The Palestinian National Identity as it is: no lies, propaganda and hidden agendas allowed

[Hossfly]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Yes. I do think they were (and are) wrong. I think the emotional drama of your statement demonstrates the ideology with which the Arab Muslims view the situation. The problem is not presented as Palestinian self-determination. The underlying problem is the belief that the Joooooos will enslave us! The HORROR!

Let's face reality here. Unless one has been in a coma for years and years, we have seen the population in the U.S. change. There have been Asians, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etc. moving to America in huge numbers for the jobs, freedom and opportunities this country offers. If people were honest they would realize that the same thing happened in Israel. Why should these poor Arabs stay put in their own countries when they could move to a country where things would be much better for them. The British officials in the area recognized what was happening.

About the only indigenous there, apart from the Jews who never left and some Christians, were the Bedouins who moved around from place to place. Does anyone really think this man was lying about his observations.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

Then how about the observation of this man's wife's grandfathers. Were they lying too?


The Arabs in the Holy Land - Natives or Aliens?

 

[montelatici]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Yes. I do think they were (and are) wrong. I think the emotional drama of your statement demonstrates the ideology with which the Arab Muslims view the situation. The problem is not presented as Palestinian self-determination. The underlying problem is the belief that the Joooooos will enslave us! The HORROR!

Let's face reality here. Unless one has been in a coma for years and years, we have seen the population in the U.S. change. There have been Asians, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etc. moving to America in huge numbers for the jobs, freedom and opportunities this country offers. If people were honest they would realize that the same thing happened in Israel. Why should these poor Arabs stay put in their own countries when they could move to a country where things would be much better for them. The British officials in the area recognized what was happening.

About the only indigenous there, apart from the Jews who never left and some Christians, were the Bedouins who moved around from place to place. Does anyone really think this man was lying about his observations.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

Then how about the observation of this man's wife's grandfathers. Were they lying too?


The Arabs in the Holy Land - Natives or Aliens?

Quit posting propaganda. Here are the facts.

AN INTERIM REPORT​

ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF​

​

PALESTINE,​

​

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.​

AN INTERIM REPORT​

ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.​

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.
​

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine.

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/349B02280A930813052565E90048ED1C

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, et al,

The BS piles up so high on the Arab Palestinian side --- I need energizer bunny wings --- just to stay above it.

Victims of violations of Customary and Humanitarian Laws (IHL), as well as, Article 1 (UN Charter) as guaranteed by international and humanitarian law are entitled to effective remedies. According to Article 3 (Hague Regulation), which reflects norms of Customary IHL.

Article 3: A belligerent party which violates the provisions of the said Regulations shall, if the case demands, be liable to pay compensation. It shall be responsible for all acts committed by persons forming part of its armed forces. (1907 HR)
​

"In order to pave the way for future reconciliation, all claims arising out of the conflict should be settled. Reaching a comprehensive and sustainable peace agreement requires that the wrongs committed during the conflict are addressed and redressed." (PLO-NAD)
​

The demand to settle all claims, before a reconciliation can move forward, is in itself, a roadblock to negotiation and peace.

This is a common practice of the Arab Palestinian. They claim "nothing is ever their fault" and they are always the victim.

Actually, that's been a Jewish mantra over the centuries.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis, look at themselves in reflection, quite frequently. As you and your comrades point-out --- they apply advanced legal reviews (military and civilian) and proceedings that are not (in any case) self-serving. And there are a number of reasonably solid people that differ.

Historical evidence accumulated from a distance past, only works for one side.

It is OK to listen to Jewish Historians that are pro-Arab Palestinian ---- BUT ---- it is not OK to (say) listen to the authors of Resolution 242.
​

The Arab Palestinians have played cry-baby so much --- over the more than half-century since the Arab League's interdiction of force --- that the demands border on the insane. If the Jewish have a mantra, it is to secure and protect the Citizen and the State of Israel from further attacks and abuse from the regional anti-semitics under the false color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Yes. I do think they were (and are) wrong. I think the emotional drama of your statement demonstrates the ideology with which the Arab Muslims view the situation. The problem is not presented as Palestinian self-determination. The underlying problem is the belief that the Joooooos will enslave us! The HORROR!

Let's face reality here. Unless one has been in a coma for years and years, we have seen the population in the U.S. change. There have been Asians, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etc. moving to America in huge numbers for the jobs, freedom and opportunities this country offers. If people were honest they would realize that the same thing happened in Israel. Why should these poor Arabs stay put in their own countries when they could move to a country where things would be much better for them. The British officials in the area recognized what was happening.

About the only indigenous there, apart from the Jews who never left and some Christians, were the Bedouins who moved around from place to place. Does anyone really think this man was lying about his observations.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

Then how about the observation of this man's wife's grandfathers. Were they lying too?


The Arabs in the Holy Land - Natives or Aliens?

Quit posting propaganda. Here are the facts.

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.
​

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

 

[Hossfly]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Yes. I do think they were (and are) wrong. I think the emotional drama of your statement demonstrates the ideology with which the Arab Muslims view the situation. The problem is not presented as Palestinian self-determination. The underlying problem is the belief that the Joooooos will enslave us! The HORROR!

Let's face reality here. Unless one has been in a coma for years and years, we have seen the population in the U.S. change. There have been Asians, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etc. moving to America in huge numbers for the jobs, freedom and opportunities this country offers. If people were honest they would realize that the same thing happened in Israel. Why should these poor Arabs stay put in their own countries when they could move to a country where things would be much better for them. The British officials in the area recognized what was happening.

About the only indigenous there, apart from the Jews who never left and some Christians, were the Bedouins who moved around from place to place. Does anyone really think this man was lying about his observations.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

Then how about the observation of this man's wife's grandfathers. Were they lying too?


The Arabs in the Holy Land - Natives or Aliens?

Quit posting propaganda. Here are the facts.

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.
​

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Quit spamming the board with the same old, same old. There is nothing like an eye-witness account. Now can you show us anyone writing anything in the 1600's that says they saw lots of Arabs living there? Do you have any eye-witnesses from the 1800's who said they saw loads of Arabs living there. You are trying so hard to have the viewers believe that the Jews should have nothing that one wonders what your motive really is.

Now, readers, you will see Monte spam the same thing over and over again. He must think that hundreds of new readers come to this forum ever day, and he doesn't want anyone to miss anything he posts..

 

[montelatici]

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

 

[Hossfly]

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

Wow, this Monte has some kind of agenda. Actually, I believe the eye-witness accounts. People who were there certainly saw what was going on. There were mainly Jews, then Christians, and Bedouin who came and went as was their habit. The Arabs came later on when there were employment opportunities for them. Unless you only get out of your place for your shock treatments, you certainly must see the changes in the U.S. population. The people who have come here and are still coming from various areas of the world are doing so for the same reason the Arabs left their surrounding Middle East countries.

By the way, the Christians want to be called Arameans,


Christians in the Holy Land: Don’t Call Us Arabs

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

Wow, this Monte has some kind of agenda. Actually, I believe the eye-witness accounts. People who were there certainly saw what was going on. There were mainly Jews, then Christians, and Bedouin who came and went as was their habit. The Arabs came later on when there were employment opportunities for them. Unless you only get out of your place for your shock treatments, you certainly must see the changes in the U.S. population. The people who have come here and are still coming from various areas of the world are doing so for the same reason the Arabs left their surrounding Middle East countries.

By the way, the Christians want to be called Arameans,


Christians in the Holy Land: Don’t Call Us Arabs

It is an Israeli thing to call all Palestinians Arabs. It is their way to erase the existence of Palestinians.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

It is not about who, lived (was in residence) where... It is all about who had the title and rights...

This residency issue (Arabs living under Ottoman Rule in a territory called Palestine that had no fixed boundary under the Ottomans and not a political subdivision) and religious emphasis (Muslims and Christians) is merely an attempt to apply some new criteria to the question at hand. But it has NO bearing on what powers determine the future of the territory.

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

(COMMENT)

It really doesn't matter who lived there. It only matters that decisions that are made along the timeline are made with authority; understanding what rules, conventions, covenants, treaties, agreements, and other considerations apply when.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

The BS piles up so high on the Arab Palestinian side --- I need energizer bunny wings --- just to stay above it.

I couldn't find wings for you Rocco, but here's a balloon:

​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine is a multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic place. None of that matters. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless.

 

[Shusha]

Palestine is a multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic place. None of that matters. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless.

Oh please. The only part of "Palestine" which is multi-ethnic and multi-religious is Israel.

 

[Phoenall]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Enslavement?! Seriously?

It is his islamocatholic brainwashing to blame, he knows that the muslims and Catholics have enslaved whole peoples over the last 2000 years and so projects this onto the Jews. The only enslavement is that by the arab muslims who still force women and children to act as human shields, then use their deaths as propaganda against the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

I'd like to start this thread by making clear what the palestinian national identity IS NOT:

It's not the result of international legal documents, the Treaty of Lausanne, the Palestinian Citizenship Order etc, etc...

Anyone who has ever followed RoccoR and Tinmore's endless debates over the legal maze that marked the partition of Palestine is familiar with the exagerated importance they attribute to formal legal concepts of citizenship and nationality established by the Mandate.

The international legal framework that led to the creation of Israel has its importance in the overall debate but the creation of the palestinian national identity is not one of them.

The creation of national identities derived from colonialism like the american, south african and palestinian national identities is a long-term historical-political, sociological-psychological process that spans over the period of years, decades and even centuries and are not the result of signed documents conferring citizenships, nationalities and other unimportant legal formalities but of the gradual acceptance of the new identity by the inhabitants of the land.

Let's use the IP conflict itself to illustrate how national identities are infinitelly more important than legal concepts like citizenship:

The turning point in which the idea of Palestine as the national homeland of their inhabitants finally supplanted the idea of Southern Syria, the idea of uniting Palestine with Syria was when french troops invaded Damacus and toppled the Kingdom of Syria, in 1920.

From that moment on, the arab elites in Palestine realized they were on their own in their struggle to save their homeland from Zionism, abandonned Pan-syrianism and started to spread the idea of Palestine as their national homeland.

In the few months after July, 12 the palestinian national identity, at long last, won the battle against the syrian identity and, in the next years and decades, began to slowly spread and being internalized from the arab elites in Palestine to the common man on the streets of Jerusalem, Haifa and throughout the countryside.

Why was Jordan's decision to confer Jordanian CITIZENSHIP to palestinian refugees and WB residents a miserable failure that ended in open war, in Black September?

Because in 1954 the basic foundation of the palestinian NATIONAL IDENTITY was already formed, those individuals already thought about themselves as a distinct group within the arab nation just like americans think about themselves as a separate people within the Anglosphere and at that stage no conferring of jordanian citizenship could change this psychological reality anymore.

In their minds, the struggle for the land lost to Israel separated them from Syrians, Egyptians and Jordanians.

Before 1920, before the triumph and gradual consolidation of the palestinian NATIONAL IDENTITY this act might have made a difference (highly, extremely unlikely, I'm really just trying to make my point clear).

But by 1954, Abdullah might just as well have conferred them american, chinese or russian CITIZENSHIP... they would all be equally disregarded by the people as a worthless piece of paper that did not reflect who they were:

THE GROUP OF ARABS WHO EXPERIENCED A UNIQUE HISTORIC PLIGHT, JEWISH COLONIZATION AND DISPOSSESSION.

The abysmal failure of Jordan's attempt to "Jordanize" the palestinian people that culminated in Black September is a testament to the fact that NATIONAL IDENTITIES are infinitely more important than legal concepts like CITIZENSHIP.

But try and convince RoccoR and Tinmore of this reality and see what you get.

Rocco and Tinmore reduce the whole universe to international legislation. In their minds there's no room for sociological, psychological concepts...

The entire cosmos is reduced to treaties, covenants, agreements, mandates, etc, etc...

Their obssession with Law leads them to believe that the palestinian national identity, the american national identity cannot possibly be the result of long-term historical, sociological processes... they can only be the result of treaties, citizenship acts, etc, etc...

I'm gonna analyze some of their posts and you're gonna understand what I mean.

The problem with your summation Jose is,..Palestinians have always lived in the ara we know as Palestine...They are quite distinct as a people,quite unlike other Arabic people throughout the Middle East,BE THEY CUSTOMS,MENTALITY ETC,...Thet are not and never have been Syrian,Jordanian or Egyptian,...They are clearly not Jewish (who are made up from a polyglot of different peoples)

And again the loon deny's the existence of Jews in palestine before the arab musims and Christians were invented. Even the arab muslim leaders say that the palestinians are migrants from Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Jordan and Saudi. They have no diverse customs and their mentallity is that of a 7C mentally deranged psychopath.
The genetic evidence shows that were it counts the Jews are a separate and distinct race with no mingling with other races/groups.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not just any one single arrangement or recommendation that the Arab Palestinian has "rejected" --- but every single one of the opportunities to help bring self-governing institutions of a peaceful nature and a safe and stable Jewish National Home to the territory to which the Allied Powers had all titles and rights (ie had not be under Arab Sovereignty for centuries).

(COMMENT)

You have yet to identify the "colonial power" for that allegation.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was a British/Zionist joint venture.

That you refuse to provide links for because you know they dont say what you claim

Zionists extracted 1917 Balfour Declaration from British as price for bringing U.S. into WWI

A conspiracy theorist is the best you have, so much for unbiased sources

Promises and Betrayals - Middle East - History Channel Documentary

Still does not say what you claim it does, so keep trying.

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine is a multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic place. None of that matters. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless.

Yep the Jewish part, the arab muslim part is nearly wholly arab muslim with the Jews evicted from gaza and 90% of the Christians evicted or murdered from gaza and the west bank

 

[Phoenall]

Do you think they were wrong to resist enslavement by and rule of people newly transferred from another continent?

Yes. I do think they were (and are) wrong. I think the emotional drama of your statement demonstrates the ideology with which the Arab Muslims view the situation. The problem is not presented as Palestinian self-determination. The underlying problem is the belief that the Joooooos will enslave us! The HORROR!

Let's face reality here. Unless one has been in a coma for years and years, we have seen the population in the U.S. change. There have been Asians, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etc. moving to America in huge numbers for the jobs, freedom and opportunities this country offers. If people were honest they would realize that the same thing happened in Israel. Why should these poor Arabs stay put in their own countries when they could move to a country where things would be much better for them. The British officials in the area recognized what was happening.

About the only indigenous there, apart from the Jews who never left and some Christians, were the Bedouins who moved around from place to place. Does anyone really think this man was lying about his observations.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

Then how about the observation of this man's wife's grandfathers. Were they lying too?


The Arabs in the Holy Land - Natives or Aliens?

Quit posting propaganda. Here are the facts.

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.
​

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

No facts in that report just nazi propaganda. It is a pre-mandate document that sets out to diminish the Jews rights to a homeland because certain people wanted to cosy up to the muslims. Just because it is lodged in the UN archives does not make it a valid UN document, far from it.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

Jews, non arab muslims, Christians and a few arab muslims

 

[Phoenall]

Oh, you mean fact and not bullshit as you post. Who do you think lived in Palestine, Martians? Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine.

Wow, this Monte has some kind of agenda. Actually, I believe the eye-witness accounts. People who were there certainly saw what was going on. There were mainly Jews, then Christians, and Bedouin who came and went as was their habit. The Arabs came later on when there were employment opportunities for them. Unless you only get out of your place for your shock treatments, you certainly must see the changes in the U.S. population. The people who have come here and are still coming from various areas of the world are doing so for the same reason the Arabs left their surrounding Middle East countries.

By the way, the Christians want to be called Arameans,


Christians in the Holy Land: Don’t Call Us Arabs

It is an Israeli thing to call all Palestinians Arabs. It is their way to erase the existence of Palestinians.

Never heard that one before, how about a LINK that actually says this ?

The nazi's and anti semites deny that the Jews existed in palestine after the Roman Empire, and that the ones stolen by the Catholics as slaves and who are now returning are European converts. They even invented a country and a people to prove these tall tales. This is done to erase all existence of the Jews from their homelands and eradicate their rights under international laws

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine is a multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic place. None of that matters. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless.

Oh please. The only part of "Palestine" which is multi-ethnic and multi-religious is Israel.

You should know that is not true.