The Left: " Employers Are Responsible For Illegal Immigration"

[sealybobo]

I suspect it would, but I don’t know of an example where it has.

I’m fine going after employers as long as that’s not the only step we take to stop illegal immigration.

There is a strong pull to the US by our welfare system and our medical care. Punishing employers will not stop people who cross the border in order to get food stamps then use them to buy cornmeal and pork to make tamales to sell while waiting to have their baby in a US emergency room.

Trust me, the jobs are what's luring them here. Fine, don't give illegals access to social services. I'm not arguing they should get access to social services. But what's going to happen is they are not going to go after the illegal employers. But Trump will have shown that "he tried" and the problem will continue to exist. Because even Mara Lago hires them. We need employers afraid they'll get caught.

I know exactly how it works. My former boss owns a music school. I knew a wonderful violin instructor from Iran who was here on a student visa. He would NOT hire him. He would not take the chance and lose his business. Why was he so paranoid? IDK but I wish they all were like him.

 

[sealybobo]

American workers will get higher wages and be able to afford that very slightly more expensive meat. A lot better than they could afford it while they themselves were on welfare due to being put out of a job by illegal aliens.

Unfortunately, the people who have been in charge the last four years had a very much let them eat cake, attitude, tour, American poverty, and American school workers.

You would have to punish employers very harshly to get them to change. I’m talking about lengthy Prison synthesis.

I’ve always supported that for employers who are illegals and also for government officials who provide welfare benefits to illegals.

but, mainly we need to secure the border, so the problem doesn’t keep happening. Thank God that will happen in the next four years.

Actually, I believe wages have gone up as much as they're going to go up. Increased wages was going to increase inflation so the Feds to fix inflation raised interest rates. They won't allow wages to go up much more.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope construction jobs and landscaping jobs pay a lot more this coming summer.

But then how much to cut your grass? Inflation will go up.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Trust me, the jobs are what's luring them here. Fine, don't give illegals access to social services. I'm not arguing they should get access to social services. But what's going to happen is they are not going to go after the illegal employers. But Trump will have shown that "he tried" and the problem will continue to exist. Because even Mara Lago hires them. We need employers afraid they'll get caught.

I know exactly how it works. My former boss owns a music school. I knew a wonderful violin instructor from Iran who was here on a student visa. He would NOT hire him. He would not take the chance and lose his business. Why was he so paranoid? IDK but I wish they all were like him.

Suppose You are correct and Trump does absolutely nothing about employers hiring illegal aliens. As long as he secures the border and stops illegal aliens from getting welfare, that will be a big step and ending the illegal immigration problem.

Because the worst of the illegal immigrants are definitely not the ones who come to get jobs. They are bad for our economy, but they are nowhere near as bad as the drug smugglers, the human traffickers, the criminals, and the welfare seekers.

Trump’s idea is to close the borders and not let any of them in. Last time he pussyfooted around with the Democrats instead of just getting the jobs done. He has admitted that and that he has learned his lesson.

Democrats will all shriek when he closes the border but then when they not shriek?

 

[sealybobo]

One can only hope, the Xiden/Harris policy of not going after employers that knowingly hire illegals will be reversed

Every time I bring up illegal employers, Republicans defend them. Why is that?

And based on these numbers it was Bush who stopped raiding illegal employers and Trump never brought it back. In fact half way through his first term Trump was an illegal employer himself.

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."

 

[sealybobo]

Suppose You are correct and Trump does absolutely nothing about employers hiring illegal aliens. As long as he secures the border and stops illegal aliens from getting welfare, that will be a big step and ending the illegal immigration problem.

Because the worst of the illegal immigrants are definitely not the ones who come to get jobs. They are bad for our economy, but they are nowhere near as bad as the drug smugglers, the human traffickers, the criminals, and the welfare seekers.

Trump’s idea is to close the borders and not let any of them in. Last time he pussyfooted around with the Democrats instead of just getting the jobs done. He has admitted that and that he has learned his lesson.

Democrats will all shriek when he closes the border but then when they not shriek?

Illegals can come here on a visitor visa and just not go back. They don't need to walk across the border.

And Trust me the border will not be impenetrable. That's why building a wall is a waste of time and money. They already have tunnels underneath. They already go over it. If you don't patrol a wall what good is it?

I can't argue with what you say. I want them to patrol the border 24/7 and shoot anything crossing the desert. Just kill them. That'll stop it.

 

[JohnDB]

They show up with a bogus social security card and they get hired

The employer just shrugs and says “how was I to know?”

And they get away with it

Over and over

Nope....
E-verify is too easy not to use.
Especially for small businesses that use a payroll service or even payroll software. And the cash registers make it too easy not to.

Payroll services are a tad more expensive because of the deposits that have to be held by them. But literally EVERYONE uses either software or services. Never heard of anyone that didn't use one or the other.

And if I was the IRS it's the VERY THING I WOULD LOOK FOR...WHO IS NOT USING A SERVICE OR SOFTWARE. E-Verify is very much attached to these services. And the employees usually just get a stub instead of a paycheck as most get direct deposit....some get deposits on a specialty debit card made for payroll. But physical checks? Nobody has done that in decades. Too expensive and too easy to commit fraud with anymore. So employers avoid them like the plague.

And customers literally pay for the Payroll services with a 2%service charge for using credit/debit cards....not completely but enough that it really is cheaper than doing it yourself. (Time is money and automated books make life easy) After a 12 hr shift you really don't want to do paperwork.

 

[sealybobo]

Nope....
E-verify is too easy not to use.
Especially for small businesses that use a payroll service or even payroll software. And the cash registers make it too easy not to.

Payroll services are a tad more expensive because of the deposits that have to be held by them. But literally EVERYONE uses either software or services. Never heard of anyone that didn't use one or the other.

And if I was the IRS it's the VERY THING I WOULD LOOK FOR...WHO IS NOT USING A SERVICE OR SOFTWARE. E-Verify is very much attached to these services. And the employees usually just get a stub instead of a paycheck as most get direct deposit....some get deposits on a specialty debit card made for payroll. But physical checks? Nobody has done that in decades. Too expensive and too easy to commit fraud with anymore. So employers avoid them like the plague.

And customers literally pay for the Payroll services with a 2%service charge for using credit/debit cards....not completely but enough that it really is cheaper than doing it yourself. (Time is money and automated books make life easy) After a 12 hr shift you really don't want to do paperwork.

I remember the Republican owned farm who hired the guy who murdered Mollie Tibbetts first said they used Everify. Then we found out they did not. There needs to be punishment for employers who knowingly do this.

The article about what ICE is going to do said "we know where they are". Well, I bet that's because you know where they work. And so do those employers. For some reason they aren't afraid of the law coming after them for breaking the law.

 

[struth]

Every time I bring up illegal employers, Republicans defend them. Why is that?

And based on these numbers it was Bush who stopped raiding illegal employers and Trump never brought it back. In fact half way through his first term Trump was an illegal employer himself.

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."

who's defending them? I greatly oppose Harris and Xiden's policy of not going after people that knowingly hire illegals.

Is reading hard for you?

I have provided links, where Trump prosecuted, and got the largest penalty in history.
I also provided a link where it was Harris and Xiden that changed the policy not to go after people that knowingly hire illegals

 

[Seymour Flops]

Actually, I believe wages have gone up as much as they're going to go up. Increased wages was going to increase inflation so the Feds to fix inflation raised interest rates. They won't allow wages to go up much more.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope construction jobs and landscaping jobs pay a lot more this coming summer.

You may well be 100% right. But we won’t found out by this summer whether Trump policies will increase wages for American worker.

Trump could seal off the border right now with zero illegal immigration and we still have all the millions that the previous administration allow it.

It is laughable for Democrats to recommend harsh punishments for employers. They would not fear that because they know how soft our criminal justice system is. And of course it was the Democrat who made it so soft.

If we truly need people willing to work for lower wages of Americans, then a guest worker programs would be the solution. But such a program is meaningless until we control the border.

People don’t immigrate illegally because the United States allows no legal immigration. People immigrate illegally because they don’t want to be bothered with the legal process. So why would they go through any guest worker process?

But then how much to cut your grass? Inflation will go up.

I’ve never heard anyone to cut my grass. I started cutting grass when I was 11 and now I’m 62 so I’ve been doing it for 51 years. It’s not exactly skilled work.

My Son on the other hand, hires a landscape company to vote his law. His reasoning is that, he makes so much money programming project manager that it would be foolish to spend that valuable time on cutting grass. He will spend an hour and a half or five days a week working out.

He has every right to make that decision, I just don’t want to subsidize it if it means also allowing human traffickers drug smuggler, and rapists to come over the border.

We also subsidize it by providing welfare benefits to low paid workers. But that applies to both illegal aliens and Americans who are minimum wage.

What does all that mean? Getting your grass mowed by someone else is a luxury and if it winds up costing a little more, then I’m not sure I’m going to be upset about that.

 

[justoffal]

Actually, I believe wages have gone up as much as they're going to go up. Increased wages was going to increase inflation so the Feds to fix inflation raised interest rates. They won't allow wages to go up much more.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope construction jobs and landscaping jobs pay a lot more this coming summer.

But then how much to cut your grass? Inflation will go up.

You're not wrong....high wages must be attached to high value.
If you're not receiving a high value service in return for the wages it's intrinsically inflationary.

 

[Lesh]

Nope....
E-verify is too easy not to use.
Especially for small businesses that use a payroll service or even payroll software. And the cash registers make it too easy not to.

Payroll services are a tad more expensive because of the deposits that have to be held by them. But literally EVERYONE uses either software or services. Never heard of anyone that didn't use one or the other.

And if I was the IRS it's the VERY THING I WOULD LOOK FOR...WHO IS NOT USING A SERVICE OR SOFTWARE. E-Verify is very much attached to these services. And the employees usually just get a stub instead of a paycheck as most get direct deposit....some get deposits on a specialty debit card made for payroll. But physical checks? Nobody has done that in decades. Too expensive and too easy to commit fraud with anymore. So employers avoid them like the plague.

And customers literally pay for the Payroll services with a 2%service charge for using credit/debit cards....not completely but enough that it really is cheaper than doing it yourself. (Time is money and automated books make life easy) After a 12 hr shift you really don't want to do paperwork.

You miss the point

If they use E-verify… they can’t hire the people they want to hire

 

[struth]

You miss the point

If they use E-verify… they can’t hire the people they want to hire

Huh? Why not?

 

[Lesh]

You may well be 100% right. But we won’t found out by this summer whether Trump policies will increase wages for American worker.

Trump could seal off the border right now with zero illegal immigration and we still have all the millions that the previous administration allow it.

It is laughable for Democrats to recommend harsh punishments for employers. They would not fear that because they know how soft our criminal justice system is. And of course it was the Democrat who made it so soft.

If we truly need people willing to work for lower wages of Americans, then a guest worker programs would be the solution. But such a program is meaningless until we control the border.

People don’t immigrate illegally because the United States allows no legal immigration. People immigrate illegally because they don’t want to be bothered with the legal process. So why would they go through any guest worker process?

I’ve never heard anyone to cut my grass. I started cutting grass when I was 11 and now I’m 62 so I’ve been doing it for 51 years. It’s not exactly skilled work.

My Son on the other hand, hires a landscape company to vote his law. His reasoning is that, he makes so much money programming project manager that it would be foolish to spend that valuable time on cutting grass. He will spend an hour and a half or five days a week working out.

He has every right to make that decision, I just don’t want to subsidize it if it means also allowing human traffickers drug smuggler, and rapists to come over the border.

We also subsidize it by providing welfare benefits to low paid workers. But that applies to both illegal aliens and Americans who are minimum wage.

What does all that mean? Getting your grass mowed by someone else is a luxury and if it winds up costing a little more, then I’m not sure I’m going to be upset about that.

How many times and how many ways are you going to excuse the employers that hire illegals

You’d almost think that you don’t want to solve this

 

[justoffal]

You may well be 100% right. But we won’t found out by this summer whether Trump policies will increase wages for American worker.

Trump could seal off the border right now with zero illegal immigration and we still have all the millions that the previous administration allow it.

It is laughable for Democrats to recommend harsh punishments for employers. They would not fear that because they know how soft our criminal justice system is. And of course it was the Democrat who made it so soft.

If we truly need people willing to work for lower wages of Americans, then a guest worker programs would be the solution. But such a program is meaningless until we control the border.

People don’t immigrate illegally because the United States allows no legal immigration. People immigrate illegally because they don’t want to be bothered with the legal process. So why would they go through any guest worker process?

I’ve never heard anyone to cut my grass. I started cutting grass when I was 11 and now I’m 62 so I’ve been doing it for 51 years. It’s not exactly skilled work.

My Son on the other hand, hires a landscape company to vote his law. His reasoning is that, he makes so much money programming project manager that it would be foolish to spend that valuable time on cutting grass. He will spend an hour and a half or five days a week working out.

He has every right to make that decision, I just don’t want to subsidize it if it means also allowing human traffickers drug smuggler, and rapists to come over the border.

We also subsidize it by providing welfare benefits to low paid workers. But that applies to both illegal aliens and Americans who are minimum wage.

What does all that mean? Getting your grass mowed by someone else is a luxury and if it winds up costing a little more, then I’m not sure I’m going to be upset about that.

A much better approach is to strengthen the dollar so that higher wages are not an issue.
If we are going to dislodge American made goods with cheaply made foreign goods then we need another safeguard in place....make those goods subject to a minimum quality standard...watch how fast the prices even up.

 

[struth]

How many times and how many ways are you going to excuse the employers that hire illegals

You’d almost think that you don’t want to solve this

Joey Xiden and Harris excused them and the people that voted for their policy of not going after people that knowingly hire illegals

It’s rather partisan of you to come here now, after voting for that, and claiming you want the be tough on employers

 

[justoffal]

You miss the point

If they use E-verify… they can’t hire the people they want to hire

Correct.... They will find ways not to use it trust me.

 

[Lesh]

Joey Xiden and Harris excused them and the people that voted for their policy of not going after people that knowingly hire illegals

It’s rather partisan of you to come here now, after voting for that, and claiming you want the be tough on employers

I have ALWAYS advocated that we be tough on employers

And we never have been

Because no one really wants to do the hard thing that will solve this

 

[struth]

I have ALWAYS advocated that we be tough on employers

And we never have been

Because no one really wants to do the hard thing that will solve this

If you voted for Harris you didn't....she said during her campaign she wouldn't change a thing about the Xiden admin.

The Xiden admin changed the rules, and would not go after employers that knowingly hire illegals.

Biden Dismantles the Ban on Hiring Illegal Immigrants​

Biden Dismantles the Ban on Hiring Illegal Immigrants

National Review, October 15, 2021

cis.org

A new memo from DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas on worksite enforcement of immigration laws garnered some media and political attention because it prohibits ICE from conducting worksite raids for illegal aliens. But the memo is more than just the latest in a series of anti-immigration-enforcement directives by this administration. Rather, it represents the Left’s rejection of the very concept of illegal employment.
Mayorkas’s new memo, on the other hand, is concerned almost exclusively with protecting illegal-immigrant workers. The goal, as Mayorkas writes on the first page, is to “maximize the impact of our efforts by focusing on unscrupulous employers who exploit the vulnerability of undocumented workers” [my emphasis], mentioning specifically “illegal acts ranging from the payment of substandard wages to imposing unsafe working conditions and facilitating human trafficking and child exploitation.”

Those are all bad things, of course, and immigration enforcement is right to target them. But they are merely symptoms of the underlying problem, which is widespread employment of illegal immigrants. Address that, and these violations become much rarer.

The memo’s exclusive focus on “exploitative employers” ignores the fact that the majority of illegal-alien workers are employed on the books (with fake or stolen Social Security numbers), paid above the minimum wage, and work in conditions no different from their citizen and legal-immigrant co-workers.

 

[Lesh]

If you voted for Harris you didn't....she said during her campaign she wouldn't change a thing about the Xiden admin.

The Xiden admin changed the rules, and would not go after employers that knowingly hire illegals.

Biden Dismantles the Ban on Hiring Illegal Immigrants​

Biden Dismantles the Ban on Hiring Illegal Immigrants

National Review, October 15, 2021

cis.org

A new memo from DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas on worksite enforcement of immigration laws garnered some media and political attention because it prohibits ICE from conducting worksite raids for illegal aliens. But the memo is more than just the latest in a series of anti-immigration-enforcement directives by this administration. Rather, it represents the Left’s rejection of the very concept of illegal employment.
Mayorkas’s new memo, on the other hand, is concerned almost exclusively with protecting illegal-immigrant workers. The goal, as Mayorkas writes on the first page, is to “maximize the impact of our efforts by focusing on unscrupulous employers who exploit the vulnerability of undocumented workers” [my emphasis], mentioning specifically “illegal acts ranging from the payment of substandard wages to imposing unsafe working conditions and facilitating human trafficking and child exploitation.”

Those are all bad things, of course, and immigration enforcement is right to target them. But they are merely symptoms of the underlying problem, which is widespread employment of illegal immigrants. Address that, and these violations become much rarer.

The memo’s exclusive focus on “exploitative employers” ignores the fact that the majority of illegal-alien workers are employed on the books (with fake or stolen Social Security numbers), paid above the minimum wage, and work in conditions no different from their citizen and legal-immigrant co-workers.

No President

NONE

Has been tough on employers

 

[Lesh]

Ya know how many employers Trump prosecuted in 2019?

ELEVEN

Trump’s Crackdown on Illegal Immigration: 11 Employers Prosecuted in the Past Year (Published 2019)

A total of 11 employers have been prosecuted for hiring undocumented workers over the past 12 months.

www.nytimes.com