The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[P F Tinmore]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

What siege would that be then, as I cant see any siege anywhere in Palestine.

First stop sending terrorists out pretending to be farmers and fishermen

They did and the Palestinians breached them straight away by sending out smugglers and bombers.

No Israel wants an end to the violence, terrorism and illegal weapons so its people can live in safety

Occupations always have problems with security. It comes with the territory.

They can stop the violence any time they want by ending the occupation.

 

[Daniyel]

2007 is the year of no excuses, not that any excuse could be valid for the actions the Palestinians had taken before..it is the "even if so" you never want to hear.
Just like your recent posts here, you are dis/misinformed and think you know enough to "pick a side"

I'm not picking any sides and I have no clue what you are talking about with 2007. Care to explain that one a little further?

I will say that in 2008, there was a 4 month ceasefire and the rocket fire went down to virtually zero. But that all ended when the Israeli's launched a commando raid into Gaza to kill a few government officials. Which just shows, if Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be breaking the ceasefires.

Exactly, lack of information.
Israeli disengagement from Gaza - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

What siege would that be then, as I cant see any siege anywhere in Palestine.

First stop sending terrorists out pretending to be farmers and fishermen

They did and the Palestinians breached them straight away by sending out smugglers and bombers.

No Israel wants an end to the violence, terrorism and illegal weapons so its people can live in safety

Occupations always have problems with security. It comes with the territory.

They can stop the violence any time they want by ending the occupation.

But to you the occupation means the whole of Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

What siege would that be then, as I cant see any siege anywhere in Palestine.

First stop sending terrorists out pretending to be farmers and fishermen

They did and the Palestinians breached them straight away by sending out smugglers and bombers.

No Israel wants an end to the violence, terrorism and illegal weapons so its people can live in safety

Occupations always have problems with security. It comes with the territory.

They can stop the violence any time they want by ending the occupation.

But to you the occupation means the whole of Israel.

I have seen no proof to the contrary.

 

[Phoenall]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

Israelis have no room to ***** about who the Palestinians elect.

Look at the assholes they elect.

Never said they did, I just pointed out that the Palestinians made their bed when they elected hamas. Now they need a new bed

 

[Phoenall]

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

No because they were expecting Israel to foot the bill for shipping, and when Israel refused the produce was left to rot. The supplies they want happen to be nitrates that can be turned into explosives, they wont accept non nitrate fertilisers. No hamas has destroyed 1/3 of palestines farmland. Fishermen can fish inside the lines drawn

Read the Egyptian brokered ceasefire terms

 

[Phoenall]

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

What siege would that be then, as I cant see any siege anywhere in Palestine.

First stop sending terrorists out pretending to be farmers and fishermen

They did and the Palestinians breached them straight away by sending out smugglers and bombers.

No Israel wants an end to the violence, terrorism and illegal weapons so its people can live in safety

Occupations always have problems with security. It comes with the territory.

They can stop the violence any time they want by ending the occupation.

But to you the occupation means the whole of Israel.

I have seen no proof to the contrary.

Not quite, what you mean is you don't want to see any proof because it would destroy your POV

 

[flacaltenn]

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Supplies for a furniture factory would arrive intact and EXPORTS would not be subject to such high scrutiny.
It's an INSPECTION -- not a confiscation. The fishing problem is because it's been demonstrated that fishing boats were unloading embargoed goods... So there is a boundary line where open fishing is allowed and I imagine this would also dissappear with a RESPONSIBLE govt in place in Gaza..

 

[flacaltenn]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

Israelis have no room to ***** about who the Palestinians elect.

Look at the assholes they elect.

THat's right PF -- MANY are assholes. Unfortunately that is not OUR decision or even Israel's decision and YOU just have to learn to live with it..

Personally I'm hoping that the Palis underestimated the sad and dire consequences of allowing Hamas in. And they need the James Carville type question of "Are your lives better off NOW -- with Hamas in charge"..

Live with what THEY choose.. And realize their choices have consequences. There's a mental condition called co-dependence --- where one gets soooo wrapped up in the bad choices of loved ones, that their self-esteem, pleasure and actions become enslaved to the errant actions of their loved one.

I'm seeing a LOT of co-dependence amongst the current crop of Pali supporters. You can't HELP a person in trouble until you realize that THEIR CHOICES and actions are THEIRS. And their consequences are not YOURS..

 

[toastman]

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

 

[toastman]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up.

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

Israelis have no room to ***** about who the Palestinians elect.

Look at the assholes they elect.

It's kind of hard to criticize the 'Palestinians' for the Islamic war monger neanderthals that they 'elected', considering they didn't have much of a choice.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up.

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

Israelis have no room to ***** about who the Palestinians elect.

Look at the assholes they elect.

It's kind of hard to criticize the 'Palestinians' for the Islamic war monger neanderthals that they 'elected', considering they didn't have much of a choice.

They did have a choice in 2006 and they chose Islamist Hamas.

 

[Billo_Really]

Exactly, lack of information.

Now that you have taken care of my "information" deficiency and it is no longer "lacking", my comments are as follows...

Israeli disengagement from Gaza - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Israel did not disengage from Gaza. They still maintain "effective control" over 80% of the area. That's not leaving!

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The "Battle" happened because...

From your link:
Under pressure of the international sanctions, Fatah developed a plan to replace the Hamas government.​

...so don't stick that on Hamas.

List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The suicide attacks ended in 2008.

Again, from your link:
A 2007 study of Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (September 2000 through August 2005) found that 39.9 percent of the suicide attacks were carried out by Hamas, 26.4 percent by Fatah, 25.7 percent by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), 5.4 percent by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and 2.7 percent by other organizations. The first suicide attack was carried out in 1989 and the attacks stopped in 2008.​

So you can't blame Hamas now, for something that ended 7 years ago. Also, why are you singling out Hamas? Fatah did almost as many suicide attacks, but you say nothing about them.

Is it because Fatah has sold themselves out to be Israel's little dog *****?

 

[Phoenall]

Exactly, lack of information.

Now that you have taken care of my "information" deficiency and it is no longer "lacking", my comments are as follows...

Israeli disengagement from Gaza - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Israel did not disengage from Gaza. They still maintain "effective control" over 80% of the area. That's not leaving!

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The "Battle" happened because...

From your link:
Under pressure of the international sanctions, Fatah developed a plan to replace the Hamas government.​

...so don't stick that on Hamas.

List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The suicide attacks ended in 2008.

Again, from your link:
A 2007 study of Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada (September 2000 through August 2005) found that 39.9 percent of the suicide attacks were carried out by Hamas, 26.4 percent by Fatah, 25.7 percent by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), 5.4 percent by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and 2.7 percent by other organizations. The first suicide attack was carried out in 1989 and the attacks stopped in 2008.​

So you can't blame Hamas now, for something that ended 7 years ago. Also, why are you singling out Hamas? Fatah did almost as many suicide attacks, but you say nothing about them.

Is it because Fatah has sold themselves out to be Israel's little dog *****?

NOPE wrong again as in 2005 Israel gave up all control and handed gaza on a plate to the Palestinians. No blockade, no occupation and no presence inside gaza for a further 18 months.

And hamas retaliated by mass murdering the children of fatah members.


Just over half as many is not nearly as many in the real world

 

[flacaltenn]

Battle of Gaza 2007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The "Battle" happened because...

From your link:
Under pressure of the international sanctions, Fatah developed a plan to replace the Hamas government.​

...so don't stick that on Hamas.

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas... BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

 

[flacaltenn]

It's kind of hard to criticize the 'Palestinians' for the Islamic war monger neanderthals that they 'elected', considering they didn't have much of a choice.

I think it was less of election than a wager on the winner of the inevitable Civil War..

 

[Billo_Really]

NOPE wrong again as in 2005 Israel gave up all control and handed gaza on a plate to the Palestinians. No blockade, no occupation and no presence inside gaza for a further 18 months.

And hamas retaliated by mass murdering the children of fatah members.


Just over half as many is not nearly as many in the real world

No, they did not give up all control. From Daniyel's link...

"Under the Revised Disengagement Plan adopted on June 6, 2004...Israel will continue to control Gaza's coastline and airspace and reserves the right to undertake military operations when necessary."

"After Israel's withdrawal, the Palestinians were given control over the Gaza Strip, except for the borders, the airspace and the territorial waters."​

That's not leaving!

In addition, Israel continued their harassment and extra-judicial killings of Hamas members...

"On 26 September, Israel assassinated Islamic Jihad commander Mohammad Khalil and his bodyguard with a missile strike; on the 29 September Israel closed all Hamas charities on the West Bank, and as part of a 5-day offensive fired artillery into the Gaza Strip."​

Furthermore, Israel reneged on most of its promises from the disengagement agreement...

A British Parliamentary commission, summing up the situation eight months later, found that the Rafah crossing agreement worked efficiently, that from January–April 2006, the Karni crossing was closed 45% of the time, and severe limitations were in place on exports from Gaza, with, according to OCHA figures, only 1,500 of 8,500 tons of produce getting through; that they were informed most closures were unrelated to security issues in Gaza but either responses to violence in the West Bank or for no given reason. The promised transit of convoys between Gaza and the West Bank was not honoured;
​

Closures unrelated to security issues or for no given reason?

That's not giving up control!

 

[Billo_Really]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

You keep on mentioning fishermen and farmers being targeted by the IDF. Do you have a link to these allegations?

 

[toastman]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know that you're a Palestinian ass kisser?