The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[Billo_Really]

2007 is the year of no excuses, not that any excuse could be valid for the actions the Palestinians had taken before..it is the "even if so" you never want to hear.
Just like your recent posts here, you are dis/misinformed and think you know enough to "pick a side"

I'm not picking any sides and I have no clue what you are talking about with 2007. Care to explain that one a little further?

I will say that in 2008, there was a 4 month ceasefire and the rocket fire went down to virtually zero. But that all ended when the Israeli's launched a commando raid into Gaza to kill a few government officials. Which just shows, if Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be breaking the ceasefires.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Yeah, yeah, slime Hamas.

Who was Israel's boogyman before Hamas?

The ceasefire did stop the shooting but the reason for the shooting they left in place. That is pretty dumb.

You seem to be lacking historical context.

 

[flacaltenn]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

 

[P F Tinmore]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

 

[toastman]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

 

[montelatici]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

 

[toastman]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Yeah, yeah, slime Hamas.

Who was Israel's boogyman before Hamas?

The ceasefire did stop the shooting but the reason for the shooting they left in place. That is pretty dumb.

You seem to be lacking historical context.

I'm not lacking very much historical context. The PLO was booted from both Jordan and Lebanon.. Israel didn't do that. But the PLO EVENTUALLY entered into US brokered negotiations that led to the PA. THAT was the high point of the Palestinian cause. Israel turned over the Gaza to the PA -- set in process plans to normalize commerce and borders. Had a TWO SIDED conversation leading to good things for the PALIs. Hamas showed up and ended all that -- believing that a single "election" gave them a mandate for perpetual tyrannical rule in the Gaza.

Israel probably won't make that mistake again. Until such time that there is VOICE for the Palis in a recognized govt -- things are not gonna change for them.. Go lobby to POLL Palestinians on what they value..

Do they choose Intifada over all the things that other nations value. Things that make life easier and happier?
Could be a VERY effective Palestinian State set up for a 2 state solution. Egypt/Jordan might even kick in some land and resources. Corridors between W.Bank and Gaza are not that difficult to imagine.

"Supporters" like you --- doesn't matter what you want. Does it? It's their choices.. Go fund some polls and ask them..

 

[flacaltenn]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

For YEARS eh?? Was that BEFORE Hamas PURGED the government there? Where is this proposal for an independent body?? Why don't they do it themselves and just let in ICC inspectors??

 

[montelatici]

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

 

[Hossfly]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Yeah, yeah, slime Hamas.

Who was Israel's boogyman before Hamas?

The ceasefire did stop the shooting but the reason for the shooting they left in place. That is pretty dumb.

You seem to be lacking historical context.

Regardless of what Tinmore is saying, he is the one who is going to lead Hamas this time, flacaltenn
Israeli Officials Hamas Close to Pre-2014 War Capabilities - Breitbart?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza.​

Bogus concept. The Palestinians have had on the table for years to have inspections of all imports by an independent body. They have not rejected the inspection of their imports at all.

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

 

[Phoenall]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

What siege would that be then, as I cant see any siege anywhere in Palestine.

First stop sending terrorists out pretending to be farmers and fishermen

They did and the Palestinians breached them straight away by sending out smugglers and bombers.

No Israel wants an end to the violence, terrorism and illegal weapons so its people can live in safety

 

[Phoenall]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Wrong again the blockade went on because the Palestinians fired 2000 rockets at Israel, mainly at areas with children. That is the only collective punishment you will find in the conflict. It went on before the election was held.

How about a link from a reliable non partisan source then showing that Israel is dictating who the Palestinians can elect

Get this through your head the legal blockade and occupation wont end until the Palestinians stop all violence and act like human beings

 

[Phoenall]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

 

[Phoenall]

No,THIS is a bogus concept. What goes into Gaza can potentially affect Israel. Not to mention they are at war. So if one side has the ability to inspect shipments going into enemy territory, than be it.
Hamas is more then welcome to try and inspect Israel bound shipments or to stop them.

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

No because they were expecting Israel to foot the bill for shipping, and when Israel refused the produce was left to rot. The supplies they want happen to be nitrates that can be turned into explosives, they wont accept non nitrate fertilisers. No hamas has destroyed 1/3 of palestines farmland. Fishermen can fish inside the lines drawn

 

[P F Tinmore]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.

Israel and Egypt would be stone-stupid NOT to inspect cargo and traffic going into Gaza. And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ?? Maybe the people of Gaza misunderstood the obvious consequences of choosing militant terrorists as their "govt". Seen the Human Rights record of Hamas lately??

They now have ZERO CHOICE as to who leads them.. Which is why I put up that poll. Plenty of other confirming evidence that the Gazans now know they screwed up..

THere IS no occupation of Gaza. And the West Bank is STILL available for discussion with RESPONSIBLE parties. Ones that dont have a "party platform" of strife, struggle, deceit, and tyranny. I want the PALIs to speak out. Kinda tired of fat asses with death wishes sitting at keyboards GUESSING as to what they want..

And what kind of "democratic election" results in a violent PURGE and then NO MORE ELECTIONS ??

Perhaps you do not understand what happened.

Start @ 40:20

Hey they elected hamas so now they have to unelect them and put someone else in their place

Israelis have no room to ***** about who the Palestinians elect.

Look at the assholes they elect.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel occupies Gaza and controls it, is what you are saying.

How can Israel occupy Gaza if there is not a single Israeli there?

They control their water and air in order to protect its civilians. It's that simple. Not the same as an occupation.

So, controlling the borders, air space, territorial sea and occasionally sending in troops to kill thousands of women and children is not occupation. That means the Nazis were not occupying the Warsaw Ghetto. LOL

Israel no longer interferes in the day to day operation of Gaza -- Except for insisting that cargo coming in gets INSPECTED and then allowed into Gaza.. Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.. Not an occupation at all. Is the US OCCUPYING RUSSIA OR IRAN today. After all they are both under US sanctions and trade restrictions right now..

Did we OCCUPY IRAQ for the 12 years this country stupidly attempted to "contain Saddam". NOTHING was going in or out and Clinton bombed them almost daily.. Were they "occupied" during those years?

It's an EMBARGO.. Supported by MANY nations besides Israel..

Tell me what "Humanitarian Aid" or commercial freight has been DENIED after inspection.​

90% of Palestinian factories are closed do to Israel. Much of this is food production, furniture, and clothing. The agricultural sector cannot get supplies or export their produce due to the siege. Not to mention that Israel has destroyed 1/3 of Palestine's farmland. Fishermen are not allowed to fish.

So, why do the liars call this security?

No because they were expecting Israel to foot the bill for shipping, and when Israel refused the produce was left to rot. The supplies they want happen to be nitrates that can be turned into explosives, they wont accept non nitrate fertilisers. No hamas has destroyed 1/3 of palestines farmland. Fishermen can fish inside the lines drawn