The Good Narrative Sure Has Shifted in the Last Three Days

[Marener]

You are showing more outrage at foreigners getting scared than the Americans who have been bludgeoned to death by illegals.

Where’s your compassion for THEM?!

You’re just about the most sick leftist on this forum.

And I asked you before: how old are you?

Im not trying to excuse their crime. I feel sadness and compassion for the victim.

The only difference is that you’re fine with our own government committing crimes, up to and including trying to kill citizens.

 

[Marener]

Announcement:

I cannot engage with Moroner any more. The thought that we have such ignorant, twisted, stupid Americans voting is turning my stomach.

You’ve said many things which are racist, bigoted and recently classist.

If you don’t like me, I shall consider it a complement.

All I’ve done is try to shine a light on that which you support.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

My opinion is based on the facts and history of other ICE agents. There are several instances of ICE lying about the justification of the use of deadly force.

As I've already said, even if your opinion has merit, it is irrelevant here because the fact remains that Good's actions were unlawful and the agent's actions after the fact does not change this.

There were cars driving in the opposite lane. Saying she was “obstructing” is a stretch.

If her intention was not to impede traffic or ICE operations then why did she specifically park her vehicle crossways in the street and not in the parking lane to the side? Did you even ask yourself this question before choosing to defend her actions?

The whole f***ing point was to impede traffic and make herself a nuisance. Do you really not understand this?

There was nothing preventing ICE from continuing on their mission. This encounter was wholly by choice.

Yes, her choice. And remember (because you insist on ignoring this factor), when they encountered her, they merely asked her to leave and she refused to do so. They asked her to get out of the vehicle and she refused to do so. So even if they could have just went around her the encounter never needed to escalate beyond asking her to leave in the first place. All she had to do was leave or get out of the vehicle when asked.

If you're going to talk about choices then common sense tells you that she made made choices too and her choices contributed to the outcome. No matter how much you hate ICE, this is a fact.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

There appears to be two standards.

Actions have consequences for us average citizens.

But law enforcement don’t. After all, we can’t Monday morning quarterback them.

Bullshit. Officers are tried and convicted all the time for their bad choices.

 

[Lisa558]

Im not trying to excuse their crime. I feel sadness and compassion for the victim.

The only difference is that you’re fine with our own government committing crimes, up to and including trying to kill citizens.

^^^ See what I mean? This is why normal people can’t debate with leftists. They make up opinions and insist that what you believe.

“You don’t care that our own government kills citizens!”

Who ever said that?

 

[Lisa558]

You’ve said many things which are racist, bigoted and recently classist.

If you don’t like me, I shall consider it a complement.

All I’ve done is try to shine a light on that which you support.

^^^ What a holier than thou leftist. SO superior to the rest of us (although he can’t even spell “compliment” correctly).

Obviously, a braineashed product of our leftist school program.

 

[Marener]

^^^ See what I mean? This is why normal people can’t debate with leftists. They make up opinions and insist that what you believe.

“You don’t care that our own government kills citizens!”

Who ever said that?

Whenever anyone talks about ICE breaking the law, engaging in violence or even attempting to kill people, you immediately change the subject to some horrendous crime committed by an illegal alien.

People are protesting ICE because ICE is behaving badly and there’s no repercussions.

Do you understand that?

 

[Lisa558]

As I've already said, even if your opinion has merit, it is irrelevant here because the fact remains that Good's actions were unlawful and the agent's actions after the fact does not change this.


If her intention was not to impede traffic or ICE operations then why did she specifically park her vehicle crossways in the street and not in the parking lane to the side? Did you even ask yourself this question before choosing to defend her actions?

The whole f***ing point was to impede traffic and make herself a nuisance. Do you really not understand this?

Yes, her choice. And remember (because you insist on ignoring this factor), when they encountered her, they merely asked her to leave and she refused to do so. They asked her to get out of the vehicle and she refused to do so. So even if they could have just went around her the encounter never needed to escalate beyond asking her to leave in the first place. All she had to do was leave or get out of the vehicle when asked.

If you're going to talk about choices then common sense tells you that she made made choices too and her choices contributed to the outcome. No matter how much you hate ICE, this is a fact.

He’s still more irate that someone defying law enforcement and interfering with their operations, and then presenting herself as a lethal threat in possession of a 2000-pound weapon, was killed in self-defense than the innocent, peaceful, law-abiding woman killed by a repeat offender, violent illegal alien while she was waiting for a bus.

 

[Marener]

^^^ What a holier than thou leftist. SO superior to the rest of us (although he can’t even spell “compliment” correctly).

Obviously, a braineashed product of our leftist school program.

Most people aren’t like you. You’re on the fringe.

 

[Lockback]

You’ve said many things which are racist, bigoted and recently classist.

If you don’t like me, I shall consider it a complement.

All I’ve done is try to shine a light on that which you support.

You dumb communists keep pushing the "you're racist, bigoted and classist" bullshit.
First, it's a lie.
Second?

WE DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

You've overplayed your hand. Your lies and sloppy smears are laughed at.
We just laugh at your garbage now. We don't care anymore. You blew it.
"Classist'.

 

[Lisa558]

Whenever anyone talks about ICE breaking the law, engaging in violence or even attempting to kill people, you immediately change the subject to some horrendous crime committed by an illegal alien.

People are protesting ICE because ICE is behaving badly and there’s no repercussions.

Do you understand that?

^^^ See what the leftist does? When a normal person points out his double standards and upside-values, he wants to avoid that because there’s no way for him to defend it.

 

[Lisa558]

You dumb communists keep pushing the "you're racist, bigoted and classiest" bullshit.
First, it's a lie.
Second?

WE DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

You've overplayed your hand. Your lies and sloppy smears are laughed at.
We just laugh at your garbage now. We don't care anymore. You blew it.
"Classist'.

Thank you!

He’s really gone completely off the rails.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

So you excuse their actions because they were “agitated”?

I haven't excused anything. I've already said in this same discussion that I don't know if the shooting was justified.

Whether or not the shooting was justified has never been my position. My position is simply that Good's actions were unlawful, reckless and stupid and it ended up getting her killed. The officer's actions may be wrong, I don't know, but even if they were, it doesn't make her actions any less unlawful, reckless and stupid.

I guess that’s why he called her a “******* *****” after blowing her brains out

I really don't care about that because it has no bearing on why he chose to shoot in the first place.

 

[Marener]

As I've already said, even if your opinion has merit, it is irrelevant here because the fact remains that Good's actions were unlawful and the agent's actions after the fact does not change this.

Sure, but is it too much to ask for some degree of proportionality?

If her intention was not to impede traffic or ICE operations then why did she specifically park her vehicle crossways in the street and not in the parking lane to the side? Did you even ask yourself this question before choosing to defend her actions?

I think it was her intention to annoy. Given other cars were freely passing through the other lane, one could hardly say that ICE was prevented from carrying on with their day.

The whole f***ing point was to impede traffic and make herself a nuisance. Do you really not understand this?

Again, traffic was freely flowing in the left lane. We saw cars passing by.

Yes, her choice. And remember (because you insist on ignoring this factor), when they encountered her, they merely asked her to leave and she refused to do so. They asked her to get out of the vehicle and she refused to do so. So even if they could have just went around her the encounter never needed to escalate beyond asking her to leave in the first place. All she had to do was leave or get out of the vehicle when asked.

You act as though ICE’s actions were mandatory. There were many options they had to prevent the kind of escalation that occurred.

If you're going to talk about choices then common sense tells you that she made made choices too and her choices contributed to the outcome. No matter how much you hate ICE, this is a fact.

Sure. Her choices contributed to the outcome. So did the choices of ICE agents.

If both sides have blame, only one side had consequences.

 

[Lisa558]

Most people aren’t like you. You’re on the fringe.

^^^ See? This is another way leftists delude themselves. They try to convince themselves that the people who disagree with their radical-left agenda, which includes prioritizing the interests of illegals over those of honest Americans, are “on the fringe.”

Trump WON largely because of the invasion of illegal aliens and his promise to stop the swarm and deport the ones here.

 

[Marener]

^^^ See? This is another way leftists delude themselves. They try to convince themselves that the people who disagree with their radical-left agenda, which includes prioritizing the interests of illegals over those of honest Americans, are “on the fringe.”

Trump WON largely because of the invasion of illegal aliens and his promise to stop the swarm and deport the ones here.

It’s not so simple. Although Americans did vote to have something change about illegal immigration, they did not necessarily vote for the means by which the Trump administration has gone about it.

This will include illegal activities by poorly trained agents, escalating use of violence, causing terror and mayhem, racial profiling, ignoring court orders and grabbing kids off the street for no reason to ship to prisons in Texas.

The more you look into the way this administration is acting, the more disgust one should have.

And polls reflect disapproval of his handling for precisely this point.

We can agree that we should identify dangerous criminals who are a threat to Americans, but we can rationally disagree about how to handle everyone else. Your hatred of people who disagree in this way reflects your inability or unwillingness to understand their perspective.

 

[jc456]

Shooting her outright is a bridge too far even for these guys. They have to wait for any plausible excuse to justify escalating violence to the point of lethal force.

never happened, but thanks for participating.

 

[jc456]

It’s not so simple. Although Americans did vote to have something change about illegal immigration, they did not necessarily vote for the means by which the Trump administration has gone about it.

what other means is there but ICE and DHS?

 

[hadit]

They will literally see something entirely different. They will "see" her aiming at him and driving straight into him with clearly malicious intent.

And they will absolutely believe what they "see".

We're in a zombie movie.

If I am driving a car, it is my responsibility to avoid hitting any pedestrians standing in front of my car, especially if they are LE aiming weapons at me.

 

[Lesh]

^^^ See? This is another way leftists delude themselves. They try to convince themselves that the people who disagree with their radical-left agenda, which includes prioritizing the interests of illegals over those of honest Americans, are “on the fringe.”

Trump WON largely because of the invasion of illegal aliens and his promise to stop the swarm and deport the ones here.

Example

You support Trump’s war

Only 27% of America does

You’re on the fringe