The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[montelatici]

Ruddy the masochist.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[Roudy]

Ruddy the masochist.

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

"1882".
Fail.

 

[montelatici]

LOL Ruddy the masochist. Proven wrong at every turn.

 

[Roudy]

He got caught lying misquoting an article, and was humiliated. Yet he keeps coming back repeating the same garbage.

With friends like that the Palestinians don't need any enemies. Ha ha ha.

 

[montelatici]

Historical facts that prove Ruddy is a propagandist are called misquotes by Ruddy. Let's repeat the fact. Where is the miquote Bozo?

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[Roudy]

Hah! The shameless propogandist talks of facts. Ya gotta love it.

I think the moron doesn't know when the inquisition happened?

In 1517 the Turks defeated the Mamlukes, starting almost 400 years of Ottoman rule. As a result of the Spanish Expulsion many Jews settled in Tzfat. They brought life and economic success to the city, starting a period of roughly 200 years that was known as the Golden Age of Safed. Amongst the new settlers were many great Kabbalist whose presents in Tzfat gave it its permanent title as the 'City of Kabbalah'. By the late 1600's the Golden Age of Safed started coming to an end, more people were preferring to live in Yerushalaim and the community was crippled by a Druze rampage of destruction and a devastating earthquake.

Refugees from the Inquisition
Many Jews who fled the Inquisition in Spain and Portugal made their way to Israel in the 15th and 16th centuries. Most settled in Jerusalem but some were drawn to Tzfat, especially the Kabbalists. The study of Kabbalah was partly developed in the 2nd century A.D. in Northern Israel. Many Kabbalists who moved to the Land of Israel after the upheavals of the Inquisition wanted to live and study in the area where the holy sage, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, author of the Kabbalistic “Zohar” had lived and taught.

City of Kabbalah
Rabbi Isaac Luria, the ARI was one of the great Kabbalists who came to live in Zefat during the 16th century. The ARI only lived in Tzfat for under three years but during this period he taught and refined the study of Jewish mysticism. Lurianic Kabbalah emphasizes how a Jew’s understanding of the secrets of the Torah can enhance his relationships with G-d and with his fellow man. Lurianic Kabbalah played a strong influence on the development of the Hassidic movement and most Kabbalah scholars, even today, study the ARI’s teachings. Due to the ARI’s influence in Tsfat, the Jewish World began to regard Tzfat as the 'City of Kabbala'.

Other great scholars who lived in Tzfat included Rabbi Moshe Cordovero, Rabbi Ya’akov Beirav, Rabbi Shlomo Alkabetz, Rabbi Moshe ben Yosef di Trani, Rabbi Elazar Azkari, Rabbi Chaim Vital and Rabbi Yosef Caro. Rabbi Caro’s scholarly work “Shulhan Aruch” played a major role in helping post-Inquisition far-flung Jewish communities maintain proper Jewish observances and laws.

 

[Roudy]

Monte having a problem dealing with the truth and reality, what else is new?

Ottoman Empire: A Safe Haven for Jewish Refugees

Interestingly, it was the Sephardic Jews who introduced the printing press into the Ottoman Empire. Sephardic Jews whose ancestors were at the center of the Golden Age of Spain recreated a new golden age within Ottoman lands. Rabbi Joseph Caro wrote the Shulchan Aruch, the standard code of Jewish law in Safed, Israel, under Ottoman Turkish rule. The Lekhah Dodi prayer which Jews to date traditionally sing in the Friday evening synagogue services around the world, was composed in medieval Israel by Rabbi Shlomo Alkabetz under Ottoman Turkish rule. Joseph Nasi was appointed Duke of Naxos, while Aluaro Mandes was named Duke of Mytylene and Salamon ben Nathan Eskenazi arranged the first diplomatic ties between the Ottoman Turks and the British Empire.

Wealthy Sephardic Jews such as Dona Gracia Mendes Nasi financed the Ottoman Turkish sultan. In return for the contributions of Dana Gracia Mendes Nasi to the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Sultan offered the Jewish people the city of Tiberius for an independent city state under Ottoman tutelage. Despite local Arab and French opposition, Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent continued to support the project.

 

[montelatici]

The fact:

"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[Roudy]

The fact:

Peacemakers in Action

"Turkish Sultan invited Jews fleeing from the Catholic Inquisition to settle in Palestine and other parts of the Ottoman Empire, whose capital was Constantinople..."

 

[Roudy]

Poor Monte, can't deal with the fact. Always promoting lies and false propaganda. This is from a Turkish source.

Awwww...boohoo!

The sultan Bayezid sent a fleet for the Spanish Jews, and he ordered his subjects to accept the Jews. In 1497 the successive waves of Jews from the Iberian Peninsula arrived to the Ottoman Empire, this time they escaped Portugal. They became the Ottoman Empire citizens, in return they paid a tax and respected Islam as the state religion. Bayezid claimed that Isabella and Ferdinand’s decision weakened economically their country and reinforced his country.

How Spanish Jews found their second home in the Ottoman Empire?

Bayezid II issued the regulation including the threat of the death penalty for everyone who banned Jews’ access to the Ottoman Empire or who treated them badly. Jews from the Iberian Peninsula settled in Constantinople (today’s Istanbul), Adrianopole (today’s Edirne), Salonika, Jerusalem, Bursa, Damascus and Anatolian’s city Amasya. Jews came to the Ottoman Empire with their considerable wealth, and, as in the Iberian Peninsula, they dealt with finances and loans. Jews enjoyed the support from important people in the state and a large freedom. They constituted a privileged community as the trade with West European countries is concerned, because they had a capital, they knew languages and they could make their businesses freely behind the empire’s borders. It happened that Jews borrowed money to very important and powerful people in the Ottoman Empire.

 

[montelatici]

Confusing a blog that writes things like "It happened that Jews borrowed money to very important and powerful people in the Ottoman Empire" with historical works is hilarious. Let's review the facts:


"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[Shusha]

Do I have this right that monte is arguing FOR the Ottoman's insistence on apartheid policy in preventing the Jewish people from living in certain territory?

 

[montelatici]

Do I have this right that monte is arguing FOR the Ottoman's insistence on apartheid policy in preventing the Jewish people from living in certain territory?

The Ottomans feared that Europeans would create problems in Palestine. They were right as we see today.

"The real reasons lay elsewhere. They were principally two. First, the Sublime Porte feared the possibility of nurturing another national problem in the Empire. Secondly, it did not want to increase the number of foreign subjects, particularly Europeans, in its domains"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Professor John Docker

 

[Shusha]

Do I have this right that monte is arguing FOR the Ottoman's insistence on apartheid policy in preventing the Jewish people from living in certain territory?

The Ottomans feared that Europeans would create problems in Palestine. They were right as we see today.

Ah. So apartheid is okay if the Arabs are doing it. Pesky Jews.

 

[Roudy]

Confusing a blog that writes things like "It happened that Jews borrowed money to very important and powerful people in the Ottoman Empire" with historical works is hilarious. Let's review the facts:


"The Council of Ministers considered the question and in November 1881 it was announced that: OTTOMAN POLICY AND JEWISH SETTLEMENT 313 [Jewish] immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout Turkey, excluding Palestine. They must submit to all the laws of the Empire and become Ottoman subjects 5. With growing numbers of Russian Jews applying to the Ottoman Consul-General at Odessa for visas to enter Palestine, the following notice was posted outside his office a few months later, on April 28, 1882: The Ottoman Government informs all [Jews] wishing to immigrate into Turkey that they are not permitted to settle in Palestine. They may immigrate into the other provinces of [the Empire] and settle as they wish, provided only that they become Ottoman subjects and accept the obligation to fulfil the laws of the Empire"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

You're the confused one, thinking people don't realize that during the inquisitions in the 1500's, the Ottomans did indeed invite and allow Jews to settle into Jerusalem, Safed and many cities in "Palestine", and then 400 years later there was a change in that policy, and even THAT failed misrerably. All in all you've actually helped document a presence and migration of Jews over a period of about 900 years. Which shows their love for the Promised Land. And we thank you for that.

 

[Roudy]

Do I have this right that monte is arguing FOR the Ottoman's insistence on apartheid policy in preventing the Jewish people from living in certain territory?

The Ottomans feared that Europeans would create problems in Palestine. They were right as we see today.

"The real reasons lay elsewhere. They were principally two. First, the Sublime Porte feared the possibility of nurturing another national problem in the Empire. Secondly, it did not want to increase the number of foreign subjects, particularly Europeans, in its domains"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

And according to your own document, it failed.

Can't keep Jews away from their holy land.

 

[montelatici]

Wow it took some time, but Ruddy finally admits that the Ottomans did not invite the European Jews to Palestine.

 

[Roudy]

Actually they totally DID invite the Jews into Palestine, in the 1500's during the Inquisition, and 400 years later in the 1800's tried to reverse that policy. The policy failed as Jews were getting in anyhow, and eventually they scrapped it. Your own document clearly shows this in its conclusion.

 

[Linkiloo]

Do I have this right that monte is arguing FOR the Ottoman's insistence on apartheid policy in preventing the Jewish people from living in certain territory?

The Ottomans feared that Europeans would create problems in Palestine. They were right as we see today.

"The real reasons lay elsewhere. They were principally two. First, the Sublime Porte feared the possibility of nurturing another national problem in the Empire. Secondly, it did not want to increase the number of foreign subjects, particularly Europeans, in its domains"

http://ismi.emory.edu/home/documents/Readings/Mandel, Neville J. Ottoman Policy.pdf

OK so if one "fears" that a group would "cause problems", its legit not to "invite them" to one's domain. I'm wondering why he's tooting the apartheid horn then now in relation to Israel.