The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Shusha]

They can go first.

Exactly. And religion continues to poison everything....

It's not because of religion that they can go first.

It's because of thousands of years of pograms, oppression and genocide of the Jewish people. The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then who is responsible?

The people perpetrating the atrocities are ALWAYS responsible.

please explain further.

What part don't you understand?

 

[Rehmani]

The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then they can stay safe in Israel, behind their wall. That doesn't necessitate a state religion. So I remain unmoved. The reason is still religion, even if you blame it on another religion.

Israel is not a religious State, it is a Secular State, created by Secular Jews.
1).Israel is a religious state but not calling it religious because Muslim/Christian are greater in numbers, specially Muslim, not only greater in numbers but also greater in worship compare to any religion specially compare to jews like salt in flour. For example Muslim recite greater time than jew the prophets of jews than jew. This is the only reason Israeli use secularism instead.

You are not moved? So what?
2).Because jew are not moving at all. Not only you are fanatic religious but racist too. You are living in the world but you don't want to live with mankind.
Islam is basing their desire to destroy Israel on their religious beliefs and ideology.
Islam didn't invade Israel, Jew invade Islamic holly land. Now don't tell me that you are native.

Israel has nothing to do with what islam or Christianity want, which is the destruction of Israel, because they cannot accept the existence of a Jewish State. It is part of their ideology.
3). Again it is jew who invaded Islamic holly land, in fact Islam took over from christian not jew and fact is that before jew were not allowed to enter in holly land. It is King Salahuddin Ayubi who allowed you to live and pray alongside with Muslim and christian in Holly Land for 900 years, but what jew did to Palestinian. That is how jews are deceiver/betrayer, pushed those people out who accommodate them, innocent Palestinian.

Israel exists for the protection of the Jewish people against what has happened during the 1700 years before it reconstitution, and especially what both religions have again proven they are capable of against the Jewish people in the last 100 years.
4).False, Jews never have a country but jew still exist means no one want to kill them, and nobody kill jew over 5000 years. Then what is wrong with jew. Why jew never owned a country. Why jew lived undercover. Why jew don't mix with other mankind. Then why jew didn't follow all prophets. Then why jew tolled to Ala's Prophets that you are not a prophet of Ala.

Are jew playing God if not then why jew are playing Satanic roll. Are jew became Satan chosen people instead.

Too many Christians and Muslims want all the Jews dead.
5).False again, No one want to kill jews. Jew are living around the world and mostly in Muslim/Christian countries and making fortune. It is jew who are jew enemy. Means, Why German punished Jew, because jew sell German secrets to coalition.

The Jews say "We are alive and will continue to live"

6).No one deny it, It is jew who are denying, others rights to live, by invading innocent palestinian livelihood.

Please reply Fourth paragraph if possible.

 

[Rehmani]

Exactly. And religion continues to poison everything....

It's not because of religion that they can go first.

It's because of thousands of years of pograms, oppression and genocide of the Jewish people. The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then who is responsible?

The people perpetrating the atrocities are ALWAYS responsible.

please explain further.

What part don't you understand?

Please give some example, Like identify to those who perpetrating the atrocities.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then they can stay safe in Israel, behind their wall. That doesn't necessitate a state religion. So I remain unmoved. The reason is still religion, even if you blame it on another religion.

Israel is not a religious State, it is a Secular State, created by Secular Jews.
1).Israel is a religious state but not calling it religious because Muslim/Christian are greater in numbers, specially Muslim, not only greater in numbers but also greater in worship compare to any religion specially compare to jews like salt in flour. For example Muslim recite greater time than jew the prophets of jews than jew. This is the only reason Israeli use secularism instead.

You are not moved? So what?
2).Because jew are not moving at all. Not only you are fanatic religious but racist too. You are living in the world but you don't want to live with mankind.
Islam is basing their desire to destroy Israel on their religious beliefs and ideology.
Islam didn't invade Israel, Jew invade Islamic holly land. Now don't tell me that you are native.

Israel has nothing to do with what islam or Christianity want, which is the destruction of Israel, because they cannot accept the existence of a Jewish State. It is part of their ideology.
3). Again it is jew who invaded Islamic holly land, in fact Islam took over from christian not jew and fact is that before jew were not allowed to enter in holly land. It is King Salahuddin Ayubi who allowed you to live and pray alongside with Muslim and christian in Holly Land for 900 years, but what jew did to Palestinian. That is how jews are deceiver/betrayer, pushed those people out who accommodate them, innocent Palestinian.

Israel exists for the protection of the Jewish people against what has happened during the 1700 years before it reconstitution, and especially what both religions have again proven they are capable of against the Jewish people in the last 100 years.
4).False, Jews never have a country but jew still exist means no one want to kill them, and nobody kill jew over 5000 years. Then what is wrong with jew. Why jew never owned a country. Why jew lived undercover. Why jew don't mix with other mankind. Then why jew didn't follow all prophets. Then why jew tolled to Ala's Prophets that you are not a prophet of Ala.

Are jew playing God if not then why jew are playing Satanic roll. Are jew became Satan chosen people instead.

Too many Christians and Muslims want all the Jews dead.
5).False again, No one want to kill jews. Jew are living around the world and mostly in Muslim/Christian countries and making fortune. It is jew who are jew enemy. Means, Why German punished Jew, because jew sell German secrets to coalition.

The Jews say "We are alive and will continue to live"

6).No one deny it, It is jew who are denying, others rights to live, by invading innocent palestinian livelihood.

Please reply Fourth paragraph if possible.

Could you answer this?

Is any and all you post here taught by the Indian Preacher you listen to? Dr. Zakir Naik?

Is he the source of all your questions to us?

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then they can stay safe in Israel, behind their wall. That doesn't necessitate a state religion. So I remain unmoved. The reason is still religion, even if you blame it on another religion.

Israel is not a religious State, it is a Secular State, created by Secular Jews.
1).Israel is a religious state but not calling it religious because Muslim/Christian are greater in numbers, specially Muslim, not only greater in numbers but also greater in worship compare to any religion specially compare to jews like salt in flour. For example Muslim recite greater time than jew the prophets of jews than jew. This is the only reason Israeli use secularism instead.

You are not moved? So what?
2).Because jew are not moving at all. Not only you are fanatic religious but racist too. You are living in the world but you don't want to live with mankind.
Islam is basing their desire to destroy Israel on their religious beliefs and ideology.
Islam didn't invade Israel, Jew invade Islamic holly land. Now don't tell me that you are native.

Israel has nothing to do with what islam or Christianity want, which is the destruction of Israel, because they cannot accept the existence of a Jewish State. It is part of their ideology.
3). Again it is jew who invaded Islamic holly land, in fact Islam took over from christian not jew and fact is that before jew were not allowed to enter in holly land. It is King Salahuddin Ayubi who allowed you to live and pray alongside with Muslim and christian in Holly Land for 900 years, but what jew did to Palestinian. That is how jews are deceiver/betrayer, pushed those people out who accommodate them, innocent Palestinian.

Israel exists for the protection of the Jewish people against what has happened during the 1700 years before it reconstitution, and especially what both religions have again proven they are capable of against the Jewish people in the last 100 years.
4).False, Jews never have a country but jew still exist means no one want to kill them, and nobody kill jew over 5000 years. Then what is wrong with jew. Why jew never owned a country. Why jew lived undercover. Why jew don't mix with other mankind. Then why jew didn't follow all prophets. Then why jew tolled to Ala's Prophets that you are not a prophet of Ala.

Are jew playing God if not then why jew are playing Satanic roll. Are jew became Satan chosen people instead.

Too many Christians and Muslims want all the Jews dead.
5).False again, No one want to kill jews. Jew are living around the world and mostly in Muslim/Christian countries and making fortune. It is jew who are jew enemy. Means, Why German punished Jew, because jew sell German secrets to coalition.

The Jews say "We are alive and will continue to live"

6).No one deny it, It is jew who are denying, others rights to live, by invading innocent palestinian livelihood.

Please reply Fourth paragraph if possible.

Is 4) part of what Dr. Naik speeches are about?


4).False, Jews never have a country
( World History tells that the Jews did have a country)

but jew still exist means no one want to kill them
( Especially since Christianity was created, its followers have been attacking Jews for any excuse. They "killed" Jesus. They "created Plagues", "killed christian children for their blood". etc, etc. All lies which got ignorant Christians upset and they would attack any Jews they would find. Mostly, because Jews became the scapegoat for anything which went wrong with the people who ended up attacking the Jews )

and nobody kill jew over 5000 years.
( Again, History of the World will prove you wrong. And Judaism is only a 3800 year old religion. Even how long Judaism has been around, you are wrong about, from the source which told you that )

Then what is wrong with jew.
( NOTHING. Nothing is wrong with the Jewish People. Christians, and then Muslims wanted to be the main Monotheism, replacing Judaism and wanted to force all Jews to follow either religion. The Jews refused. THAT is the main reason why Christians and Muslims attack Jews as often as they do )

Why jew never owned a country.
( Israel was a Nation 3000 years ago and for a very long period of time. King David was its first King. World history will tell you that .
History of the invaders to the area will tell you that. You do not know Jewish history )

Why jew lived undercover.
( You need to clear that up for us. What do you mean by that?

Why jew don't mix with other mankind.
(Jews have been living all over the world for the past 2500 years. If mixing, you mean, marrying non Jews, that has happened many times of non Jews converting and joining the tribe.

Then why jew didn't follow all prophets.
( More teachings from Dr. Naik? What does he know about Judaism? Does he read Hebrew? Has he read the Torah in its original Hebrew? )

Then why jew told to Ala's Prophets that you are not a prophet of Ala.
( Are you referring to the Jews in Arabia refusing to convert to Islam? Why should they? Why should they accept Mohammad as a prophet only because he said that he was a prophet and wanted them to abandon Judaism? He killed and enslaved them, instead.
What kind of prophet of G-D, especially to the G-D of Abraham would do something like that ?
Jews do not call their G-D Allah. That is Mohammad's idea to call his god after he destroy all the other pagan gods of the Arabs and forced to accept only one god, as the Jews and Christians had.)

Are jew playing God if not then why jew are playing Satanic roll. Are jew became Satan chosen people instead.
(This is complete Christian and Islamic garbage to turn desperate and ignorant people against the Jews. Neither Christianity, nor Islam, accept the Jewish person as a full human, as a human being with full rights because they would not accept Jesus or Allah as their new god.
THAT is what the whole hatred of Jews from both Christianity and Islam is about )

 

[Shusha]

It's not because of religion that they can go first.

It's because of thousands of years of pograms, oppression and genocide of the Jewish people. The Jewish people should be safe first.

Then who is responsible?

The people perpetrating the atrocities are ALWAYS responsible.

please explain further.

What part don't you understand?

Please give some example, Like identify to those who perpetrating the atrocities.

Those who perpetrated atrocities against the Jewish people.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Rehmani, you have many questions in your previous posts about Ishmael and other things you have learned from various sources about things some Muslims have come to believe in as being part of Islam. That is what you seem to have heard from Dr. Naik and other Muslims.
Here is an article which tells how Ishmael and all other Jewish people, or ideas became part of Islam, 2700 years after Judaism was founded by Abraham. Read it. Re read it. These are the facts of Jewish history as they happened, and not how they were changed later by Christianity and Islam. You have any questions about what it says, feel free to ask them. Does it explain how there were no Palestinian Arabs in Ancient Canaan, or Egypt, as a whole group or a tribe? Especially none calling themselves Palestinians or considered to be Palestinians ?
Who was Ishmael, you asked. Do you understand the answer in the article? ]

The myth of the non-Jewish Abraham

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's there right to self determination.

And religion poisons it. As it does everything.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Now, if only you would make clear what you are talking about,

I did . 4 times. Read the discussion before jumping in.

Nope, you are poisoning the well by judging Israel without knowing anything about Israel.

I didn't judge Israel. I judged religion. Again, you jumped in while knowing fuck all about what was being discussed.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It's there right to self determination.

And religion poisons it. As it does everything.

Religion or no religion, it is about power which many people in the past and present, and also in the future do everything for.

It is about power and territory, taking as much territory from others as possible and make them be dependent on them, be their slaves.

At what point in history of humanity have we not seen one tribe or another go into the other's territory and take it from them?

It is about religion? Religion has nothing to do with wanting territory, wealth and power.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It is about religion? Religion has nothing to do with wanting territory, wealth and power.

Bullshit. It does when it does. And the muslims who want Jerusalem all to themselves want it because of religion. Period. Get that apologetic nonsense out of here.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Now, if only you would make clear what you are talking about,

I did . 4 times. Read the discussion before jumping in.

Nope, you are poisoning the well by judging Israel without knowing anything about Israel.

I didn't judge Israel. I judged religion. Again, you jumped in while knowing fuck all about what was being discussed.

You were about Israel being a religious State and wanting it to be a secular State.
We discussed it. You do not accept that it Israel is a Secular State and go on about religion, religion, religion.

No Indiana, I have missed absolutely nothing of what you said.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It is about religion? Religion has nothing to do with wanting territory, wealth and power.

Bullshit. It does when it does. And the muslims who want Jerusalem all to themselves want it because of religion. Period. Get that apologetic nonsense out of here.

Muslims or Christians, it was about their god and about gaining more territory and converting more people.

But you want Israel to become Secular, still. Regardless of the fact that it has always been Secular.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You were about Israel being a religious State and wanting it to be a secular State.

Correct. I was.

You do not accept that it Israel is a Secular State

Correct, because it isn't. The government is deeply went with the Jewish religious institution.

And religion poisons everything. And this thread is about Israel.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You were about Israel being a religious State and wanting it to be a secular State.

Correct. I was.

You do not accept that it Israel is a Secular State

Correct, because it isn't. The government is deeply went with the Jewish religious institution.

And religion poisons everything. And this thread is about Israel.

This thread is about the creation of the State of Israel and the Mandate for Palestine. It is not about whether it is a religious or Secular State.

But go ahead and give us some link as to how the Israeli government is deeply "what ?" with the Jewish religious institution. Exactly how the religious groups, which ones? are running the Israeli government, or making the government do whatever they tell them to.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This thread is about the creation of the State of Israel and the Mandate for Palestine

And saying that I wish they would alter their course and become a true, secular state speaks right to that topic. Don't like that? Tough.

 

[Sixties Fan]

This thread is about the creation of the State of Israel and the Mandate for Palestine

And saying that I wish they would alter their course and become a true, secular state speaks right to that topic. Don't like that? Tough.

You have proven nothing about Israel being a religious State.
All you have been doing is posturing.

No links, no articles, no videos, no nothing.

Au Contraire......quite easy.

 

[flacaltenn]

The purpose of this sticky thread was to discuss the HISTORY and ORIGINS of borders and nations in the Holyland. NOT to rehash modern events in the nation of Israel.. It was created so that arguments did not continually flow back 1000 or more years in EVERY other topic..

Literally NOTHING after the 67 war is appropriate for this thread...

So you need to keep the scope of the discussion WITHIN the framework for which THIS thread has been created.. We may transfer out some of the recent discussion about recent Knesset decision on prioritizing immigration and citizenship to people of Jewish origin..

Please find a more appropriate thread for this discussion or create a new one..