The Nanking Massacre and Iris Chang's Book The Rape of Nanking

[Unkotare]

 

[JoeB131]

So back on topic here.

Why did the Nationalists lose?

They shouldn't have. At the beginning of the Civil War, Chiang had 4 million troops compared to 1 million for Mao. While Chiang had the latest American Equipment, Mao was stuck with whatever the Kwantung Army abandoned in Manchuria.

But three years later, he had Chiang on the run.


Well, first, there was Nanking. Chiang ran away and left the people of his Capitol City to the tender mercies of the Japanese.

300,000 of them died.

He blew up the dams on the Yellow River and other places, destroying thousands of acres of farmland and causing thousands to starve or die of diseases. And he did it again during the Civil War.

He had a very callous attitude towards the lives of his men.

Men won't fight for a leader who doesn't have concern for his troops. Kind of the first thing they teach you in any Army leadership course.

Second, there was policy. While Chiang was intent on restoring the rights and privileges of the landlord class, Mao was doing so with crowd-pleasing land redistribution.

Then there was Chiang's economic mismanagement, increasing taxes to 60% and devaluing the currency. As earlier stated, corruption was rampant under Chiang. Business owners would have their businesses confiscated for "collaborating" with the Japanese, only to be forced to buy them back.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

And not to put too fine a point on it, how is...



Not childish name-calling?

My point is that he didn't flame you in the reply you quoted. If someone responds to you with insults when you didn't do that to them, my opinion is that they have zero credibility and their opinion doesn't count and isn't worth replying to.

 

[mikegriffith1]

And not to put too fine a point on it, how is...

Oh, boy! Look at this! Neo-Nazi/Mao Lover Jihad Joe

Not childish name-calling?

It is not name-calling. It is accurate. You are a neo-Nazi. You are a Mao lover. And you do endlessly repeat jihadist propaganda about Israel and the Jews, which mirrors neo-Nazi propaganda about Israel and the Jews. I am simply describing what you yourself have made clear you are.

Just to remind you, in recent weeks you've said that the Jews caused Hitler's animosity toward them by supposedly wrecking Germany after WWI (an ugly Nazi lie), that "Hitler wasn't the problem" but that the Jews were the problem (yes, folks, he actually said that), that Jewish bankers played a major role in Germany's collapse (another Nazi lie), that Jews never pass up a chance to make money, that Jews have caused all the wars in the Middle East since 1948, that Jews control the U.S. Government, that you "guess" the Holocaust was bad, that Jews somehow prevented the USS Liberty Naval Court of Inquiry from recording or publishing key evidence that proved Israel knew the Liberty was an American ship (though you refuse to explain how they did this), that Mao was less repressive than Chiang, that there was no such country as "Free China," that Red China was less repressive than Free China (Taiwan), that Mao didn't really murder millions of people, etc., etc.

And you still have not admitted that you lied about General Fakui's relationship with Chiang. You got caught red-handed trying to mislead readers into believing that General Fakui sided with Wang Jingwei during the war and that therefore his admission that the Chinese were the aggressors in the fighting at Shanghai was worthless.

You never cite any serious scholarship on the Sino-Japanese War or Chiang Kai-Shek. The few times you do cite a source, you cite superficial, amateurish stuff that you find on the Internet. You keep repeating Chinese Communist talking points about Mao, Chiang, the Japanese, and the Sino-Japanese War.

You keep appealing to the fact that your wife is Chinese and then pretend to speak for all Chinese. Well, as I've said, my oldest son's wife is also Chinese and grew up in China, and she and her family view Mao as a monster.

You should feel fortunate that our moderators are so tolerant. Many forums would have long since banned you by now for your sick views and your rudeness.

 

[JoeB131]

It is not name-calling. It is accurate. You are a neo-Nazi. You are a Mao lover. And you do endlessly repeat jihadist propaganda about Israel and the Jews, which mirrors neo-Nazi propaganda about Israel and the Jews. I am simply describing what you yourself have made clear you are.

Guy, the problem is, Israel's Hitler Card overran it's limit years ago. You can't keep whining "But Hitler" after every massacre on the West Bank and Gaza. The world just ain't buying it anymore.

Just to remind you, in recent weeks you've said that the Jews caused Hitler's animosity toward them by supposedly wrecking Germany after WWI (an ugly Nazi lie), that "Hitler wasn't the problem"

Except it wasn't a Nazi lie. It was accepted amongst most Germans (including my grandparents) long before the Nazis came to power.

And you still have not admitted that you lied about General Fakui's relationship with Chiang.

Nope, I pointed out the obvious about Zhang (that you keep insisting on using his personal name shows your ignorance of Chinese culture!)

1) That he sided several times with Wang Jengwei, who eventually became a Japanese Collaborator.
2) That his conduct in the battle for Shanghai was GROSSLY incompetent. (The Nationalists gave the Italians a run for their money in the category of "Worst Generals")
3) That after that, he sought commands that put him as far away from the Japanese as humanly possible.

You should feel fortunate that our moderators are so tolerant. Many forums would have long since banned you by now for your sick views and your rudeness.

And they'd ban you for being a crank, so what is your point?

You never cite any serious scholarship on the Sino-Japanese War or Chiang Kai-Shek. The few times you do cite a source, you cite superficial, amateurish stuff that you find on the Internet. You keep repeating Chinese Communist talking points about Mao, Chiang, the Japanese, and the Sino-Japanese War.

You are the one who comes on here defending or downplaying the Japanese's genocidal war of aggression.

You see, why I try to give people context of WHY the Holocaust happened, I don't pretend it didn't happen or that it was every bit as bad as generally accepted.

There's a reason why the Japanese are hated in China, Korea, and most of the rest of Asia, even 80 years later. The Rape of Nanking, Unit 751, the Bataan Death March, Forcing girls into prostitution as "Comfort women".

 

[Unkotare]

Joeblow seems to love abuse. He keeps coming back to this thread to get his ass kicked. At this point he has revealed too much of his true colors to come back from it. He's gonna be thrown in the same dumpster as BrokeLoser and IM2.

 

[Unkotare]

...

There's a reason why the Japanese are hated in China, Korea, and most of the rest of Asia, even 80 years later.....

Not as much as you seem to think, "expert."

 

[JoeB131]

Not as much as you seem to think, "expert."

Actually, pretty much they are.

Chinese Views of Japan Deteriorate in 2024

Chinese attitudes toward Japan have deteriorated significantly, with the vast majority of respondents to an annual survey saying that they had a bad impression of their Japanese neighbors.

www.nippon.com

A 2024 joint survey of people in Japan and China found that 87.7% of Chinese respondents had a bad impression of Japan. This was up 24.8 percentage points year on year and the second highest since the survey was first held in 2005.

The percentage of Japanese having a bad impression of China was down 3.2 points to 89.0%. Chinese views of Japan had improved for two successive years in 2022 and 2023, years in which many people from China visited after the easing of COVID-19 restrictions. However, the kind of spike in negative impressions recorded in 2024 has not been seen since the 28.3-point rise to 92.8% in 2013 following Japan’s nationalization of the Senkaku Islands the previous year.

 

[Unkotare]

Actually, pretty much they are.

Chinese Views of Japan Deteriorate in 2024

Chinese attitudes toward Japan have deteriorated significantly, with the vast majority of respondents to an annual survey saying that they had a bad impression of their Japanese neighbors.

www.nippon.com

A 2024 joint survey of people in Japan and China found that 87.7% of Chinese respondents had a bad impression of Japan. This was up 24.8 percentage points year on year and the second highest since the survey was first held in 2005.

The percentage of Japanese having a bad impression of China was down 3.2 points to 89.0%. Chinese views of Japan had improved for two successive years in 2022 and 2023, years in which many people from China visited after the easing of COVID-19 restrictions. However, the kind of spike in negative impressions recorded in 2024 has not been seen since the 28.3-point rise to 92.8% in 2013 following Japan’s nationalization of the Senkaku Islands the previous year.

Talk to people - real people. Lots of young people not related to you. Adults in China know how to respond to dangerously loaded questions. People in Japan aren't too thrilled about some of the worst tourists in the world.

 

[JoeB131]

Talk to people - real people. Lots of young people not related to you. Adults in China know how to respond to dangerously loaded questions. People in Japan aren't too thrilled about some of the worst tourists in the world.

It's not just about China.

Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A survey in 2005 found that 89% of those South Koreans polled said that they "cannot trust Japan." More recently, according to a BBC World Service Poll conducted in 2013, 67% of South Koreans view Japan's influence negatively, and 21% express a positive view. This puts South Korea behind mainland China as the country with the second most negative feelings of Japan in the world.

 

[Unkotare]

It's not just about China.

Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A survey in 2005 found that 89% of those South Koreans polled said that they "cannot trust Japan." More recently, according to a BBC World Service Poll conducted in 2013, 67% of South Koreans view Japan's influence negatively, and 21% express a positive view. This puts South Korea behind mainland China as the country with the second most negative feelings of Japan in the world.

Last year tourism between Japan and South Korea passed 11 million travelers. This is a 500 percent increase since diplomatic relations were resumed in 1965. Young people in South Korea are mad for Japanese anime and tourism. Japanese housewives are mad for Korean dramas. Classes to learn Korean so as to watch these dramas in the original Korean are through the roof. Anti-Japanese sentiment spikes when the authoritarian governments of China or to a lesser degree South Korea damn well tell people to feel that way.

 

[JoeB131]

Last year tourism between Japan and South Korea passed 11 million travelers.

Um, so what?

36 million tourists crossed the US-Mexico border.

I would hardly call our attitudes towards each other healthy.

 

[Unkotare]

Um, so what?
...

When was the last time you vacationed in Russia or North Korea?

 

[JoeB131]

When was the last time you vacationed in Russia or North Korea?

Wasn't my point at all.

I wouldn't vacation in NK, or Russia, or even China, for that matter. But not because I have anything against any of their people.

But vacationing doesn't mean there's not a lot of hostility underneath the relationship.

 

[Unkotare]

Wasn't my point at all.

I wouldn't vacation in NK, or Russia, or even China, for that matter. ...

Why not?

 

[JoeB131]

Why not?

Something about "getting thrown in jail for having the wrong opinion".

(Although China isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. But given the Mrs. had to flee because of attending the wrong church, probably not practical to go back until at least she has her citizenship here.)

Frankly, I've only been outside the US twice in my life. Not even when I was in the military.

 

[Unkotare]

Something about "getting thrown in jail for having the wrong opinion".
...

Don't worry, you can have opinions in China. Marching in the streets with stupid signs, blocking traffic, or burning their flag is another matter.

 

[Unkotare]

...

(Although China isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. ...

"You guys"?

 

[Rigby5]

Buddy, even the Japanese don't make the kinds of lame-ass excuses you make for their genocidal war.

I have a great deal of admiration for the Japanese and their culture, but what they did in WWII/the Second Sino-Japanese War was beyond the pale of common decency, as bad as what the Nazis did in Europe.



Considering she was born in 1968 and died in 2004, not likely. She was born in the United States...

Do some research before you open your pie-hole.

Iris Chang - Wikipedia

I disagree.
The British, French, and US had taken over China illegally, and actually the Japanese were just trying to return the legal Emperor to the throne.

The point is Iris Chang got nothing right.
For example, she found an article in a Japanese paper about a contest between 2 Japanese soldiers over their success with a sword, since Japanese consider firearms to be cheating.
And while the article listed the winner of the contest based on how many of the enemy they killed in combat, with a sword, Iris Chang lied and claimed the contest was about how many bound prisoners they had beheaded.

But it was this war in China over which the US imposed economic sanctions on Japan, over oil, coal, and steel. Which is illegal. The 1906 Geneva Convention had made economic sanctions on civilian goods, totally illegal.

So in reality it was the US that started WWII, and not the Japanese.
They were just retaliating.

 

[Rigby5]

Don't care...

The Rape of Nanking is a historical event.... I put your shit up there with the Neo-Nazis who deny the Holocaust happened.



Again, you are the one who blurts out McCarthyite propaganda and expects me to get upset about it. Stalin was a bastard. He wasn't a genocidal bastard.



Again, don't waste my valuable time with horseshit. There's also a big difference between some people drowing because of flooding and people dying because they were systematically raped and murdered by an occupying army.



No, they were worse... much, much, much worse, which is why the Japanese are still hated by the Chinese and Koreans.

Anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea - Wikipedia

Anti-Japanese sentiment in China - Wikipedia

First thing Japan needs to do... openly admit they did bad shit with massacres and comfort women and the rest of that shit. That would be a good start.

Actually the Holocaust did not really happen.
I am Jewish, but the reality is that Zionists like David ben Guion and Chaim Weizmann stole secrets from Berlin and gave them to the British, in exchange for the Balfour Declaration, in WWI.
So the claim there was genocide of a religion is false.
In reality is was about a group of immigrants who were traitors.
The proof of that is that over 100,000 Jews served in the Wehrmacht under Hitler, and neither they nor their Jewish families were harmed in any way.

Something happened in Nanking, because international embassies saw atrocities and saved lives. But the Iris Chang book is totally and completely fictional, without any valid or useful information in it.