The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[Daniyel]

First of all I'm against Socialism, next let me inform you it's all made by Israel including the electricity provided to Gaza, my pocket, does this count an international aid or perhaps Israel's property? (In case you dont get it - Hamas didn't bend a finger for that)

Now you just happened to say something very interesting, technically it's "out of" but I assume you meant "by" ---
"people who have no legal right to be in the area"
Why does Israelis have no right to be in this area?

Gaza isn't Israel.

You have no right doing whatever you ******* please, on someone else's property.

Hold on horsey, you don't make the rules yet.
Is there any legit ground to forbid Israelis from entering Gaza?

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

 

[Roudy]

Daniyel is Israeli, not American, so I don't think he can vote for you. Maybe you can get Trump to pick you as his running mate.

I was a Republican for 20 years; then I grew up.

I was a life long Republican too.

Bush cured me of that.

Denial is not a river in Egypt, but for you Pali Nazi supporters, it is.

Support for Israel runs extremely strong across both parties and an overwhelming majority of public.

House UNANIMOUSLY Stands Up for Israel Against Hamas

US Senate Passes Bipartisan Resolution In Support of Israel

Senate Resolution Unanimously Welcomes Netanyahu - 02/28/2015

Gallup Poll: Seven in Ten Americans Continue To View Israel Favorably

New Poll Shows Strong American Support For Israel

**** Obama!

 

[aris2chat]

What does Israel have to do with Hamas corruption or Tinmore's assessments? Read the previous posts...

You said they're carrying a war against Israel. If they were, why is Israel the one breaking the ceasefires?

There's something wrong with that picture.

You missed the part where you suppose to relate to actual facts .
1.Israel didn't break any ceasefire,we went through this several times in the past.
2.Theoretically speaking - if Israel DID break ALL ceasefires in the past, how does it conjugate with Hamas's aim to launch indiscriminate war against all Israel's Jews? - there is no question of ceasefire when your enemy intending to eradicate you, and need a small break to get stronger.
3.Hamas is a corrupted terrorist organization (yes, a terrorist organization can also become corrupted) - this is the subject of the debate.
4.Hamas is not intending to protect the Gazans, not even in the near future IMHO, Tinmore claimed differently - even different from Hamas themselves.

Hamas has been the one rejecting negotiation with either the PA, Egypt or Israel. It has been the unreasonable block to peace.
When so many gazans would leave gaza if they could, you know they do not have support from the masses. Most palestinians want some sort of peace with Israel. Hamas is still in support with terrorists in the sinai against the Egyptian government. Egypt has removed hundreds of tunnels and bull dozed thousands of homes in the sinai. They have had crossing open only a few days each year for the last few years. "Hamas" not welcome!
Hamas has blocked elections. In the PA, the government shut down hamas college candidates and in the last few days arrest dozens of hamas terrorist and fighters.

 

[Phoenall]

What does Israel have to do with Hamas corruption or Tinmore's assessments? Read the previous posts...

You said they're carrying a war against Israel. If they were, why is Israel the one breaking the ceasefires?

There's something wrong with that picture.

Because they are not, they are responding to Palestinian breaches of the ceasefire. Just look at the facts and see how the Palestinians will encroach on the Israel positions to incite a response and then claim that the IDF fired on them for no reason. You being consumed with Nazi Jew Hatred believe the Palestinian side because you don't want to lose that Jew Hatred.

 

[Phoenall]

First of all I'm against Socialism, next let me inform you it's all made by Israel including the electricity provided to Gaza, my pocket, does this count an international aid or perhaps Israel's property? (In case you dont get it - Hamas didn't bend a finger for that)

Now you just happened to say something very interesting, technically it's "out of" but I assume you meant "by" ---
"people who have no legal right to be in the area"
Why does Israelis have no right to be in this area?

Gaza isn't Israel.

You have no right doing whatever you ******* please, on someone else's property.

Try reading the Geneva Conventions, and then try getting an appointment with your doctor about your all consuming Jew hatred

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel did not fail to maintain the sewage system, they left and gave control to the palestinians.
Israel did not fail to pay for fuel to keep the electric generators on. That was a dispute between hamas and the PA.
Israel did not close the crossing to egypt or dig illegal tunnels into the sinai. Hamas did.
Tons of supplies get delivered to gaza by Israel but hamas does not distribute items till after expiration date.
Building supplies are taken by hamas for tunnels instead of repair of buildings, many stolen from UN and NGOs.

Palestinians need to face the fact that their own have more to do with their situation and misery than Israel does. They need to fix their own problems instead of blaming Israel for everything.

If there was no blockade, I would agree with you.

 

[montelatici]

Israel is the only block to peace. Israel does not want a sovereign Palestinian state.

"The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview."

Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com

 

[Daniyel]

Israel did not fail to maintain the sewage system, they left and gave control to the palestinians.
Israel did not fail to pay for fuel to keep the electric generators on. That was a dispute between hamas and the PA.
Israel did not close the crossing to egypt or dig illegal tunnels into the sinai. Hamas did.
Tons of supplies get delivered to gaza by Israel but hamas does not distribute items till after expiration date.
Building supplies are taken by hamas for tunnels instead of repair of buildings, many stolen from UN and NGOs.

Palestinians need to face the fact that their own have more to do with their situation and misery than Israel does. They need to fix their own problems instead of blaming Israel for everything.

If there was no blockade, I would agree with you.

2007 is the year of no excuses, not that any excuse could be valid for the actions the Palestinians had taken before..it is the "even if so" you never want to hear.
Just like your recent posts here, you are dis/misinformed and think you know enough to "pick a side"

 

[Phoenall]

Israel is the only block to peace. Israel does not want a sovereign Palestinian state.

"The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview."

Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com

And yet 138 nations recognise the state of Palestine, now they want them to negotiate peace and mutual borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is the only block to peace. Israel does not want a sovereign Palestinian state.

"The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview."

Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com

And yet 138 nations recognise the state of Palestine, now they want them to negotiate peace and mutual borders.

There will not be a negotiated peace. Those assholes have been yacking at each other for over 20 years and peace is farther away now than when they started.

Peace will only come when the world decides to enforce international law (which is avoided at all cost in the fake peace talks) and UN resolutions.

This is the goal of the flotillas, BDS, etc..

 

[Phoenall]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

The one they agreed to and signed was exactly the same as the one they turned down, so what is your point ?

 

[Phoenall]

Israel is the only block to peace. Israel does not want a sovereign Palestinian state.

"The prospect of a Palestinian state is nil so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stays in office, Netanyahu said in a Monday interview."

Netanyahu No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com

And yet 138 nations recognise the state of Palestine, now they want them to negotiate peace and mutual borders.

There will not be a negotiated peace. Those assholes have been yacking at each other for over 20 years and peace is farther away now than when they started.

Peace will only come when the world decides to enforce international law (which is avoided at all cost in the fake peace talks) and UN resolutions.

This is the goal of the flotillas, BDS, etc..

And they will need to start with the Palestinians who constantly breach International law and UN resolutions with your support and encouragement



The role of the flotillas is to smuggle more illegal weapons into gaza and BDS is just a RACIST CON

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

 

[Roudy]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

The first thing you learn about these so called Pali supporters is they don't really care about the Palestinians. They just want the Jewish state to be destroyed and Islam to prevail. That's why the Arabs who are responsible for their plight in the first place, will not do anything but to keep the conflict going.

 

[Daniyel]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

No need to panic Flac, this is nothing more then a 4-5 propaganda-debating techniques.
Take a closer look at Tinmore's posts and buy yourself a beer on me if they are not being followed by these principles:

1.Complete obtuseness, in a way where every post Tinmore makes you won't get any sort of coherent answer to subject nor the previous questions, just a blurry respond barely attached to the topic and..
2. Complete denial of presented evidence, not even indirectly relate to it (Along with Complete obtuseness) - Only Tinmore's sources (are considered credible for him, and so he present them as credible for everyone even if they are not) while he can pick the same sources he denied at different time and claim its credible because so it suits his case...into..
3.The Big Lie - Its a complete cycle of the same no-lessons-learned type of arguments even if he was unable to answer them before, so he just repeat everything all over again to imply its actually true, or even partially true...when its a big lie..that you can't address because he...
4.Avoid the question that is asked, by answering a question he wants.. and going back up..

Its pretty hard getting down to the point when there are over hundred techniques but everyone would be able to recognize these four in every post he makes, these can pretty much summarize the classic Tinmore's techniques, if you are interested in more feel free to ask me, I'm studying him.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's an example of where Gazans might value ports and commerce over perpetual war..

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas Wants Ceasefire - The Washington Institute for Near East Policy

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel and instead continues to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Less known is a crucial fact: the people of Gaza are solidly against these Hamas policies. Indeed, by a very large majority, they oppose Hamas rule altogether.

These findings are based on a June 15-17 survey by a highly respected Palestinian pollster, who conducted face-to-face interviews throughout Gaza using standard random geographical probability sampling. The poll included 450 Gazans, yielding a margin of error of approximately 4 percent. This is the only credible Palestinian poll taken since the mid-June West Bank kidnapping incident, Israel's subsequent searches and arrests, and the start of the current crisis (for more on the survey, see PolicyWatch 2276, "New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too").

Seriously -- Is this REAL??? If so, Hamas has a reason to keep impeding "democracy"..

Today's headlines are that Hamas has just rejected Egypt's offer of a ceasefire with Israel ​

What did that ceasefire say?

My understanding was that Israel could keep its siege, keep shooting farmers and fishermen, and keep bulldozing farmland while the Palestinians had to stop firing rockets.

If you have something different, I would like to see it.

You ditched the total reason I posted that poll to pick on Egypt's motivation for moderating a peace??
Puts you in a very special class of denial there PF. You apparently don't give a flying f-k about what Palestinians actually think.. The ones who are in the middle of the conflict and dodging bombs, bullets and an oppressive "govt"...

Point is -- you've got to be retarded to ignore the fact that REGARDLESS of what the proposal said -- THE MAJORITY OF GAZANS --- wanted the fighting to stop.. You are a plague to their cause with this kind of intentional ignorance..

I see that you don't have anything different so I must be correct.

Of course the Palestinians wanted to stop the war but they also wanted the siege lifted and they wanted Israel to stop shooting their farmers and fishermen.

They were supposed to address these issues in the final ceasefire (along with reconstruction) but that was almost a year ago and I don't see anything happening.

Israel wants to eliminate the symptoms while keeping the problems.

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

 

[Billo_Really]

The ceasefire stopped the shooting right? The "siege" is only gonna be addressed when the Palis have a chance to ditch Hamas. Now that they know HOW Hamas intends to drag them continuously into conflicts. The "siege" is because Hamas is not interested in checking cargo and allowing inspections and because the WORLD can't trust them to do that job.. They are TERRORISTS --- not administrators. And the poor Palis are LOCKED in with these murderous morons. Another few years of that -- and polls will be even more certain, that Palis need RESPONSIBLE and humane leadership to get most everything they want..

They have a hard problem getting any sympathy from the Arab neighbors with that kind of warlike leadership.
If you cared -- you'd work to get the voices heard of the people on the street. Not the propaganda sites that are focused on villifying Israel..

Israel is collectively punishing 1.5 million people because it didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election that is none of their god-damn business.

Collective punishment is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. You, nor Israel, has any right whatsoever, dictating to Gazans who they can have represent them. The only reason they are "terrorists", is because you (and Israel), won't let them be anything else. When they tried the non-violent method of a unity government, Israel made up some bullshit lies to launch an attack.

Get this through your ******* head, the violence won't end until the illegal and immoral blockade and occupation end.