The Myth of Sanders’ Socialism

[AzogtheDefiler]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

He has not held a job to which he wasn’t elected since, well, never....all set.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Comrade Sanders cites Eugene Debs, the five-time presidential candidate of the Socialist Party of America, as his hero.

Comrade Sanders:

“In Vermont, everybody knows that I am a socialist and that many people in our movement, not all, are socialists.”


“To me, socialism doesn’t mean state ownership of everything, by any means, it means creating a nation, and a world, in which all human beings have a decent standard of living.”


“Bill Clinton is a moderate Democrat. I’m a democratic socialist.”

 

[MisterBeale]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

"Boogeyman" really is a good way to describe it. The problem is that most on the Right have been conditioned (by the usual suspects) to see virtually everything in a binary state. So, in their minds, there is only "capitalism" or "socialism", good or evil, black or white, one or the other. This has been drummed into them for the last 30+ years, so for many of them, it's all they've ever known.

At some level, they HAVE to know that this all exists along a continuum, that the task is not to magically "beat" the "other side", but to find the right place of equilibrium.

But the problem here is that the binary thought processes with which these people have been afflicted simply don't allow for anything deeper than binary viewpoints. As a result, it's virtually impossible for them to even RECOGNIZE that a point of equilibrium might even EXIST.
.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

 

[JoeB131]

He has not held a job to which he wasn’t elected since, well, never....all set.

Getting elected is hard work. I doubt you could get elected to anything, based on your personality.

 

[Norman]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

"Boogeyman" really is a good way to describe it. The problem is that most on the Right have been conditioned (by the usual suspects) to see virtually everything in a binary state. So, in their minds, there is only "capitalism" or "socialism", good or evil, black or white, one or the other. This has been drummed into them for the last 30+ years, so for many of them, it's all they've ever known.

At some level, they HAVE to know that this all exists along a continuum, that the task is not to magically "beat" the "other side", but to find the right place of equilibrium.

But the problem here is that the binary thought processes with which these people have been afflicted simply don't allow for anything deeper than binary viewpoints. As a result, it's virtually impossible for them to even RECOGNIZE that a point of equilibrium might even EXIST.
.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

A other problem with Sanders is that he endorsed Hillary Clinton.

 

[gipper]

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

Well, he doesn't help himself by praising Fidel Castro to the people who barely got away from him in leaky boats.

You’ve been duped or maybe you’re just dumb. Do you really think EVERYTHING Castro did was bad?

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

They have "Democratic Socialism" in Venezuela.

They are eating their dogs right now.

It wasn't the "Billionaires" who rejected Bernie, it was regular folks who realized that for all it's flaws, Capitalism is better than the alternative.

I also think that Bernie was always more hype than reality. Even in the states he's "won", he's performed less well than he did in 2016.

Iowa He got 49% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 26%
New Hampshire He got 60% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 25%
Nevada He got 47% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 40%
Colorado He got 59% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 36%
California He got 46% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 33%

Even Vermont, his HOME STATE, he got 50% of the vote, compared to the 86% he got in 2016.

I am starting to suspect a lot of his support in 2016 was less "We want us some socialism" and more "We really don't like Hillary!"

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

A Soros website cannot erase decades of Bernie quotes.

Bernie Sanders in 1972: 'I don't mind people calling me a communist'

Like trained monkeys, many on the right and left do as the billionaires instruct. Unknowingly.

Calling people monkeys for quoting Comrade Sanders. Typical Bernie Bro.

I’m sure I could find quotes from your messiah Dumb Donnie, that if you’re honest, you wouldn’t like.

Quotes from decades ago, you might want to consider as inapplicable today, but only if you can think.

 

[sparky]

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

Good one Mr B!

but now i wonder how 'where investors exert a strong influence over the state' would be defined?

~S~

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

"Boogeyman" really is a good way to describe it. The problem is that most on the Right have been conditioned (by the usual suspects) to see virtually everything in a binary state. So, in their minds, there is only "capitalism" or "socialism", good or evil, black or white, one or the other. This has been drummed into them for the last 30+ years, so for many of them, it's all they've ever known.

At some level, they HAVE to know that this all exists along a continuum, that the task is not to magically "beat" the "other side", but to find the right place of equilibrium.

But the problem here is that the binary thought processes with which these people have been afflicted simply don't allow for anything deeper than binary viewpoints. As a result, it's virtually impossible for them to even RECOGNIZE that a point of equilibrium might even EXIST.
.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

Let’s not have more government. Let’s have better government.

Clearly our government today is by for and of the 1%. Why not change that? Bernie is the only one advocating this. Will he act do it should he win, is anyone’s guess.

 

[Weatherman2020]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

They have "Democratic Socialism" in Venezuela.

They are eating their dogs right now.

It wasn't the "Billionaires" who rejected Bernie, it was regular folks who realized that for all it's flaws, Capitalism is better than the alternative.

I also think that Bernie was always more hype than reality. Even in the states he's "won", he's performed less well than he did in 2016.

Iowa He got 49% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 26%
New Hampshire He got 60% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 25%
Nevada He got 47% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 40%
Colorado He got 59% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 36%
California He got 46% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 33%

Even Vermont, his HOME STATE, he got 50% of the vote, compared to the 86% he got in 2016.

I am starting to suspect a lot of his support in 2016 was less "We want us some socialism" and more "We really don't like Hillary!"

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

A Soros website cannot erase decades of Bernie quotes.

Bernie Sanders in 1972: 'I don't mind people calling me a communist'

Like trained monkeys, many on the right and left do as the billionaires instruct. Unknowingly.

Calling people monkeys for quoting Comrade Sanders. Typical Bernie Bro.

I’m sure I could find quotes from your messiah Dumb Donnie, that if you’re honest, you wouldn’t like.

Quotes from decades ago, you might want to consider as inapplicable today, but only if you can think.

Decades ago? Most of those are in the last 8 years.

How about a quote from Comrade Sanders telling us about the horrors of Communism and the 160 million people murdered by their own Commie governments?

You can include his recent praise of Fidel Castro if you wish.

 

[gipper]

"Boogeyman" really is a good way to describe it. The problem is that most on the Right have been conditioned (by the usual suspects) to see virtually everything in a binary state. So, in their minds, there is only "capitalism" or "socialism", good or evil, black or white, one or the other. This has been drummed into them for the last 30+ years, so for many of them, it's all they've ever known.

At some level, they HAVE to know that this all exists along a continuum, that the task is not to magically "beat" the "other side", but to find the right place of equilibrium.

But the problem here is that the binary thought processes with which these people have been afflicted simply don't allow for anything deeper than binary viewpoints. As a result, it's virtually impossible for them to even RECOGNIZE that a point of equilibrium might even EXIST.
.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

A other problem with Sanders is that he endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Agreed. That is a problem. She exemplified everything he rails against. He tries to appease the D party and for this, they kick him in the balls. Hopefully he’s learned something.

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Boogeyman" really is a good way to describe it. The problem is that most on the Right have been conditioned (by the usual suspects) to see virtually everything in a binary state. So, in their minds, there is only "capitalism" or "socialism", good or evil, black or white, one or the other. This has been drummed into them for the last 30+ years, so for many of them, it's all they've ever known.

At some level, they HAVE to know that this all exists along a continuum, that the task is not to magically "beat" the "other side", but to find the right place of equilibrium.

But the problem here is that the binary thought processes with which these people have been afflicted simply don't allow for anything deeper than binary viewpoints. As a result, it's virtually impossible for them to even RECOGNIZE that a point of equilibrium might even EXIST.
.

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

Let’s not have more government. Let’s have better government.

Clearly our government today is by for and of the 1%. Why not change that? Bernie is the only one advocating this. Will he act do it should he win, is anyone’s guess.

How much of his fortune gained on the taxpayers dime does Comrade Sanders give to charity since you claim he cares about the 99%?

2.26%

Pathetic.

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

They have "Democratic Socialism" in Venezuela.

They are eating their dogs right now.

It wasn't the "Billionaires" who rejected Bernie, it was regular folks who realized that for all it's flaws, Capitalism is better than the alternative.

I also think that Bernie was always more hype than reality. Even in the states he's "won", he's performed less well than he did in 2016.

Iowa He got 49% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 26%
New Hampshire He got 60% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 25%
Nevada He got 47% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 40%
Colorado He got 59% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 36%
California He got 46% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 33%

Even Vermont, his HOME STATE, he got 50% of the vote, compared to the 86% he got in 2016.

I am starting to suspect a lot of his support in 2016 was less "We want us some socialism" and more "We really don't like Hillary!"

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

A Soros website cannot erase decades of Bernie quotes.

Bernie Sanders in 1972: 'I don't mind people calling me a communist'

Like trained monkeys, many on the right and left do as the billionaires instruct. Unknowingly.

Calling people monkeys for quoting Comrade Sanders. Typical Bernie Bro.

I’m sure I could find quotes from your messiah Dumb Donnie, that if you’re honest, you wouldn’t like.

Quotes from decades ago, you might want to consider as inapplicable today, but only if you can think.

Decades ago? Most of those are in the last 8 years.

How about a quote from Comrade Sanders telling us about the horrors of Communism and the 160 million people murdered by their own Commie governments?

You can include his recent praise of Fidel Castro if you wish.

He’s a commie. Oh noooooooo.

 

[Weatherman2020]

They have "Democratic Socialism" in Venezuela.

They are eating their dogs right now.

It wasn't the "Billionaires" who rejected Bernie, it was regular folks who realized that for all it's flaws, Capitalism is better than the alternative.

I also think that Bernie was always more hype than reality. Even in the states he's "won", he's performed less well than he did in 2016.

Iowa He got 49% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 26%
New Hampshire He got 60% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 25%
Nevada He got 47% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 40%
Colorado He got 59% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 36%
California He got 46% of the vote in 2016. In 2020 he got 33%

Even Vermont, his HOME STATE, he got 50% of the vote, compared to the 86% he got in 2016.

I am starting to suspect a lot of his support in 2016 was less "We want us some socialism" and more "We really don't like Hillary!"

A Soros website cannot erase decades of Bernie quotes.

Bernie Sanders in 1972: 'I don't mind people calling me a communist'

Like trained monkeys, many on the right and left do as the billionaires instruct. Unknowingly.

Calling people monkeys for quoting Comrade Sanders. Typical Bernie Bro.

I’m sure I could find quotes from your messiah Dumb Donnie, that if you’re honest, you wouldn’t like.

Quotes from decades ago, you might want to consider as inapplicable today, but only if you can think.

Decades ago? Most of those are in the last 8 years.

How about a quote from Comrade Sanders telling us about the horrors of Communism and the 160 million people murdered by their own Commie governments?

You can include his recent praise of Fidel Castro if you wish.

He’s a commie. Oh noooooooo.

Tell us more how Russia beat Hillary

 

[gipper]

Unfortunately, it’s not just the right. The left is just as guilty and many on the left believe just as those on the right, that Bernie is a crazy commie. Proof the billionaire media still has the power to brainwash.

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

Let’s not have more government. Let’s have better government.

Clearly our government today is by for and of the 1%. Why not change that? Bernie is the only one advocating this. Will he act do it should he win, is anyone’s guess.

How much of his fortune gained on the taxpayers dime does Comrade Sanders give to charity since you claim he cares about the 99%?

Don’t know or care. If you think ALL politicians are honest 100% of the time, you’re an idiot.

Apply the same standard you have for Bernie, to your messiah dumb Don.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

He has not held a job to which he wasn’t elected since, well, never....all set.

Getting elected is hard work. I doubt you could get elected to anything, based on your personality.

I appreciate your support for Donald Trump. It was hard becoming President with no prior political experience.

 

[gipper]

Like trained monkeys, many on the right and left do as the billionaires instruct. Unknowingly.

Calling people monkeys for quoting Comrade Sanders. Typical Bernie Bro.

I’m sure I could find quotes from your messiah Dumb Donnie, that if you’re honest, you wouldn’t like.

Quotes from decades ago, you might want to consider as inapplicable today, but only if you can think.

Decades ago? Most of those are in the last 8 years.

How about a quote from Comrade Sanders telling us about the horrors of Communism and the 160 million people murdered by their own Commie governments?

You can include his recent praise of Fidel Castro if you wish.

He’s a commie. Oh noooooooo.

Tell us more how Russia beat Hillary

You got the wrong guy. Russiagate was clearly a hoax.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

Let’s not have more government. Let’s have better government.

Clearly our government today is by for and of the 1%. Why not change that? Bernie is the only one advocating this. Will he act do it should he win, is anyone’s guess.

How much of his fortune gained on the taxpayers dime does Comrade Sanders give to charity since you claim he cares about the 99%?

Don’t know or care. If you think ALL politicians are honest 100% of the time, you’re an idiot.

Apply the same standard you have for Bernie, to your messiah dumb Don.

You don’t care that Sanders is just in politics to gain personal wealth? Why do you feel the need to lie for him?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Bernie is the perfect socialist. Lives like royalty while everyone else lives in squalor.

Bernie Sanders Donated Less Than One Percent To Charity First Year He Made Over $1 Million

 

[JoeB131]

You’ve been duped or maybe you’re just dumb. Do you really think EVERYTHING Castro did was bad?

No, but by that same logic, not everything Hitler did was bad. The Autobahn was rather nice.

I do think our relationship with Cuba has been one where we are just as bad as Castro and his regime in our behavior...

But this is about winning elections. Biden can win Florida. Commie Bernie can't.