The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Hollie]

On Point. Pat Condell

 

[P F Tinmore]

On Point. Pat Condell

This guy is a comedian, right?

 

[Hollie]

On Point. Pat Condell

This guy is a comedian, right?

And much more successful than you.

Don't quit your day job as a wannabe Ummah'istan, stay here and be the butt of our jokes.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Humanity]

On Point. Pat Condell

An alternative comedian who engages in controversial debate...

A self serving troll in other words!

 

[Indeependent]

On Point. Pat Condell

An alternative comedian who engages in controversial debate...

A self serving troll in other words!

Why am I not surprised that you can't process facts.

 

[Roudy]

Misleading and Harmful: the "Palestinian Loss of Land" Maps

MISLEADING AND HARMFUL: THE "PALESTINIAN LOSS OF LAND" MAPS

These “maps” have been widely circulated by the BDS movement, and they are misleading and dishonest. They appear in the “Zionism Unsettled” study guide. They appear on the websites of the Israel Palestine Mission Network (IPMN) and the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship (PPF). They also appear in the supporting materials for the BDS overtures submitted to the 2014 and upcoming 2016 Presbyterian General Assemblies.

The intent of the maps is clear: to falsely demonstrate an “ethnic cleansing” that did not occur, one perpetrated by the “colonizer” Jews upon “indigenous” Arabs (the incendiary words “colonizer”, “indigenous”, and “ethnic cleansing” are used repeatedly in BDS literature).

In 1946, the area labeled “Palestine” was the British Mandate of Palestine. All who lived there were Palestinians, Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians. In the 1946 “map” these terms change. The Arab Palestinians are now simply “Palestinians.” The word “Palestinian” now means “Arab” and no longer refers to all of the people who live there, and the Jewish Palestinians are simply “Jews”. In 1946 Jews paid over 50% of property taxes in Palestine. Almost half of the land was public land, owned by no one and administered by the British. The premise that the land was almost all “Arab land” is misleading. It was shared land and belonged to no particular ethnic group.

Now let’s consider the 1967 map in terms of “ethnic cleansing”, keeping in mind that before 1948, both Jews and Arabs lived in all of the areas of the British Mandate of Palestine, including the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. It is quite common to hear that the entire West Bank is “Arab Land” and always has been, but numerous Jewish communities existed in what is now the West Bank prior to 1948. These communities were attacked and wiped out by Arab mobs in 1920, 1929 and 1936 and during the war waged by Arab militias and Arab governments in 1947-48. Here are some facts:

Until it was wiped out by Arab riots in 1929 in what is known as the Hebron Massacre, there was a large Jewish community in the center of Hebron

The Jewish population of Jerusalem (which has had a Jewish majority since at least the second half of the 19th century) was dispossessed by the Arab riots of 1929 and 1936 (when Jews fled most of what is now called the Muslim Quarter). In 1948, the Jordanian Legion expelled all of the Jews then living in what is now East Jerusalem and destroyed its holy places.

Sizeable tracts of land owned by Jews in the rural West Bank – including the Gush Etzion settlements, land between Nablus, Jenin and Tulkarm, and in Bethlehem and Hebron – were seized by the Jordanians in 1948.

The ‘Jewish settlements’ north of Jerusalem, Atarot and Neve Yaakov, were evacuated in 1948, under the declared threat of advancing Arab armies to massacre all the Jews in their path.

Today, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians live on land in and around Jerusalem that is still owned by the Jewish National Fund, including the Kalandia refugee camp and the Deheishe refugee camp south of Bethlehem.

Photo below: Jews being expelled from Old City by Jordanian forces 1948

 

[montelatici]

AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

 

[Roudy]

^^^^^
Irrelevant spam.

You know you're getting desperate when you rely on an irrelevant document not designed for population statistics that quotes "only a handful" for a group of people. Ha ha ha!

 

[montelatici]

^^^^^
Irrelevant spam.

You know you're getting desperate when you rely on an irrelevant document not designed for population statistics that quotes "only a handful" for a group of people. Ha ha ha!

You mean the facts don't agree with your propaganda.

 

[montelatici]

http://content.ecf.org.il/files/M00785_1922PalestineCensusEnglish.pdf

72 years after 1850 the 1922 British census has 83,794 Jews in Palestine. After 72 years of European Jew migration. It seems that, in fact, before 1850 there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine, if any at all.

 

[Roudy]

^^^^^
Irrelevant spam.

You know you're getting desperate when you rely on an irrelevant document not designed for population statistics that quotes "only a handful" for a group of people. Ha ha ha!

You mean the facts don't agree with your propaganda.

I mean you're repetitively spamming an irrelvant document not intended for posting population statistics that has been proven totally wrong.

 

[Roudy]

View attachment 145333

View attachment 145334

http://content.ecf.org.il/files/M00785_1922PalestineCensusEnglish.pdf

72 years after 1850 the 1922 British census has 83,794 Jews in Palestine. After 72 years of European Jew migration. It seems that, in fact, before 1850 there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine, if any at all.

Another epic fail. How many times must you embarrass yourself with this jihadi propaganda?

Since the British had just taken over, they therefore had no way of calculating the numbers due to upheavals at mass migrations of illegal Arabs from neighboring Arab lands. The British admitted to this themselves. The best source for the actual numbers are from The Ottomans, who ruled the land for centuries and collected taxes.

http://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF

Jerusalem had become the largest city in Palestine and the political and cultural center of the country at the end of the Ottoman era, on the eve of World War I. Much scholarship on the subject reveals the difficulties in trying to establish definitive population estimates for this period. The Ottoman census figures of 1905 reveal a total of 32,400 Ottoman nationals in Jerusalem: 13,400 Jews, 11,000 Muslims, and 8,000 Christians.49 However, these numbers do not reflect those with foreign nationality living in the city which more than likely would raise the numbers ofJewsandChristians.

Jewish sources for this year contend a much higher number, including one estimating 50,000 Jews in a total population of 75,000. The Ottoman sources for 1914 for the entire Qada' of Jerusalem, give the number of Jewish citizens to be 18,190.

"In 1917, Colonel Zaki Bey, head of the Jerusalem Wheat Syndicate, reported to Jamal Pasha that Jerusalem had 31,147 Jews in an overall population of 53,410. These figures were based on birth certificates and police records; their accuracy is proven by the first compre- hensive census in Jerusalem, made by the British in 1922. This census showed a general population of 62,000, including 34,300 Jews."

 

[montelatici]

The British census of 1922 trumps all the propaganda you posted, without any links. Remember, I post the link to the source documentation, you just make things up or post Hasbara propaganda. There were less than a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850, not a handful as the British contended.

 

[Roudy]

So you're saying the British who had barely taken over a collapsed empire that was in turmoil in 1922, had a better grip on the details of the number of schools, hospitals, homes, and tax payers by ethnicity and profession, than the Ottomans who ruled the land for centuries, collecting taxes and keeping track of everything down to minute details?

Ha ha ha.

FAIL!

 

[Roudy]

Handful my ass! It's the details that always get you Internet jihadis:

http://badil.org/phocadownload/Badil_docs/publications/Jerusalem1948-CHAP1.PDF

A publication on education in greater Syria from 1882 showed that there were a total of 3,854 students in school in Jerusalem (2,768 boys and 1,086 girls) and 235 teachers.28 The number of girls in Christian schools (Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, Latin, Greek Catholic, and Armenian) were slightly more than the number of boys (926 girls to 861 boys). While the majority of these students were Christians, four of the Evangelical schools (two for boys and two for girls) totaling 138 students exclusively taught Jews. In addition, there were 1,707 students in Jewish schools, 160 of which were girls. In the eight Muslim schools, all of which were for boys, there were 360 students. In 1891, “the Government opened a general [secondary] school (Rushdiya) [sic] in our city, where all the children of the city, regardless of their religion, could attend classes in Arabic, Turkish, French, and the basic sciences.” It was also recorded that a Muslim school for girls had been established.

Status of buildings in Jerusalem

In 1900, total number of new homeowners amounts to 111. Of these, 56 are Jews, 27 Christians and 27 Muslims; and [one must also count] the municipality, which has put up a building with the revenue collected from all the city’s residents.

 

[montelatici]

You just posted Hasbara propaganda, nothing Ottoman about it. I have the Ottoman census data. There were about 8,000 Jews in Palestine according to the Ottoman census period 1844-1856. 3,993 women and 4,117 men.

You are a joke posting Hasbara propaganda thinking it convinces anyone that hasn't been brainwashed. Grow up.

By the way, what does your propaganda about Jews in 1900 have to do to the handful of Jews prior to 1850?

 

[Roudy]

Those are actual numbers according to Ottoman and Arab sources, that counter your failed Jihadi propaganda.

"Handful" ha ha ha ha ha. Ya gotta love it.

Look at the Bibliography of the paper. All legit historians, researchers, and Ottoman and Arab sources.

Joke's on you.

 

[montelatici]

Those are actual numbers according to Ottoman and Arab sources, that counter your failed Jihadi propaganda.

"Handful" ha ha ha ha ha. Ya gotta love it.

Look at the Bibliography of the paper. All legit historians, researchers, and Ottoman and Arab sources.

Joke's on you.

No, it is propaganda and has no basis in the Ottoman Census of the 1850 period when there were a handful of Jews in Palestine, as the British clearly stated.

As I said, about 8,000 Jews in 1850. LOL

Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893 on JSTOR

You are the joke, grasping at straws when I have all the source data. Give it up. LOL

 

[montelatici]

Ruddy in action: