The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[RetiredGySgt]

The victors write the history books. It's easy to find evidence that the Japanese were so desperate for reasonable surrender terms that they went to Stalin. "Give 'em Hell Harry" refused to even send an envoy. The hangup in the FDR doctrine of "unconditional surrender" was the Japanese Emperor. The Japanese holdouts wanted to keep the Emperor from being executed but Truman refused to consider it. Ironically the Emperor's life was spared after Truman authorized the incineration of a million Japanese civilians. God help us but the only nuclear attack in history is on the soul of America.

That first sentence with those six words you sole could not be more true about how the victors always get to rewrite history,excellent post on everything you said.

Simply NOT true. The Japanese were offering to Stalin an alliance against the US if they the Soviets would convince the allies to let Japan get a ceasefire and no consequences for the war. I have linked repeatedly to the facts and people conveniently ignore them. You are either IGNORANT or liars.

This coming from one of the biggest coward lying trolls I know At USMB From Langley who worships EVERYTHING the government tells him ignoring what credible witnesses say that we’re there that contradicts the bs lies of the governments lol but according to your warped fucked up logic you always sprout out,the witnesses there to the past events of government corruption are all lying and our corrupt governments version of events that you worship as gospel truth NEVER lie to us. LOL. Yeah you posted some Government link from Langley your bosses instructed you to do lying troll.lol

Go tell your bs lies like you like to,lie to people all the time about everyday to someone elseou might fool them,you can’t fool me though nor do I ever bother with your bullshit anymore the way you cowardly evade evidence and witness testimony that contradicts the governments version like the coward troll you are never addressing it and pretending experts and witness testimony does not count coward.

You are too idiotic to understand I stopped bothering with feeding you troll Ages ago.

Go ahead retard link to any attempt by Japanese Government to surrender. One will do. Just one. Remember the Government was the Big 6.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NOT ONE of the people claiming Japan tried to surrender has EVER linked to ANY communique or statement from the Big 6 EVER. NOT ONE SINGLE LINK, what they do is link to all the attempts by supernumerary's that had no standing with the Government that made offers. These offers are worthless on their face as the US stated by not addressing them. ONLY the big 6 and the Emperor determined what Japan would do. Not some marginalized Ambassador in Europe that was told to shut up by the Government, Not any business man with absolutely no connection to the Big 6 or the Emperor. Not some low level Government Official with no official link to the Big 6 or the Emperor.

What the Big 6 said after the atomic bombs was WE WILL NOT SURRENDER, now assuming all these supposed offers BEFORE the bombs why would they refuse after? The Big 6 were over ridden by the Emperor after the 2nd Bomb and when he tried to surrender the Army staged a COUP to stop him, they failed. Again one has to ask if the Japanese Government was so hot to surrender why did it take 2 bombs and surviving a Coup attempt for the Emperor to do it?

I have linked to official documents from the US and Japan, I have linked to historians that researched the claims I have even linked to a Japanese Historian that survived the Tokyo Firebombs and he said Japan never attempted to surrender. What Japan did is try and make a deal with the Soviets to ally with them against the US IF the Soviets would convince the allies to accept a CEASEFIRE return to 41 start lines and NO CONCESSIONS in China.

 

[Unkotare]

75 years as of now...


As human beings, we need to take stock...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You need to actually link to any offer by the JAPANESE Government to surrender.

 

[Mushroom]

fdr knew conflict was coming and he did nothing to prepare (or deliberately made sure nothing was done).

In the weeks prior to the attack, we had added over a division in forces to the Philippines. The most recent was the 4th Marine Regiment, which arrived just over a week before the attack.

We were still in the process of moving an entire Bomber group to the Philippines, and ha almost doubled the number of fighters. And more bombers were going there almost as soon as they arrived at Pearl and could be fitted with equipment.

The USS Enterprise was enroute back to Hawaii after delivering a load of WIldcats to Wake. It was expected that after a few days in Pearl it would steam to the Philippines to deliver more WIldcats there.

The USS Lexington was enroute to Midway with a load of Vindicator bombers. It's next run was to be to Guam.

The USS Saratoga had completed sea trials after a major refit that morning. After resupply in San Diego it was to deliver a full deck load of Marine Fighters to Hawaii, for shipment to other islands.

You know, in wake of this massive effort to add more aircraft to every island base we had (and infantry to the Philippines), your claim that nothing was done is proven to be a lie. Our carriers has been working for over a month, doing nothing but ferry runs. Racing back and forth from Hawaii to those islands and delivering fighters as fast as they could.

Oh, and everybody should know the story of the 6 B-17 bombers that arrived over Hawaii during the attack. They were flying "light" from California, the paint barely being dry on them before taking off. Once in Hawaii they were to have their weapons mounted, then they were to fly to the Philippines.

Holy crap, looks like a hell of a lot was being done to prepare. Especially in the Philippines. A Coast Artillery regiment, 2 Tank battalions, a 75mm self propelled howitzer regiment, they had all arrived in the month before the attack.

And enroute already was the 34th Infantry Regiment, 26th Field Artillery Brigade, and 6 other Artillery units, ranging from Battalion to Regimental size. 52 A-24 bombers. 18 P-40 fighters, and the entire 7th Bombardment Group (that is who those B-17s belonged to). And over 1 million tons of supplies and material, waiting for cargo ships to take it there.

Holy crap, that was going to well over double the size and capabilities of the US forces, and was increasing their air power by almost 4 times. Yet, nothing was done.

OK, Jon Snow.

 

[Mushroom]

Bull crap. A week before Pearl Harbor a story was published on the front page of the New York Herald Tribune quoting Tojo warning that war was coming in no uncertain terms.

And we were already frantically reinforcing the Philippines, Wake, Guam, and Midway. Had been for well over a month already.

So what exactly is your point here?

 

[Regent23]

I see some people are doing everything but addressing the point that three days was far too soon to be dropping another atomic bomb on Japan, not to mention the fact that the bomb should not have been dropped on a civilian target, a target that happened to have had the largest Christian population of any Japanese city.

It would have been better if we nuked those heathen Buddhists?

Again, at the time, it was seen as "just another weapon". 70 million people had died on all sides at that point.

You don't kill another batch of tens of thousands of civilians of an enemy who you know wants to surrender and who is virtually defenseless and starving. That is just basic human decency, and it is sad that you can't grasp that.

The rest of your post is a lot of apologetic nonsense.

No, it is not. It is a presentation of fact.

Anti-Japanese sentiment in China - Wikipedia

According to a 2017 BBC World Service Poll, mainland Chinese people hold the largest anti-Japanese sentiment in the world, with 75% of Chinese people viewing Japan's influence negatively, and 22% expressing a positive view. Anti-Japanese sentiment in China was at its highest in 2014 since the poll was first conducted in 2006 and was up 16 percent over the previous year

Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea - Wikipedia

The origins of anti-Japanese attitudes in Korea can be traced back to the effects of Japanese pirate raids and later to the 1592−98 Japanese invasions of Korea. Sentiments in contemporary society are largely attributed to the Japanese rule in Korea from 1910–45. According to a BBC World Service Poll conducted in 2013, 67% of South Koreans view Japan's influence negatively, and 21% express a positive view, making South Korea, behind mainland China, the country with the second most negative feelings of Japan in the world.[1]

sorry these folks don't sound particularly grateful...

Well, yeah, given the fact that the Chinese Communists have long been brainwashing the Chinese people with anti-Japanese propaganda, I'm not a bit surprised by those numbers.

South Korea's anti-Japanese propaganda has not been as bad or as pervasive as China's, which perhaps explains the difference in the survey numbers. Another fact to keep in mind is that after WW II, millions of Koreans emigrated to the United States. So any poll done in South Korea is not going to include those Koreans who moved to America, nor will it include the children of those Koreans who moved to America.

Again, read Hildi Kang's book Under the Black Umbrella: Voices from Colonial Korea, 1910–1945. Kang interviewed numerous Koreans who lived under Japanese rule in Korea. She expresses surprise that most of them never experienced cruelty. At one point, she asks, "Where are all the atrocities?" It is an eye-opening book.

Joe has never been able to grasp any of that of course,he just likes to cling to the governments revisionist history No mater how much they have been caught lying.lol

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The victors write the history books. It's easy to find evidence that the Japanese were so desperate for reasonable surrender terms that they went to Stalin. "Give 'em Hell Harry" refused to even send an envoy. The hangup in the FDR doctrine of "unconditional surrender" was the Japanese Emperor. The Japanese holdouts wanted to keep the Emperor from being executed but Truman refused to consider it. Ironically the Emperor's life was spared after Truman authorized the incineration of a million Japanese civilians. God help us but the only nuclear attack in history is on the soul of America.

That first sentence with those six words you sole could not be more true about how the victors always get to rewrite history,excellent post on everything you said.

Simply NOT true. The Japanese were offering to Stalin an alliance against the US if they the Soviets would convince the allies to let Japan get a ceasefire and no consequences for the war. I have linked repeatedly to the facts and people conveniently ignore them. You are either IGNORANT or liars.

This coming from one of the biggest coward lying trolls I know At USMB From Langley who worships EVERYTHING the government tells him ignoring what credible witnesses say that we’re there that contradicts the bs lies of the governments lol but according to your warped fucked up logic you always sprout out,the witnesses there to the past events of government corruption are all lying and our corrupt governments version of events that you worship as gospel truth NEVER lie to us. LOL. Yeah you posted some Government link from Langley your bosses instructed you to do lying troll.lol

Go tell your bs lies like you like to,lie to people all the time about everyday to someone elseou might fool them,you can’t fool me though nor do I ever bother with your bullshit anymore the way you cowardly evade evidence and witness testimony that contradicts the governments version like the coward troll you are never addressing it and pretending experts and witness testimony does not count coward.

You are too idiotic to understand I stopped bothering with feeding you troll Ages ago.

Go ahead retard link to any attempt by Japanese Government to surrender. One will do. Just one. Remember the Government was the Big 6.

You are in no position to call anybody a retard retired moron the fact you won’t get off the drugs your on always defending the lies of the government that fires brought down the towers Always ignoring the evidence that explosives did,ignoring bld 7 the crux of the coverup,ignoring architects and engineers,and even demolition experts or witnesses that heard explosions and when they publicly mentioned it,they started dying off,oh but all those people are ALL wrong and lying and YOU are right,they are all wrong according to your arrogant fucked up mind.lay off the crackcomedy gold,hee heeand grow up and stop being juvenile for once in your sad life shill

Oh and have fun talking to yourself,normally I never waste my time with you troll but I had to prove to the whole board what a lying government troll you are who thinks eveybody else is wrong including people that witnessed historical events,and you are right,you’ll never grow up obviously.

Again,enjoy talking to yourself,I should not have fed the troll as I just did.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

sure--FDR wanted the Japanese to attack the US

Uh, yes, FDR absolutely wanted the Japanese to attack us. He wanted to provoke them to fire the first shot so that he would have an excuse to get us into WW II. Harry Stimson's diary confirms this. We also know this from the McCollum Memo. We also have hard evidence that FDR knew the Japanese were considering attacking Pearl Harbor in the event of war, and that he and others in high places knew a Japanese fleet was heading toward Pearl Harbor in late November (but they carefully avoided warning the commanders in Hawaii about any of this information).

FDR believed that the Japanese would do little damage in attacking Pearl Harbor. FDR, like many other Americans, believed the Japanese were inferior, that they were lousy soldiers, that they were lousy pilots, and that they would be a pushover in any armed conflict. FDR believed that any Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor or the Philippines would do minimal damage.

You nailed it an. Did an excellent job taking everyone to school.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

that's one of the most insane/idiotic posts I've ever read

And yours is one of the most laughably uninformed, head-in-the-sand posts I've read. Have you heard of Stimson's diary, where he talks about FDR saying that we needed to maneuver Japan into firing the first shot? Have you heard of the McCollum Memo, which laid out a strategy for provoking Japan to war, and that even said that if the steps could provoke Japan to war it would be "all the better"? Have you heard of the declassified FBI Hoover-Ladd memos, where we learn that Army Intelligence knew "almost the entire plans" for the attack on Pearl Harbor days before the attack? Have you heard of Admiral Raneft's diary, where he talks about U.S. Navy Intelligence advising him that there was a Japanese fleet a few hundred miles from Pearl Harbor? Have you heard of the intercepted phone conversation between FDR and Churchill, where Churchill warned FDR that British Intelligence had intercepted Japanese naval messages that indicated Pearl Harbor would be attacked? (This fact was confirmed by former CIA Director William Casey in his memoir, by the way.) Have you heard of any of these things?

Here are some books you might wanna read:

James Johns, Reassessing Pearl Harbor: Scapegoats, a False Hero and the Myth of Surprise Attack

Dr. George Victor, The Pearl Harbor Myth: Rethinking the Unthinkable

Dr. Timothy Wilford, Pearl Harbor Redefined: USN Radio Intelligence in 1941

Here are some online sources you might wanna break down and read:

Evidence of Foreknowledge: The Attack Was No Surprise to FDR

Obviously he has not,great stuff thanks for posting it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

James Byrnes and the Atomic Bombing of Japan

MacArthur vs. Truman: The Showdown That Changed America

Truman’s decision not only ended MacArthur’s military career, it ended the president’s political career as well, setting the stage for the subsequent presidency of Dwight Eisenhower. In the first 24 hours after the president’s announcement, the White House received more than 5,000 telegrams—three-quarters of them backing the popular MacArthur, who had been named the greatest living American in a 1946 poll. “In the wake of the firing, Truman’s popular approval rating set a record not matched before or ever since—22 percent—lower even than Nixon’s at the depth of the Watergate scandal,” Brands says. After what the historian calls “political suicide,” Truman did not even pursue his party’s nomination in 1952.

~S~

Excellent piece there sparky thanks for sharing that with us.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Anyone who does any serious, balanced reading on the Pacific War will learn the following facts:

* Most of Japan's leaders, military and civilian, did not want war with the U.S.

* Japan's leaders offered very reasonable concessions to try to get FDR to lift his draconian sanctions, which were crippling Japan's economy.

* The majority of Japan's leaders opposed the hardliners in the Army, but the hardliners were a powerful faction in the government that was sometimes beyond the immediate control of the government.

* Even some of the hardliners did not want war with the U.S. They, like many others in the government, wanted to invade Russia or to focus on French Indochina and the Dutch East Indies.

* At every turn, FDR aided the hardliners and impeded the moderates in the year leading up to Pearl Harbor.

* Similarly, at every turn, Truman aided the hardliners and impeded the moderates in the months leading up to Hiroshima.

* The Soviets were thrilled when the U.S. and Japan went to war. When Stalin was assured that Japan would not attack Russia, he was able to move hundreds of thousands of troops from his eastern front just in time to halt the German advance on his western front.

* The Soviets did not want Japan to surrender to the U.S. until Soviet forces were able to attack the Japanese army in Manchuria.

* Whether because of incompetence, and/or anti-Japanese bias, and/or the influence of the numerous Soviet spies and sympathizers in their administrations, FDR and Truman carried out Soviet aims in Japanese-American relations in the months leading up to Pearl Harbor and in the months leading up to Hiroshima.

* The Soviets were able to gather sufficient forces and equipment to invade Japan's northern and central Kuril Islands, in addition to invading Manchuria, thanks to Truman's stalling on the Japanese surrender. If the Soviets had not met such fierce resistance in their assaults on the Kuriles, such as at the Battle of Shumshu, they might have followed through with their plans to invade Hokkaido, one of Japan's four main home islands. According to some sources, the Soviets were about to carry out their planned invasion of Hokkaido when Truman suddenly awoke from his stupor and realized what a blunder it had been to stall the Japanese surrender so the Soviets could join the war against Japan. Eisenhower had warned Truman against involving the Soviets, and, supposedly, Truman warned the Soviets not to land on Hokkaido. That's one version. Another version is that the heavy losses the Soviets incurred at Shumshu persuaded them to focus on the Kuril Islands and to abandon their plans to invade Hokkaido. It might have been a combination of both.

* Truman and his inner circle knew from Japanese intercepts that Japan's civilian leaders, including the emperor, wanted to surrender, and that the only real sticking point was the emperor's status in a surrender. Numerous military and civilian officials told Truman that if he would just assure the Japanese that the emperor would not be deposed, they would surrender on acceptable terms.

* Japanese rule in Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria, though not up to Western standards, was certainly better than Soviet rule, Chinese Communist rule, and Nazi rule. Anyone with adequate knowledge on this subject who had to choose to live in one of the above areas would choose to live under Japanese rule in a heartbeat, hands down.

Great stuff again in taking everyone to school here,thanks for posting it

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Ya and all you have are opinion pieces while I have ACTUAL Government documents.

But not from ACTUAL top military>>>

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

&&&

The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.

&&&
Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”




&&&

Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan…”


&&&


Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

&&&


Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.



~S~

Well done sparky.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Again yu have never presented a single official document EVER.

First off, he has presented you with documented statements by senior American military leaders that using the atomic bomb was unnecessary and wrong.

Second, **so what** if you have "official government documents"??? Government documents are often inaccurate and incomplete, and sometimes they're misleading and even fraudulent.

Anyway, I see a big part of the problem is that you and others are projecting the actions of part of the Japanese army onto most/all Japanese in that period. The vast majority of Japan's civilian leaders were good and decent men. They were aghast and ashamed when war-crimes tribunals revealed the atrocities committed by some Japanese forces.

Similarly, many senior Japanese military officers were good and decent men who did what they could to halt and punish war crimes when they learned of them. General Homma, for example, was very pro-American and exerted great efforts to ensure that Japanese rule in the Philippines was moderate and tolerant, but he was eventually overruled by hardliners above him. And General Homma was horrified when he heard the accounts of Japanese cruelty during the Bataan Death March at his trial. Given the structure of Japanese army command and operations, it is not at all surprising that he was unaware of the incidents of cruelty when they occurred. His HQ was hundreds of yards from any point of the march, and for long stretches of the march there were no acts of cruelty--in fact, at some halt points, Japanese soldiers gave the prisoners food and water and let them rest briefly.

Finally, it bears repeating that not all Japanese officers and soldiers committed war crimes. Many did not. The diaries of American and Allied soldiers in the Pacific contain numerous accounts of kindness and decency shown to them by Japanese soldiers. See, for example, Richard Aldrich's award-winning book The Far Away War: Personal Diaries of the Second World War in Asia and the Pacific.

Well done excellent stuff from you as always mike.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The victors write the history books. It's easy to find evidence that the Japanese were so desperate for reasonable surrender terms that they went to Stalin. "Give 'em Hell Harry" refused to even send an envoy. The hangup in the FDR doctrine of "unconditional surrender" was the Japanese Emperor. The Japanese holdouts wanted to keep the Emperor from being executed but Truman refused to consider it. Ironically the Emperor's life was spared after Truman authorized the incineration of a million Japanese civilians. God help us but the only nuclear attack in history is on the soul of America.

That first sentence with those six words you sole could not be more true about how the victors always get to rewrite history,excellent post on everything you said.

Simply NOT true. The Japanese were offering to Stalin an alliance against the US if they the Soviets would convince the allies to let Japan get a ceasefire and no consequences for the war. I have linked repeatedly to the facts and people conveniently ignore them. You are either IGNORANT or liars.

This coming from one of the biggest coward lying trolls I know At USMB From Langley who worships EVERYTHING the government tells him ignoring what credible witnesses say that we’re there that contradicts the bs lies of the governments lol but according to your warped fucked up logic you always sprout out,the witnesses there to the past events of government corruption are all lying and our corrupt governments version of events that you worship as gospel truth NEVER lie to us. LOL. Yeah you posted some Government link from Langley your bosses instructed you to do lying troll.lol

Go tell your bs lies like you like to,lie to people all the time about everyday to someone elseou might fool them,you can’t fool me though nor do I ever bother with your bullshit anymore the way you cowardly evade evidence and witness testimony that contradicts the governments version like the coward troll you are never addressing it and pretending experts and witness testimony does not count coward.

You are too idiotic to understand I stopped bothering with feeding you troll Ages ago.

Go ahead retard link to any attempt by Japanese Government to surrender. One will do. Just one. Remember the Government was the Big 6.

You are in no position to call anybody a retard retired moron the fact you won’t get off the drugs your on always defending the lies of the government that fires brought down the towers Always ignoring the evidence that explosives did,ignoring bld 7 the crux of the coverup,ignoring architects and engineers,and even demolition experts or witnesses that heard explosions and when they publicly mentioned it,they started dying off,oh but all those people are ALL wrong and lying and YOU are right,they are all wrong according to your arrogant fucked up mind.lay off the crackcomedy gold,hee heeand grow up and stop being juvenile for once in your sad life shill

Oh and have fun talking to yourself,normally I never waste my time with you troll but I had to prove to the whole board what a lying government troll you are who thinks eveybody else is wrong including people that witnessed historical events,and you are right,you’ll never grow up obviously.

Again,enjoy talking to yourself,I should not have fed the troll as I just did.

So you ADMIT you can not link to any actual evidence thanks for that.

 

[candycorn]

NOT ONE of the people claiming Japan tried to surrender has EVER linked to ANY communique or statement from the Big 6 EVER. NOT ONE SINGLE LINK, what they do is link to all the attempts by supernumerary's that had no standing with the Government that made offers. These offers are worthless on their face as the US stated by not addressing them. ONLY the big 6 and the Emperor determined what Japan would do. Not some marginalized Ambassador in Europe that was told to shut up by the Government, Not any business man with absolutely no connection to the Big 6 or the Emperor. Not some low level Government Official with no official link to the Big 6 or the Emperor.

What the Big 6 said after the atomic bombs was WE WILL NOT SURRENDER, now assuming all these supposed offers BEFORE the bombs why would they refuse after? The Big 6 were over ridden by the Emperor after the 2nd Bomb and when he tried to surrender the Army staged a COUP to stop him, they failed. Again one has to ask if the Japanese Government was so hot to surrender why did it take 2 bombs and surviving a Coup attempt for the Emperor to do it?

I have linked to official documents from the US and Japan, I have linked to historians that researched the claims I have even linked to a Japanese Historian that survived the Tokyo Firebombs and he said Japan never attempted to surrender. What Japan did is try and make a deal with the Soviets to ally with them against the US IF the Soviets would convince the allies to accept a CEASEFIRE return to 41 start lines and NO CONCESSIONS in China.

They were still shooting at us.
They could have layed down their arms. They didn't. And they got nuked. Zero regret here.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

one can set one's watch on how fast threads do this here>>>>

~S~

That’s all the revisionist history trolls post here like the one I just got done talking to pst here indeed.lol

 

[LA RAM FAN]

How do you figure that? Internal Japanese records make it clear that it was the Soviet invasion that finally pushed the hardliners into agreeing to surrender. This has been documented in numerous studies.
.

Lets start with one study, it should be easy, quote and link to a study. I have never seen one, not that I have looked for one. So link to a study, quoted the study, with at least a page number, so that we can see exactly what you are talking about.

Simply stating, "study says so", does nobody any good, the least of all you.

I have posted a link to the actual decision by the Emperor the surrender was because of the 2 nukes and the Army tried to prevent it.

"I have posted a link to the actual decision by the Emperor the surrender was because of the 2 nukes and the Army tried to prevent it."

I am certain that had the 2 nukes been dropped on MILITARY INSTALLATIONS then the emperor would have been just as willing to surrender.

NOT cities full of old people

MILITARY INSTALLATIONS.

Yeah exactly.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Funny how no one cares about burning Japanese cities to the ground with incendiaries - but a nuke? OMFG!!!

Who said no one cares? Many people have condemned our conventional bombing of Japanese cities.

Professor Sean Malloy has written a book on Henry Stimson’s role in the decision to nuke Japan. Therein he examines Truman’s failure to follow the advice of so many of his advisers who were telling him that clarifying the emperor’s status might very well induce Japan to surrender without an invasion. Malloy also notes Truman’s failure to include the Soviets in the Potsdam Declaration, even though he knew they were going to enter the war no later than mid-August. This is from Professor Malloy’s book Atomic Tragedy: Henry L. Stimson and the Decision to Use the Bomb Against Japan (Cornell University Press, 2008):

The Potsdam Declaration issued on July 26, 1945, contained no guarantee or reassurance on the postwar status of the emperor. Nor was the Soviet Union invited to sign the document, despite the fact that Stalin had formally agreed to enter the war in mid-August and was eager to join in a public ultimatum to Japan. While the declaration did contain a partial clarification of what unconditional surrender would entail—denying that the Allies intended to exterminate the Japanese people or permanently occupy that country—it had been stripped of the two important incentives to surrender that Stimson and others had recommended earlier in the month. Without the immediate threat of Soviet entry or the atomic bomb and a clear statement on the postwar status of the emperor, the Potsdam Declaration was publicly dismissed by the Japanese government as representing nothing more than “a rehash of the Cairo Declaration.” As historian Tsuyoshi Hasegawa has observed, the decision to release the declaration in a public broadcast, rather than through formal or informal diplomatic channels, further encouraged the belief in Japan that it was intended primarily for propaganda purposes.​

Why Truman failed at Potsdam to make use of the full arsenal of diplomatic threats and incentives is a matter of some mystery. . . .​

The failure to offer any reassurance on the emperor is particularly troublesome. Nobody on the American side could guarantee that such reassurance would lead to a speedy Japanese surrender. Diplomatic cables intercepted and decrypted by the Americans in summer 1945 revealed that the Japanese government was badly divided on the issue of surrender terms. But amid this uncertainty, it was widely agreed by American military and diplomatic experts that failure to clarify the emperor’s postwar status would almost certainly delay surrender and prolong the war. According to a State Department analysis from mid-June, “every evidence, without exception, that we are able to obtain of the views of the Japanese with regard to the institution of the throne indicates that the non-molestation of the person of the present emperor and the preservation of the institution of the throne comprise irreducible Japanese terms.” It was this belief that had led Stimson to push for such a reassurance on the grounds that “the country will not be satisfied unless every effort is made to shorten the war.” Recognizing the “irreducible” importance of the emperor, Truman did eventually allow Hirohito to remain on the throne after two atomic bombs and Soviet entry into the war in early August. Why did he not follow Stimson’s advice and make such an offer at Potsdam? Even if it did not produce immediate capitulation, it would at the very least have presented a clear set of terms to Japanese leaders in late July rather than forcing them to guess or intuit the American position on this pivotal question. (pp. 128-129)​

Indeed, giving reassurance on the emperor’s post-war status would have also taken away from the Japanese hardliners their main argument against surrender and would have greatly strengthened the position of the moderates.

Japan’s militarists and their backers seek to minimize Japanese war crimes. America’s militarists and their backers seek to deny that nuking Japan was unnecessary and immoral.

It is beyond obvious that, at the bare minimum, Truman blundered horrendously by allowing Byrnes to remove from the Potsdam Declaration the most powerful military threat (Soviet entry into the war) and the most powerful diplomatic incentive for surrender (an assurance about the emperor’s post-war status). Whether he did this because he was unable to withstand his own hardliners’ pressure or because he wanted to nuke Japan to exact revenge and to show the Soviets the bomb’s power, the fact remains that he tragically failed to use two powerful diplomatic tools that provided an excellent chance of ending the war early and without an invasion.

Your an encycledia on this.lol

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Where do you get that idea?

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.…

US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”


Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan

Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…

Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”

~S~

As always he got taken to school by you as mike has taken him to school.