Boehner was in charge of the draw then.

LOL! Gerrymandering: it's only cool when it helps Commie democrats