The Nanking Massacre and Iris Chang's Book The Rape of Nanking

[JoeB131]

Too bad Sun Yat Sen did not live another 20 years.

Why? He would have run into the same problems that Peanut did.

Sun Yat-sen was probably the guy who caused the problems China had. When he agreed to let Yuan Shikai become President, even though the guy was kind of a weasel, he set the stage for the warlord era. Yuan helped him oust the Qing Dynasty, only to turn around and try to declare himself Emperor. That, in turn, caused every general with an army to try to become a warlord.

China was a fragmented country by the time Sun had died (Yuan having kicked the bucket some time before.)

Now, Mormon Mike would try to give Chiang credit for re-unifying the country, but that's bullshit. He coopted the warlords he could work with, defeated others, turned on the Communists when they wanted a share of the power, and was completely useless in opposing the Japanese.

After the war, Chiang got his ass kicked to Taiwan, and guys like Mike scream, "Who lost China? FDR was a Communist!"

 

[JoeB131]

Japan had never been our ally, they were recognized as our main competitor in the Pacific and Asia. The USA didn’t ban Japanese merchant shipping from the Canal.

Japan was going to war with the USA, it was only a matter of time. Japan’s entire navy was designed and built to establish local superiority over the USN and defeat it like Japan had defeated the Russian navy at Tsushima. The oil embargo simply moved the beginning of hostilities up a year or so.

The reason the Axis got away with the shit they got away with for so long is because people like Mikey were more afraid of Stalin and those dirty stinking commies taking away rich people's stuff.

Japan started committing aggression against China in 1931. The West didn't try to do anything about it until 1940, and only then because Japan was coveting their colonies in the region.

It's easier to understand WW2 if you stop pretending there were "good guys" and just realize it was "really bad guys" against "Kind of feckless, slightly less, bad guys."

 

[mikegriffith1]

Chiang was a fascist dictator. We invested a significant amount of money in the place because we didn't want Mao to secure China's seat in the UN. Even Richard Nixon realized that the policy was absurd. (although it didn't end until Carter.)

China has made plenty of progress. It went from a country that was a war-torn ruin for a couple of decades to one that could hold the entire UN to a standstill in Korea. There was a period in the 1960s where we were more terrified of China than the USSR.

You, yet again, simply repeat the same debunked Chinese Communist nonsense that you've been peddling here for years. It doesn't bother you that you discredit yourself every time you ignore the ugly truth about Mao's China and repeat Communist propaganda about Free China.

And, just FYI, more for the sake of other readers than for you, regarding your fiction about Nixon's Asia policy, Nixon always argued that we should help keep Taiwan free and should provide military aid to Taiwan for as long as necessary. See his book The Real War, pp. 137-146.

 

[Stryder50]

Why? He would have run into the same problems that Peanut did.

Sun Yat-sen was probably the guy who caused the problems China had. When he agreed to let Yuan Shikai become President, even though the guy was kind of a weasel, he set the stage for the warlord era. Yuan helped him oust the Qing Dynasty, only to turn around and try to declare himself Emperor. That, in turn, caused every general with an army to try to become a warlord.

China was a fragmented country by the time Sun had died (Yuan having kicked the bucket some time before.)

Now, Mormon Mike would try to give Chiang credit for re-unifying the country, but that's bullshit. He coopted the warlords he could work with, defeated others, turned on the Communists when they wanted a share of the power, and was completely useless in opposing the Japanese.

After the war, Chiang got his ass kicked to Taiwan, and guys like Mike scream, "Who lost China? FDR was a Communist!"

The Communists were even more useless in opposing the Japanese than Chiang/Nationalists were. Both were saving what resources they could for the 'civil war' the expected after the other Allies had defeated Japan.

Chiang/Nationalists occupied the more desirable land and natural resources that Japan was after and provided enough resistance to distract most of Japan's army into China.

 

[Stryder50]

The reason the Axis got away with the shit they got away with for so long is because people like Mikey were more afraid of Stalin and those dirty stinking commies taking away rich people's stuff.

Japan started committing aggression against China in 1931. The West didn't try to do anything about it until 1940, and only then because Japan was coveting their colonies in the region.

It's easier to understand WW2 if you stop pretending there were "good guys" and just realize it was "really bad guys" against "Kind of feckless, slightly less, bad guys."

Japan started committing aggression against China back in the early 1900s.

Since you don't know the difference between Good vs. Evil you only see what closest resembles you.

 

[JoeB131]

You, yet again, simply repeat the same debunked Chinese Communist nonsense that you've been peddling here for years. It doesn't bother you that you discredit yourself every time you ignore the ugly truth about Mao's China and repeat Communist propaganda about Free China.

There was no "Free China". Chiang was a military dictator. He was also a fascist who really wanted to join the Axis. Imagine being such a ******* incompetent fascist that Mussolini gets into the Axis and you don't! Hilarious. Oh, wait, you don't need to imagine being an incompetent fascist, you already are one.

And, just FYI, more for the sake of other readers than for you, regarding your fiction about Nixon's Asia policy, Nixon always argued that we should help keep Taiwan free and should provide military aid to Taiwan for as long as necessary. See his book The Real War, pp. 137-146.

Uh, guy, Nixon going to China was a game-changer in the US/China relationship. Besides playing China and the USSR off against each other (Brilliant), it recognized the reality that Beijing ruled China, not Taipei.

The Communists were even more useless in opposing the Japanese than Chiang/Nationalists were. Both were saving what resources they could for the 'civil war' the expected after the other Allies had defeated Japan.

Hmmm... not really. The CCP worked effectively behind Japanese lines, truly screwing up their logistics. This experience served them well when they were ready to take out that rat, Chiang.

Chiang/Nationalists occupied the more desirable land and natural resources that Japan was after and provided enough resistance to distract most of Japan's army into China.

That's not really true, either. In fact, while the Axis was being rolled up across the rest of the world, the only place it was making decent progress well into 1944 and 1945 was in China. See Operation Ichi-Go.

Japan started committing aggression against China back in the early 1900s.

Since you don't know the difference between Good vs. Evil you only see what closest resembles you.

What the Japanese did was evil. They killed 30 million people in their attempt to conquer Asia and the Pacfic. It's why they are still hated in Asia 80 years later.

 

[Stryder50]

There was no "Free China". Chiang was a military dictator. He was also a fascist who really wanted to join the Axis. Imagine being such a ******* incompetent fascist that Mussolini gets into the Axis and you don't! Hilarious. Oh, wait, you don't need to imagine being an incompetent fascist, you already are one.



Uh, guy, Nixon going to China was a game-changer in the US/China relationship. Besides playing China and the USSR off against each other (Brilliant), it recognized the reality that Beijing ruled China, not Taipei.



Hmmm... not really. The CCP worked effectively behind Japanese lines, truly screwing up their logistics. This experience served them well when they were ready to take out that rat, Chiang.



That's not really true, either. In fact, while the Axis was being rolled up across the rest of the world, the only place it was making decent progress well into 1944 and 1945 was in China. See Operation Ichi-Go.



What the Japanese did was evil. They killed 30 million people in their attempt to conquer Asia and the Pacfic. It's why they are still hated in Asia 80 years later.

Mao and the communist were in the hinterlands of Western China, away from the ports, major cities and most of the resources, especially food growing regions that Japan was after.

I'm well aware of Ichi-Go, I'm the one who started a thread on the CBI - China-Burma-India theater of World War II. Japan had hit a wall on eastward expansion of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, being pushed back by the Allies. Japan's command was split between the Navy and the Army and they often failed to co-operate with each other. The Army played second fiddle to the Pacific campaigns leaving China and West Asia as their main game. IJA was making middlin' progress in China and bundled what resources they could consolidate to push Ichi-Go.

My comment on your confusion between good and evil has to do with your positions on more current matters in modern times, in the events of Western Civ.

 

[JoeB131]

Mao and the communist were in the hinterlands of Western China, away from the ports, major cities and most of the resources, especially food growing regions that Japan was after.

Yet they harrassed Japanese supply lines from Korea to the front, that was the thing.

There's a reason why so many Chinese flocked to Mao's banner after the war. Chiang started the war with a four-to-one advantage in manpower and a vast advantage in equipment. That quickly changed in a very short time, as most of those men either deserted or switched sides.

(Some Mormon Shithead will squeal at this point, "That's because Truman's adminstration was full of Communists who wanted Mao to win!!!")

I'm well aware of Ichi-Go, I'm the one who started a thread on the CBI - China-Burma-India theater of World War II. Japan had hit a wall on eastward expansion of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, being pushed back by the Allies. Japan's command was split between the Navy and the Army and they often failed to co-operate with each other. The Army played second fiddle to the Pacific campaigns leaving China and West Asia as their main game. IJA was making middlin' progress in China and bundled what resources they could consolidate to push Ichi-Go.

Well, I would doubt that the Army was starved for resources, given that most of Japan's military forces were concentrated in China. Japan's biggest problem in WWII is that they didn't understand logistics very well, so they'd stick men on these crappy little Islands and then have no way to resupply them effectively.

But as often as incompetent as the Japanese were (The only reason they didn't get their teeth kicked in a lot sooner was because the US was focused on Europe), Chiang was so much worse. Hundreds of thousands of tons of western equipment made its way to China and throughout 1943, Chiang didn't launch a single offensive. Japan thought they could knock China out of the war with Ichi-Go, and if the US hadn't started bombing the snot out of the home Islandsi in 1945, they might well have succeeded.

My comment on your confusion between good and evil has to do with your positions on more current matters in modern times, in the events of Western Civ.

That's because your views of "good" are biased by your racist, religious, and sexual bigotries. Like most good Conservative Christians, you hate Gays and Mexicans, just like Jesus did.

 

[Unkotare]

Mao and the communist were in the hinterlands of Western China, away from the ports, major cities and most of the resources, especially food growing regions that Japan was after.

I'm well aware of Ichi-Go, I'm the one who started a thread on the CBI - China-Burma-India theater of World War II. Japan had hit a wall on eastward expansion of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, being pushed back by the Allies. Japan's command was split between the Navy and the Army and they often failed to co-operate with each other. The Army played second fiddle to the Pacific campaigns leaving China and West Asia as their main game. IJA was making middlin' progress in China and bundled what resources they could consolidate to push Ichi-Go.

My comment on your confusion between good and evil has to do with your positions on more current matters in modern times, in the events of Western Civ.

Strawberries?

 

[mikegriffith1]

Here's a segment of a great presentation by Dr. Sarah Paine, a historian at the U.S. Naval War College, on the horrors of Mao's rule:

 

[JoeB131]

Here's a segment of a great presentation by Dr. Sarah Paine, a historian at the U.S. Naval War College, on the horrors of Mao's rule:

Oooh, another white person.

Man, I am sure Asians are happy to have white people like you to tell them what their history is.

No, I could pick apart this cow's comments, like her claim that the Great Famine was the only nationwide famine. This is horseshit. First, it wasn't nationwide, and secondly, China has had famines all throughout its history.

Some of her other numbers are just utter horseshit bircher crap. LIke 6 million for the Civil War and 8 million during the "purges".
Or her claim that China has had more deaths than the whole of World War II... just ******* absurd.

But let's talk about Famines, shall we? You'd think the Way the Paine and Axis Mikey carry on, China never had a famine before Mao got there. There's a reason why your parents always told you to finish what they got, they're starving in China.

The Famine of 1906 killed 25 million people, and hastened the well-deserved end of the Qing Dynasty.
Famines and the Taiping Rebellion killed upwards of 45 million people between 1846 and 1873
The Sichuan Famine in 1936 killed 5 million
The Great Northern Famine of 1876 killed 13 million.

 

[Unkotare]

Oooh, another white person.

Man, I am sure Asians are happy to have white people like you to tell them what their history is.

Instead of white people like YOU?

 

[Unkotare]

...


No, I could pick apart this cow's comments, like her claim that the Great Famine was the only nationwide famine. This is horseshit. First, it wasn't nationwide, and secondly, China has had famines all throughout its history.

Some of her other numbers are just utter horseshit bircher crap. LIke 6 million for the Civil War and 8 million during the "purges".
Or her claim that China has had more deaths than the whole of World War II... just ******* absurd.
...

Oh, now you don't like inaccurate history? Hmmmm....

 

[JoeB131]

Instead of white people like YOU?

I wouldn't try to tell an Asian what her history is.

My wife tells me about Chinese history and culture, I don't lecture to her what she SHOULD believe.

Oh, now you don't like inaccurate history?

History is the lie that everyone agrees upon. - Voltaire

 

[JoeB131]

Thank you for again proving that you are a racist fool. Just FYI, not that you care about facts and research, but there are plenty of historians who are Asians, not to mention tens of thousands of Chinese who fled Mao's rule after he came to power, who have pointed out the same facts that Dr. Paine discusses in her lecture. Just FYI.

Yeah, I've seen Paine and her nonsense before.

The biggest problem with her and you is that you simply don't understand Chinese culture or history.

Tens of thousands fled. Millions stayed and prospered.

China under Mao went from being a backwards, fractured country to where it is today, a global powerhouse that will probably overtake America.

And this just burns you.

You have no business even talking about this stuff on a public board. We've already seen in this thread that you make one blundering claim after another and never admit when your nonsense is refuted.

When you are man enough to refute me, let me know.

Also, the alteration of text reported.