The Great Taxer

[midcan5]

"But Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; he followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with President Reagan's leadership, and what's wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush.

The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Mr. Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Over all, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of G.D.P., the increase was substantially larger than Mr. Clinton's 1993 tax increase.

The contrast with President Bush is obvious. President Reagan, confronted with evidence that his tax cuts were fiscally irresponsible, changed course. President Bush, confronted with similar evidence, has pushed for even more tax cuts.

Mr. Reagan's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility -- or at least that's the way it seemed at the time. I'm referring to the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B05E5DE1F31F93BA35755C0A9629C8B63

 

[jillian]

Amazing how the fantasy of what Reagan was like is contradicted by the reality.

But I'll give him this, the article is right, when he was faced with evidence that there's no such thing as "trickle down", he raised taxes, as did Daddy Bush, to make sure our national bill was paid....

unlike Baby Bush who "believes the same thing on Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday".*


*with thanks to stephen colbert

 

[midcan5]

Yes, I agree Reagan is interesting as the only thing the republicans praise about him, tax reduction, is the thing he finally realized didn't have the best consequences. Remember David Stockman the whole era is sorta funny especially when I see the young cons worshiping at Reagan's imaginary church.

 

[nibor]

Yes, I agree Reagan is interesting as the only thing the republicans praise about him, tax reduction, is the thing he finally realized didn't have the best consequences. Remember David Stockman the whole era is sorta funny especially when I see the young cons worshiping at Reagan's imaginary church.

What church was that....................The First Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the Blinding Light.....................?

 

[Toro]

It shows you the thrall the GOP is in regarding tax cuts as a panacea for everything that ails us. Its embarrassing.

 

[nibor]

It shows you the thrall the GOP is in regarding tax cuts as a panacea for everything that ails us. Its embarrassing.

I'd say it's all pretty embarrassing.................from the time Reagan's montra PROJECTED the people of this country as the most useless population on earth....................what a guy................the geek shoulda been HORSE WHIPPED!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Delbert]

Like we're gonna get an unbiased view of Reagan from an opinion piece
in the NY Times. That was rediculous. Like Bill Clinton had better approval ratings, hahahaha ...Reagan was re-elected with the biggest landslide in
modern history. Clinton never got half the vote. Then the author wants me
to believe that Reagan thought he messed up in '81 and lowered taxes too much. Reagan would have lowered taxes even more, if congress could control
their spending. Reagan was for a balanced budget amendment.
This is just someones distorted opinion. It made me laugh tho.

 

[jillian]

I think Clinton left office with a higher approval rating. The cult of personality that surrounds Reagan and his platitudes is largely revisionist history and a rose-colored glasses kind of thing. In other words, it's nostalgia.

 

[Delbert]

People can conduct polls all day long.
They are subject to who is conducting the poll, and how the questions are
worded and or asked. The only poll and telling poll is the general elections.
How do you explain the landslide in '84. Reagan would have won another
election by landslide if circumstances allowed. Clinton would never have
gotten 50% of the vote,.... ever. You crack me up,...but go ahead and
believe what you want.

oh and for the record, I do not consider myself a republican or a democrat
I voted for Perot in 92. I will vote this year for the candidate who is fiscally
responsible....too bad Ron Paul wont be on the ballot

 

[Toro]

Reagan lowered taxes, then he raised them.

That's not debateable.

It's conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan's watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly--but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year's reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike--the largest since World War II--was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn't count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives--and probably cost Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection--Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0301.green.html

 

[Mr.Conley]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but even if Reagan reduced the provisions of his original tax cut by 1/3, isn't that still a net reduction?

 

[midcan5]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but even if Reagan reduced the provisions of his original tax cut by 1/3, isn't that still a net reduction?

True but curiously everything I have read concerning his tax reductions point to a responsible approach. The difference, like so many things, is that only the piece that fits the ideological stance is emphasized. I cannot for instance believe McCain has repeated the death wish - 'read my lips.' And every survey says Americans as a majority would rather see deficit reduction than reduced taxes!!! so you figure it out, I can't, the power of ideas or maybe greed is way too powerful a motivator for rationality.

 

[JeffWartman]

Whether or not tax cuts raise revenues, or who raised taxes and who didn't, is still made irrelevant by the fact that the income tax is theft of wages.

 

[midcan5]

Whether or not tax cuts raise revenues, or who raised taxes and who didn't, is still made irrelevant by the fact that the income tax is theft of wages.

Income taxes are just society's way of holding on and fighting back the chaos of man. Infrastructure that create and maintain order cost and require money, knowledge, and government. Check out developing counties for a picture of the consequences. You do drive roads I assume? so think of all that money providing for that and for your safety. And should your kids get sick maybe some help from a public facility will be appreciated too. Or maybe an education that allows you to do something good.

 

[JeffWartman]

Income taxes are just society's way of holding on and fighting back the chaos of man. Infrastructure that create and maintain order cost and require money, knowledge, and government. Check out developing counties for a picture of the consequences. You do drive roads I assume? so think of all that money providing for that and for your safety. And should your kids get sick maybe some help from a public facility will be appreciated too. Or maybe an education that allows you to do something good.

You did not answer the question. Typical.

Do you think there is 17% of unnecessary spending in the budget which can be cut?

 

[jreeves]

"But Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; he followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with President Reagan's leadership, and what's wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush.

The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Mr. Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Over all, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of G.D.P., the increase was substantially larger than Mr. Clinton's 1993 tax increase.

The contrast with President Bush is obvious. President Reagan, confronted with evidence that his tax cuts were fiscally irresponsible, changed course. President Bush, confronted with similar evidence, has pushed for even more tax cuts.

Mr. Reagan's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility -- or at least that's the way it seemed at the time. I'm referring to the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B05E5DE1F31F93BA35755C0A9629C8B63

Mr. Reagain's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility....Effect of Reagan's Policies on the Deficit

It is commonly believed that the deficit problem was caused by the Reagan administration's fatal error when it cut income taxes at the same time that it undertook an enormous buildup of the defense establishment. Certainly both contributed to the deficit, but it would be a serious oversimplification to lay full blame on tax cuts and increased defense expenditures.

Shortly after the tax cuts in 1981, the increase in payroll taxes mandated to restore solvency to the Social Security system more than offset the reduction in income tax revenues. In spite of the common belief, the Reagan administration did not cut taxes. It merely shifted them from high income individual and corporate payers to payroll payers. Total tax revenues during the Reagan years averaged a little higher than during the eight years before.

 

[jreeves]

Mr. Reagain's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility....Effect of Reagan's Policies on the Deficit

It is commonly believed that the deficit problem was caused by the Reagan administration's fatal error when it cut income taxes at the same time that it undertook an enormous buildup of the defense establishment. Certainly both contributed to the deficit, but it would be a serious oversimplification to lay full blame on tax cuts and increased defense expenditures.

Shortly after the tax cuts in 1981, the increase in payroll taxes mandated to restore solvency to the Social Security system more than offset the reduction in income tax revenues. In spite of the common belief, the Reagan administration did not cut taxes. It merely shifted them from high income individual and corporate payers to payroll payers. Total tax revenues during the Reagan years averaged a little higher than during the eight years before.

http://wfhummel.cnchost.com/debtdeficit.html

 

[jreeves]

Amazing how the fantasy of what Reagan was like is contradicted by the reality.

But I'll give him this, the article is right, when he was faced with evidence that there's no such thing as "trickle down", he raised taxes, as did Daddy Bush, to make sure our national bill was paid....

unlike Baby Bush who "believes the same thing on Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday".*


*with thanks to stephen colbert

see the previous posts, also Reagan did a major cutting of social programs in this country did you support that also?? I did... But I didn't support our national bill was 3 trillion dollars in debt after his presidency. WOW!! Anything to make a liberal point...here you go...
Maybe someone just misspelled "mourning." The budget deficit explosion that occurred during the 1980s were a direct result of President Reagan's tax cuts, and the resulting lack of available funds that could have been earmarked toward social programs contributed to the continuing deconstruction of American social programs. Reagan's assault on these programs took as its starting point the conservative ideological foundation that if people rely upon government welfare strategies to provide them with such things as food, housing and help taking care of their children it will serve as a disincentive for them to work; therefore the less the government helps the poor, ultimately the more they will help themselves and the better off they will be.

President Reagan was a firm believer in this methodology and almost from the moment he took his oath of office set to work dismantling government entitlement programs. The first major step toward rolling back opportunities for those not lucky enough to be born into wealth took place when he signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA). OBRA served to cut federal funding programs for the poor as well as inducements for states to provide funding. Unfortunately, cutting funding for programs was not enough to revolutionize the welfare programs in the way that conservative ideologues desired. In order to completely undermine the progressive system of entitlements to the poor, the Reagan administration began to use tax reform as a method of undercutting welfare.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/19457/ronald_reagan_budget_cuts_deficit_spending.html

 

[jreeves]

I think Clinton left office with a higher approval rating. The cult of personality that surrounds Reagan and his platitudes is largely revisionist history and a rose-colored glasses kind of thing. In other words, it's nostalgia.

You and Mind Can....maybe not intentionally but you all are very uninformed when trying to draw a liberal champion out of the Gop in Reagan. Cause he cut the hell out of social programs. Not only that you say his economic policies were beneficial to this country, BS. He is infamously know as the President with the hugest defecits, not being fiscally responsible. LOL

 

[JeffWartman]

You did not answer the question. Typical.

Do you think there is 17% of unnecessary spending in the budget which can be cut?

Still waiting for an answer...