The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Shusha]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Zionism, (The version referenced on these boards.) is not a religion but a political philosophy.

Zionism is the liberation movement of the people indigenous to the homeland in question.

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ theliq, Shusha, et al,

You have to be very careful when you talk about "Zionism." That is especially true if you are not Jewish. There are many a widely held → but false beliefs about Zionism, just as there is a misrepresentation of the truth. These are not false beliefs and misrepresented many facts passed-on without a malicious intent. They are what some believe to be true.

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a people and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,let us be totally honest by the end of the 1800.s it was the Christians who persecuted the Jews most of all...but these Noble sentiments were taken over by a Hard Right Wing Elements of the of the Zionist Organization(let us remember when the first delegation of Zionists went to Palestine they clearly stated "The Bride (Palestine) is Beautiful BUT Married to another(The Palestinians)

Shusha I have a meeting,I will respond to you asap..remind me if you have to...Best Regards steven

(COMMENT)

Not all Jews are Zionist. But all Zionist are Jews. There is a distinction here that is important.

Zionism is the national political movement of and for the Jewish people. Some of the embedded ideas that drive Zionism are:

· The right to self-determination.
· The legitimate home of the Jewish people.
· The Jewish people have the right to realize their territorial integrity without having to constantly defend against those that have the opposite belief.
· The Jewish people, have a right to determine their own destiny; - as a free people.​

To be a believer in the religion - Judaism - is a faith-based concept concerning the relationship between a people and the Supreme Being (a deity). They have their own religious customs. But basically, Jewdaism in Religous.

What is the connection between Jews and Zionist? Having said the Judaism is a religion, for nearly 2000 years, the people who believe in the religion are preyed upon by unscrupulous persons of power. Thus the tie-in to Zionism. Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven, a place that they will not be the subject of persecution → generally for wealth and power. Zionism offers the Jew the possibility of a place that they can preserve their culture and practice their religion while not being discriminated against because of their faith.

I should stop here before I draw too much fire. I probably said too much already.

Most Respectfully,
R

Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven,

By kicking out the natives and pigging the place for themselves.

When Arabs become natives of Israel by simply being there for a few centuries, following their indigenous Arab culture and language all the way from Arabia.......


We shall let you know



(And how perfect of you to call Jews pigs when they do not even eat pork )

 

[Asclepias]

This thread is being set up to prevent our second most common thread derailment (after the Mandate) - please discuss the ancient history of the peoples in the Palestine area here.

If speaking ancient history its the Canaanites and Cushites.

 

[rylah]

The initial roots of modern Zionism are in Morocco and Syria-Palestine.

Rabbi Haim ben-Attar urged Jews about upcoming persecutions, and obliged every Jewish community to move to Israel immediately with the first signs of unrest. Which he later did himself, taking a long journey to Israel through N.Africa and Europe in order to alarm people and invite them to join.

Later his descendant Rabbi Bivas, whose family was forced to flee the persecutions in Morocco met Rabbi Elkalai , which influenced the later of the urge and possibility to become an independent nation and defend against the waves of Arab and Europe pogroms. This inspired him to write a set and detailed platform for Jewish return and independence long before the 1st Zionist congress as described in Rabbi Elkalai's works.

Simon Loeb Herzl who used to be an administrator in Rabbi Elkalai's synagogue, had a grandson by the name Theodor.

 

[Sixties Fan]

But all this cannot be done without screaming in the ears of the world -- especially during Hanukkah -- a single basic truth, as Simon the Hasmonean put it some 2,200 years ago: "We have not taken foreign territory or any alien property, but have occupied our ancestral heritage, for some time unjustly wrested from us by our enemies; now that we have a favorable opportunity, we are merely recovering our ancestral heritage" (Maccabees 1, 15:33-34).

---
What Simon the Hasmonean understood more than 2,000 years ago, and what our sage Rashi understood in his interpretation of the first verse in Genesis some 1,000 years ago, followed by Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion and later Prime Minister Menachem Begin, and certainly Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, is that we exist here by way of force and of diplomacy, but, above all, we exist here by right.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/we-are-not-occupiers-in-our-own-land/

 

[watchingfromafar]

The facts are the facts that cannot be denied---

God talked directly to the Jews. God chose them to be His example on earth. God then gave then instructions on how they should behave in His name.

STRANGER—The term “stranger” is mentioned 123 times in the Holy Bible

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Jer 14:8 KJV) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?

(Ezek 14:7 KJV) For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Num 35:15 KJV) These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

But what God asked them to do they did not and instead we find this -----

(Mat 25:38 KJV) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

(Mat 25:43 KJV) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

(Ezek 22:29 KJV) The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

The sad truth is they felt that they were above God and did not have to obey His instructions and so the Israeli's were the “first” to throw bombs into buses, assassinate political leaders and IDF snipers shooting school children.

They have failed to follow His teaching and instead have embraced the Devil himself instead.

Sad, Oh so sad, but true,.,.,.,. as history has proven over and over

Still, they could repent
ask the Lord for forgiveness
&
if they do
He will forgive them
-​

 

[Sixties Fan]

The facts are the facts that cannot be denied---

God talked directly to the Jews. God chose them to be His example on earth. God then gave then instructions on how they should behave in His name.

STRANGER—The term “stranger” is mentioned 123 times in the Holy Bible

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Jer 14:8 KJV) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?

(Ezek 14:7 KJV) For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Num 35:15 KJV) These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

But what God asked them to do they did not and instead we find this -----

(Mat 25:38 KJV) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

(Mat 25:43 KJV) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

(Ezek 22:29 KJV) The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

The sad truth is they felt that they were above God and did not have to obey His instructions and so the Israeli's were the “first” to throw bombs into buses, assassinate political leaders and IDF snipers shooting school children.

They have failed to follow His teaching and instead have embraced the Devil himself instead.

Sad, Oh so sad, but true,.,.,.,. as history has proven over and over

Still, they could repent
ask the Lord for forgiveness
&
if they do
He will forgive them
-​

The facts are the facts that cannot be denied---

God talked directly to the Jews. God chose them to be His example on earth. God then gave then instructions on how they should behave in His name.

STRANGER—The term “stranger” is mentioned 123 times in the Holy Bible

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Jer 14:8 KJV) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?

(Ezek 14:7 KJV) For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Num 35:15 KJV) These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

But what God asked them to do they did not and instead we find this -----

(Mat 25:38 KJV) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

(Mat 25:43 KJV) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

(Ezek 22:29 KJV) The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

The sad truth is they felt that they were above God and did not have to obey His instructions and so the Israeli's were the “first” to throw bombs into buses, assassinate political leaders and IDF snipers shooting school children.

They have failed to follow His teaching and instead have embraced the Devil himself instead.

Sad, Oh so sad, but true,.,.,.,. as history has proven over and over

Still, they could repent
ask the Lord for forgiveness
&
if they do
He will forgive them
-​

All of your "truths" belong in the Religion Community, and other threads in this community but not here.

Enjoy your visits over there.

 

[watchingfromafar]

All of your "truths" belong in the Religion Community, and other threads in this community but not here.

The thread title is--
The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

It's spelled indigenous, not "indiginous". Having said that, the population of Palestine is relevant to your thread and the biblical context as well.

Enjoy your visits over there.

Gladly; bye -

 

[Indeependent]

The facts are the facts that cannot be denied---

God talked directly to the Jews. God chose them to be His example on earth. God then gave then instructions on how they should behave in His name.

STRANGER—The term “stranger” is mentioned 123 times in the Holy Bible

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Jer 14:8 KJV) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?

(Ezek 14:7 KJV) For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Ezek 22:7 KJV) In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Num 35:15 KJV) These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

But what God asked them to do they did not and instead we find this -----

(Mat 25:38 KJV) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

(Mat 25:43 KJV) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

(Ezek 22:29 KJV) The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

The sad truth is they felt that they were above God and did not have to obey His instructions and so the Israeli's were the “first” to throw bombs into buses, assassinate political leaders and IDF snipers shooting school children.

They have failed to follow His teaching and instead have embraced the Devil himself instead.

Sad, Oh so sad, but true,.,.,.,. as history has proven over and over

Still, they could repent
ask the Lord for forgiveness
&
if they do
He will forgive them
-​

The word Gar does not mean "stranger", it means sojourner.
The Egyptians allowed the Jacob's family to sojourn in Egypt because Joseph saved Egypt from starvation.
A sojourner is a productive person who does not intend to live somewhere permanently.

You see, the family of Jacob didn't come to Egypt to wash dishes, mow lawns , babysit and suck off of Egypt and send the money back.home.

 

[watchingfromafar]

The Egyptians allowed the Jacob's family to sojourn in Egypt because Joseph saved Egypt from starvation.
A sojourner is a productive person who does not intend to live somewhere permanently.

You see, the family of Jacob didn't come to Egypt to wash dishes, mow lawns , babysit and suck off of Egypt and send the money back.home.

You are wrong on so many counts but lets stick with the biblical truth. The Jews were shepherds who were starving in Cannon because of a great drought.

Let the verses speak the truth----------

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph (a Jew), Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

(Gen 41:40 KJV) Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

(Gen 41:42 KJV) And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;

(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh King of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelite's who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

-

 

[watchingfromafar]

The word Gar does not mean "stranger", it means sojourner.

You should write your own version of Biblical text since you are obviously more knowledgeable on this than us pagans are.

just a suggestion
-

 

[watchingfromafar]

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph (a Jew), Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

BTW: It is possible that Joseph is buried in one of the pyramids.

 

[Indeependent]

The Egyptians allowed the Jacob's family to sojourn in Egypt because Joseph saved Egypt from starvation.
A sojourner is a productive person who does not intend to live somewhere permanently.

You see, the family of Jacob didn't come to Egypt to wash dishes, mow lawns , babysit and suck off of Egypt and send the money back.home.

You are wrong on so many counts but lets stick with the biblical truth. The Jews were shepherds who were starving in Cannon because of a great drought.

Let the verses speak the truth----------

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph (a Jew), Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

(Gen 41:40 KJV) Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

(Gen 41:42 KJV) And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;

(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh King of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelite's who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

See above, they abandon the land of Canaan and move to Egypt

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

-

I don't get your point.
Joseph is made the second in command of Egypt which means he has no personal life until he passes away; and working in the royal court wasn't exactly pleasant.
Pharoah assumes that Joseph's family member are as smart as Joseph.
Jacob's family is accepted simply because Joseph saved Egypt, not because Jacob's family came to pick fruit.
Do you think Joseph would have been taken out of the prison and welcomed as an Egyptian Immigrant to pick fruit if he couldn't interpret the dreams?
What world are you living in?

 

[Indeependent]

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph (a Jew), Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

BTW: It is possible that Joseph is buried in one of the pyramids.

Joseph's body was taken out of Egypt by Moses.

 

[Sixties Fan]

(Gen 41:39 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph (a Jew), Forasmuch as God hath showed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

BTW: It is possible that Joseph is buried in one of the pyramids.

Joseph's body was taken out of Egypt by Moses.

Oh, I see

That is why this place is called "Joseph's Tomb".....

Shechem (Nablus): Joseph's Tomb

 

[Shusha]

You should write your own version of Biblical text since you are obviously more knowledgeable ...

You mean like the original Hebrew version of the text? Here's another idea: if you can't read it in the original language, you aren't able to actually read it.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Shusha, et al,

Yeah, You're right.

You should write your own version of Biblical text since you are obviously more knowledgeable ...

You mean like the original Hebrew version of the text? Here's another idea: if you can't read it in the original language, you aren't able to actually read it.

(COMMENT)

I have a copy of "The NotoryArt of Solomon" (Ars Notoria), but it is really a (First Published) 1657 translation by Robert Turner.

The praises and prayers contained within it seem very authentic. But it is still a translation; the magic is gone...

The Notory Art revealed by the Most High Creator to Solomon.
In the Name of the Holy and undivided Trinity, beginneth this most Holy Art of
Knowledge, revealed to Solomon, which the Most High Creator by his Holy Angels
ministered to Solomon upon the Alter of the Temple; that thereby in short time he
knew all Arts and Sciences, both Liberal and Mechanick, with all the Faculties and
Properties thereof: He has suddenly infused into him, and also was filled with all
wisdom, to utter the Sacred Mysteries of most Holy words.​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

Who are the Palestinians? An Arab Invention

 

[Sixties Fan]

“Before the Balfour Promise, when the Ottoman rule [1517-1917] ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today”, historian Abd Al-Ghani admitted on official PA TV on November 1.

“Since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity.”

In 1917, says this Arab historian on official PA TV, there was no such thing as a Palestinian people. This statement amounts to saying that the whole narrative of an ‘indigenous Palestinian people’ was made up at a later point in time.

As Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad speaking on Al-Hekma TV said in March 2012: “Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis. Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians…”

There is a reason, why the “Palestinian National Museum” is empty of historical artifacts.

The Arab historian’s admission corroborates the observations of 19th century travelers to the region, who notably had no specific political agenda when they visited, unlike so many visitors to Israel today:

”Outside the gates of Jerusalem, we saw indeed no living object, heard no living sound”, wrote French poet Alphonse de Lamartine about his visit in 1835.

”The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.” wrote British Consul James Finn in his 1857 description of the Holy Land.

”Palestine sits in a sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that withered its fields and fettered its energies. …Palestine is desolate and unlovely….It is a hopeless dreary, heartbroken land.” wrote American author Mark Twain in his description of his visit in 1867.

Nevertheless, the Arab propaganda machine gets away with publishingfantastic falsehoods, such as this one on the Palestinian Authority’s tourism website: “With a history that envelops more than one million years, Palestine has played an important role in human civilization. The crucible of prehistoric cultures, it is where settled society, the alphabet, religion, and literature developed, and would become a meeting place for diverse cultures and ideas that shaped the world we know today”.

(full article online)

Arab Historian Admits there is No Palestinian People

 

[watchingfromafar]

Nevertheless, the Arab propaganda machine gets away with publishingfantastic falsehoods, such as this one on the Palestinian Authority’s tourism website:

Is this where the following came from too-?

FIRST ACTS OF TERRORISM, COINING THE PHRASE

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem,.,.,killing or injuring more than 200 persons.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children.

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the Israeli art students were, in fact, part of a major Israeli intelligence operation and that they were conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers. They also worked with the Israeli Urban Moving System employees in New Jersey who were seen in at least two Jersey City locations -- Liberty State Park and The Doric apartment building -- celebrating the impact of the first plane into the World Trade Center.


The Israelis at Liberty State Park were dressed in Arab-style clothing when they were witnessed celebrating the first attack. The FBI later confiscated a videotape they filmed of the first attack.

Israeli art students who shadowed 9-11 hijackers were part of a major Mossad intelligence operation - Looking Glass News

Google Irgun, Haganah and Stern gangs and you will get 144,000 hits

BTW: The Haganah gang later became the Israeli Defense Force (IDF)