The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[flacaltenn]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel. Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel. Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel.​

Really? They have been engaged in fake peace talks for over 20 years only to take it up the behind from Israel.

That is what Israel wants. Someone who will just talk and talk while they steal the rest of the land.

 

[flacaltenn]

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

 

[Billo_Really]

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel.

What, by selling out the Pals to be Israel's little *****?

Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

And Hamas members today, no longer follow their charter.

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

If you can't see how wrong it is to shoot at someone fishing in their own territorial waters, then you have lost all sense of humanity.

 

[Billo_Really]

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

And if a woman gets raped, it's her fault because she was wearing a red dress.

 

[flacaltenn]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel. Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel.​

Really? They have been engaged in fake peace talks for over 20 years only to take it up the behind from Israel.

That is what Israel wants. Someone who will just talk and talk while they steal the rest of the land.

Is that your strategy on this forum? To just talk and talk until chances for negotiations and peace are gone? Haven't been any OPEN serious negotiations since the Pali Civil War? Who's fault is that? No functioning govt -- no talkie-table.

 

[flacaltenn]

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

And if a woman gets raped, it's her fault because she was wearing a red dress.

WTF Billo?? I asked for specific examples of legitimate incoming goods disappearing during inspections at Ashdod.
SURELY the shippers of these imports could lodge HUGE legal cases in International Court. And the shipping insurance companies would be complaining up a storm. That's how international shipping and trade works..

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE​

Life is too short to learn anything.

Good choice.

 

[flacaltenn]

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

If you can't see how wrong it is to shoot at someone fishing in their own territorial waters, then you have lost all sense of humanity.[/QUOTE]

Shooting AT somebody is different than shooting somebody. If a one-man dingy HAD a radio tuned to local traffic -- I'm sure that would save the Israeli Coast Guard a couple shells. Works kinda like a radio...

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE​

Life is too short to learn anything.

Good choice.

I want to learn if the Israelis are STEALING goods bound for Gaza.. THAT'S what I want to learn.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel. Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel.​

Really? They have been engaged in fake peace talks for over 20 years only to take it up the behind from Israel.

That is what Israel wants. Someone who will just talk and talk while they steal the rest of the land.

Is that your strategy on this forum? To just talk and talk until chances for negotiations and peace are gone? Haven't been any OPEN serious negotiations since the Pali Civil War? Who's fault is that? No functioning govt -- no talkie-table.

The Zionist's goal for over a hundred years has been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They haven't budged an inch since then. So called peace talks have always been to waste time while Israel gobbles up the rest of Palestine.

Israel is too chicken to talk with anyone, like Hamas, who can see through that scam.

 

[toastman]

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

That's what I thought. All you got is a Press TV video as usual, but you cannot back up your claim. Why am I not surprised?

You know what I find really ironic Tinmore? You constantly trash Israeli sources, yet you have no problem using possibly the most biased, anti Israel full of shit Iranian owned media source.

 

[toastman]

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE --- just tell me what materials shipped to Gaza DISAPPEARED or were confiscated during inspection at AshDod.. Do you have ANY examples of that?
If not -- nothing else in this argument matters. What shut down the Gazan economy was the money flow being stopped from Iran and Saudi and many other places that were floating it..

I can't do propaganda vids. Life is too short. PLEASE​

Life is too short to learn anything.

Good choice.

The only thing anyone here can learn from you is bullshit Palestinian propaganda. You use these videos as a kind of smoke because of your inability to back up your claims.

Go ahead Billo -- YOU vote for Hamas...

Stop right there!

I don't vote for Hamas and I don't support Hamas. I am not involved in this conflict. What I am doing, is calling you out on the many lies you (and other Israeli kiss-asses) tell on a constant basis.

BTW Billo Bud -- you nailed it above. There are consequences of giving a international terrorist organization effective control of your govt. Did you think there shouldn't be?
Could ISIL or AQA be a legitimate vote without consequences?

You're defending the Likud Party. They're a terrorist organization. Their roots are in Irgun. A Jewish terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel. The IDF regularly shoots at Palestinian's fishing and farming. That's terrorism.

When you think about it, you've got to be pretty evil to shoot at someone fishing or farming. Yet that doesn't register a blip on your immoral radar, as you blame the Pals for "all" the problems.

OF COURSE -- the US and many other countries backed Fatah... Because Fatah essentially CREATED the PA and brought about the release of the Gaza to their authority. And the pre-election PA was making GREAT progress in organizing a national identity.

It's APPALLING that the Palis sacrificed REAL progress for their cause in choosing Hamas. Did you read the Hamas PLATFORM that PF published? It's a battle screed --- not a plan for Palestinian Nationalism. The end game for that is exactly what happened when Jordan EJECTED the PLO..

The mistake on the part of the US was to PUSH the election date earlier than the PA wanted it to be. Because Bush and Rice wanted a chance to make real progress towards peace and Pali Nationalism before they left office. Had Abbas called the elections on HIS terms -- results could have been much different.

Of coarse you backed Fatah?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

Did you know at one time, you and your ilk thought of Fatah, the same way you think of Hamas now?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel. Hard to negotiate with an Arafat that SAYS he represents the Palis in between airline hijackings.. Quite different to negotiate with an Abbas who is a true Founding Father of Pali nationalism.

Hamas's heart is not in the HolyLand. They are off wrecking havoc in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, maybe the Sinai.
The Irgun guys are dead. So is Yasser.. What matters is who sits at the table TODAY..

Sometimes when you operate a coastal blockade, you have to enforce it. How many fishermen have been killed in the past 5 or 6 years?

That's probably true.. But it's the admiration of what Fatah did to advance the Pali cause and how they did it that changed my mind and the heart of Israel.​

Really? They have been engaged in fake peace talks for over 20 years only to take it up the behind from Israel.

That is what Israel wants. Someone who will just talk and talk while they steal the rest of the land.

Is that your strategy on this forum? To just talk and talk until chances for negotiations and peace are gone? Haven't been any OPEN serious negotiations since the Pali Civil War? Who's fault is that? No functioning govt -- no talkie-table.

The Zionist's goal for over a hundred years has been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They haven't budged an inch since then. So called peace talks have always been to waste time while Israel gobbles up the rest of Palestine.

Israel is too chicken to talk with anyone, like Hamas, who can see through that scam.

Where do you come up with this drivel ?

 

[flacaltenn]

OK -- no thanks to Tinmore or Monte or Billo -- but I've read what I can in a limited amount of time about WHAT goods have been or are blockaded. It's almost impossible to determine. AT TIMES -- the rules have been ambiguous or whimsical. For instance -- blocking canned fruit -- but not canned fish..

I am NOT in favor of any long-term blockade that ambiguous.. It is cruel and unnecessary for the security of Israel. I am however in favor of continuing A blockade. As long as embargoed goods are restricted to items that have TRUE dual military use or military use. And that COULD for instance include some building materials and tools such as used in building those tunnels. At times, Israel has left building projects up to the discretion of the PA. And that would be a smart move. So that civilian buildings and infrastructure COULD be restored by rationing concrete and steel on a project by project basis and getting accounting for it's use. .

You are not gonna dislodge Hamas by torturing the average Gazan. No more than our failed 12 year blockade of Iraq endeared the US to the average Iraqi.. SEE ---- I just need facts and truth. Not that hard -- was it PF?? Is it Billo???

But at the same time -- these flotillas that occasionally turn violent are not effective either. It's street theatre -- not effective protest. Just get the facts out, cut the propaganda shit, and work for a REASONABLE agreement. The Palis will dislodge Hamas when REASON prevails and they can see clearly that militancy is not gonna solve IMMEDIATE issues such as this.

Now it's time for the OTHER side to tell me where I'm wrong..

 

[Roudy]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Occupation shmuckupation. The blockade will be lifted when the bloodthirsty savages end their terrorism and desire to destroy the Jewish state. More tough talk from big mouth with the small IQ.

 

[Roudy]

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

That's what I thought. All you got is a Press TV video as usual, but you cannot back up your claim. Why am I not surprised?

You know what I find really ironic Tinmore? You constantly trash Israeli sources, yet you have no problem using possibly the most biased, anti Israel full of shit Iranian owned media source.

Another Pali Nazi supporter gets exposed. Funny part is the complain about the "Hasbara" yet they routinely quote garbage sources like Iranian French Press TV. What's the flavor nowadays? Rwanda or Ethiopian? I'll take mine with almond milk. LOL

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK -- no thanks to Tinmore or Monte or Billo -- but I've read what I can in a limited amount of time about WHAT goods have been or are blockaded. It's almost impossible to determine. AT TIMES -- the rules have been ambiguous or whimsical. For instance -- blocking canned fruit -- but not canned fish..

I am NOT in favor of any long-term blockade that ambiguous.. It is cruel and unnecessary for the security of Israel. I am however in favor of continuing A blockade. As long as embargoed goods are restricted to items that have TRUE dual military use or military use. And that COULD for instance include some building materials and tools such as used in building those tunnels. At times, Israel has left building projects up to the discretion of the PA. And that would be a smart move. So that civilian buildings and infrastructure COULD be restored by rationing concrete and steel on a project by project basis and getting accounting for it's use. .

You are not gonna dislodge Hamas by torturing the average Gazan. No more than our failed 12 year blockade of Iraq endeared the US to the average Iraqi.. SEE ---- I just need facts and truth. Not that hard -- was it PF?? Is it Billo???

But at the same time -- these flotillas that occasionally turn violent are not effective either. It's street theatre -- not effective protest. Just get the facts out, cut the propaganda shit, and work for a REASONABLE agreement. The Palis will dislodge Hamas when REASON prevails and they can see clearly that militancy is not gonna solve IMMEDIATE issues such as this.

Now it's time for the OTHER side to tell me where I'm wrong..

OK, but what does the denial of the Palestinians to export bell peppers, furniture, or clothing have to do with Israel's security. Particularly when Israel is only defending its occupation and colonization.

Put this in context.

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

Can you back all this up ?

That's what I thought. All you got is a Press TV video as usual, but you cannot back up your claim. Why am I not surprised?

You know what I find really ironic Tinmore? You constantly trash Israeli sources, yet you have no problem using possibly the most biased, anti Israel full of shit Iranian owned media source.

That's what I thought. All you got is a Press TV video​

Typical propaganda ploy. Slime the source while ignoring the content. If you find something that is not true point it out.

If you think I am just trashing Israeli sources just say so and I will point out their lies.

 

[Billo_Really]

WTF Billo?? I asked for specific examples of legitimate incoming goods disappearing during inspections at Ashdod.
SURELY the shippers of these imports could lodge HUGE legal cases in International Court. And the shipping insurance companies would be complaining up a storm. That's how international shipping and trade works..

That's not the point. It is illegal to stop a ship in international waters, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation. There's a word for when that occurs and it's called "piracy". And since Israel has no legal jurisdiction in Gazan territorial waters, it has no right to stop any ship whatsoever, no matter what cargo it happens to be carrying.