The Green New Deal's Bad Science

[ReinyDays]

Let's take a look at China importing into the US. Due to shipping costs, the savings at retail in the US is about 20%. And this is when there are no restrictions like there is today at the ports. Yes, 20%. What happens if you place a 25% tariff on the item? And you give a series of tax breaks to the us factories.

Is that 20% average or universal? ... school shoes for children cost less today than in 1970 ... without adjusting for inflation ... you going to take shoes off little children's feet? ...

Tariffs as a revenue source is fine, but what you're talking about is protective tariffs ... we slap a tariff on Chinese shoes so the shoes made in America become more competitive, NOT cheaper ... that's inflationary ... and the Chinese just adjust their exchange rate ... not inflationary there ... who wins? ... where's the Nash Equilibrium? ... ha ha new buzz word, doesn't mean anything ...

 

[Vrenn]

You will increase what people are paying for things, piss off consumers and be accused of protectionism.

Fine, I can live with that. But the only ones that will really get pissed off is billionaire businesses and I can, fer sher, live with that.

 

[Vrenn]

Is that 20% average or universal? ... school shoes for children cost less today than in 1970 ... without adjusting for inflation ... you going to take shoes off little children's feet? ...

Since there are more good paying jobs to buy more shoes, I think it's worth it. You are going to come back with the labor shortage we have but it's for min wage jobs. Create good paying jobs and that 20% is a steal.

Tariffs as a revenue source is fine, but what you're talking about is protective tariffs ... we slap a tariff on Chinese shoes so the shoes made in America become more competitive, NOT cheaper ... that's inflationary ... and the Chinese just adjust their exchange rate ... not inflationary there ... who wins? ... where's the Nash Equilibrium? ... ha ha new buzz word, doesn't mean anything ...

The tariff is for those corporation that are still located in the "Safe" USA and maintains factories that used to be in the US. We should reward companies located in the us that actually pay a decent wage. More shoes gets produced in USA and more decent paying jobs are also created. Having to pay 20% more for shoes is a bargain at those prices.

 

[Vrenn]

Is that 20% average or universal? ... school shoes for children cost less today than in 1970 ... without adjusting for inflation ... you going to take shoes off little children's feet? ...

The shoes are made in china (or vietnam) are of substandard quality compared to the old Kids and Converse. The one thing we do in the US is to make quality products. Case in point, Zenith TVs which got killed off because they refused to relocate to China for manufacturing. The ONLY reason that there aren't any Zenith TVs around here is that they are no longer able to pick up all the stations. That, and they were all BW.

 

[Concerned American]

The shoes are made in china (or vietnam) are of substandard quality compared to the old Kids and Converse. The one thing we do in the US is to make quality products. Case in point, Zenith TVs which got killed off because they refused to relocate to China for manufacturing. The ONLY reason that there aren't any Zenith TVs around here is that they are no longer able to pick up all the stations. That, and they were all BW.

Our first color TV was a Zenith around 1964.

 

[ReinyDays]

Since there are more good paying jobs to buy more shoes, I think it's worth it. You are going to come back with the labor shortage we have but it's for min wage jobs. Create good paying jobs and that 20% is a steal.



The tariff is for those corporation that are still located in the "Safe" USA and maintains factories that used to be in the US. We should reward companies located in the us that actually pay a decent wage. More shoes gets produced in USA and more decent paying jobs are also created. Having to pay 20% more for shoes is a bargain at those prices.

I'm no economist ... but how can paying 85¢/hr compared to paying $20/hr only raise prices 20% ... do you have a breakdown? ... a reference? ... or is this just off the top of your head? ...

Perhaps if you addressed the labor problem, I wouldn't keep slamming your head into it ...

Shoes are a bad example ... no way are American shoes retailing for $8.40 ...

 

[Vrenn]

I'm no economist ... but how can paying 85¢/hr compared to paying $20/hr only raise prices 20% ... do you have a breakdown? ... a reference? ... or is this just off the top of your head? ...

You ain't no Logistics person either. When you have a cheap item that can get made for 85 cents an hour and that's all you consider then you are right. But if that same item needs to be shipped (there are about 3 steps that you have to pay off even before it gets on the boat or plain) that same item now is worth about 800% if you also count on the shipping costs. It ends up being cheaper to make in Mexico or even the US. even at 12 bucks an hour for employees. Most of the manufacture will be done through automation anyway so the cost to make will be the same. But the peripheral workers will be what is the higher pay in the US versus China.

A computer laptop costs anywhere from 299 and up yet in China it's going to cost under 30. The difference is logistics and bribes. Not to mention Greed. Like a NIKE should cost 400 bucks or more per pair.

Perhaps if you addressed the labor problem, I wouldn't keep slamming your head into it ...

Shoes are a bad example ... no way are American shoes retailing for $8.40 ...

 

[Stryder50]

What is your point? Are you rejecting the greenhouse effect or CO2 as a GHG?

My point is what the data of the past hundreds of millions of years shows.

That while CO2 my have a slight GHG effect, it is a very minor greenhouse effect compared to other more significant factors that affect climate change~flux~variation when viewed in perspective of hundreds of thousands of years to millions of years.

If you knew how to read those graphs I presented, you'd see that there is no linkage between CO2 levels and average global temperatures; i.e. neither has a direct effect upon the other.

If you really believed in such (ACC - AGW) and had integrity, you'd have stopped personal production of CO2 and other GHG in your own personal lifestyle. You so far haven't, which means you are a fraud, phoney, and hypocrite. I see no reason to continue giving you any credibility on this topic.

 

[Stryder50]

You ain't no Logistics person either. When you have a cheap item that can get made for 85 cents an hour and that's all you consider then you are right. But if that same item needs to be shipped (there are about 3 steps that you have to pay off even before it gets on the boat or plain) that same item now is worth about 800% if you also count on the shipping costs. It ends up being cheaper to make in Mexico or even the US. even at 12 bucks an hour for employees. Most of the manufacture will be done through automation anyway so the cost to make will be the same. But the peripheral workers will be what is the higher pay in the US versus China.

A computer laptop costs anywhere from 299 and up yet in China it's going to cost under 30. The difference is logistics and bribes. Not to mention Greed. Like a NIKE should cost 400 bucks or more per pair.

You appear to be neither an "economist" nor a "logistic person". Underscored by your lack of presenting any sources or documentation to support the numbers and data you made up.

Typical of socialist libturds whom know nothing about economics or financials.

Speaking of greed, you socialist libturds always expect someone else to pay for the greed of your personal desires and wants.

 

[Crick]

You appear to be neither an "economist" nor a "logistic person". Underscored by your lack of presenting any sources or documentation to support the numbers and data you made up.

Typical of socialist libturds whom know nothing about economics or financials.

Speaking of greed, you socialist libturds always expect someone else to pay for the greed of your personal desires and wants.

Good idea. Get me some kim-chee, a chocolate milkshake, a wetsuit and a quart of Valvoline. And hurry up, I don't have all day!

 

[ReinyDays]

You ain't no Logistics person either. When you have a cheap item that can get made for 85 cents an hour and that's all you consider then you are right. But if that same item needs to be shipped (there are about 3 steps that you have to pay off even before it gets on the boat or plain) that same item now is worth about 800% if you also count on the shipping costs. It ends up being cheaper to make in Mexico or even the US. even at 12 bucks an hour for employees. Most of the manufacture will be done through automation anyway so the cost to make will be the same. But the peripheral workers will be what is the higher pay in the US versus China.

A computer laptop costs anywhere from 299 and up yet in China it's going to cost under 30. The difference is logistics and bribes. Not to mention Greed. Like a NIKE should cost 400 bucks or more per pair.

Are you just making this up? ... NPR did a series where they literally when to the cotton fields ... harvest, processing, shipping to where ever the stuff goes next ... very detailed and many episodes later we get the T-shirt in the American shopping mall ...

"NPR's Planet Money Illuminates the World behind the T-shirt"

 

[Stryder50]

Good idea. Get me some kim-chee, a chocolate milkshake, a wetsuit and a quart of Valvoline. And hurry up, I don't have all day!

All of which require "fossil fuels" to make and deliver to you.
Wait, you object to using "fossil fuels", guess it's back to digging grubs for you.

 

[Vrenn]

You appear to be neither an "economist" nor a "logistic person". Underscored by your lack of presenting any sources or documentation to support the numbers and data you made up.

I AM the source. I purchased directly from China for a number of years. That item costed about 59 bucks to make. But the time it hit California and was sitting on the dock, it coast 259 after paying the various shipping and handling and greasing the wheels at every stop until it got to the US Docks. The US manufactured similar items were being retailed for about 500 bucks and costed about 300 bucks to make.

In China, every stop of the way, you had to pay a "Fee" above what was broadcast. China, like Russia, is mostly corrupt when dealing with exports. Had the same units been sold inside China, the Wheels wouldn't have been greased and the cost would be a fraction of what I had to charge in the US.

Typical of socialist libturds whom know nothing about economics or financials.

Speaking of greed, you socialist libturds always expect someone else to pay for the greed of your personal desires and wants.

I expect you to pay for what is right. You want it for nothing.