The Disaster Area of American Public Education

[Woodznutz]

How would this translate to teaching kids who don't care, don't want the be there and are being forced to be there?

Let's try it and find out. What do we have to lose?

 

[Unkotare]

Let's try it and find out.

What exactly do you want to try?

 

[Woodznutz]

The Bible teaches whatever the people using the Bible want it to say.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by intentional homicide. Top 38 countries (or areas) on this list are Christian. Then Iraq which was invaded by a Christian country and had a puppet govt put in place by the Christians, then you get down to 53rd before the next non-Christian country.
What does this say about what is being taught? I'd say that Christianity led to Human Rights, led to freedoms, but this has also led to a lot of places having high crime rates. God will forgive you no matter what is a powerful message that no other religion seems to have.

Do right wing Christians hate the sin of homosexuality and adultery? Sure.
Do right wing Christians love the sinners of homosexuality and adultery? Well, they love Trump, but they hate gays. So how's that teaching going? Not very well.

Do all Christians work hard? I mean, there are people moaning about certain sections of society being lazy, and those sections of society are often Christian.
So the Bible doesn't bother with people who aren't "spirit-led"? I'd disagree. The Christian Churches, especially the Catholic Church, went around the world pushing their religion on other people. Africa, the Americas, Australasia, Asia, all over they pushed it. Did they care if they were "spirit-led"? Nope. I had Christianity forced on me as a kid. Didn't make any sense to me, it was just the most boring parts of my early childhood.

The problem is people, not the religion. "Many are called, but few are chosen". Those few that are chosen are the spirit-led ones.

 

[Woodznutz]

What exactly do you want to try?

Test kids for aptitude before putting them into any class. Then apply order and discipline to those that do get in. The military doesn't offer remedial education, but public schools can and should.

 

[Woodznutz]

So, do you think that's going to be feasible in a public school? Do you think that the sort of teacher who opened your understanding much better is going to work in a downtrodden inner city school with kids who don't care, or a private school with well behaved students and a larger pay packet?
My high school had an excellent principle. He gained national attention. As soon as he got that, he was off to the private school system to earn more money. Capitalism.

If you want to broaden the discussion to involve other societal problems, we can talk about that as well.

 

[Moonglow]

ACT test scores drop to lowest in 30 years in pandemic slide

PHOENIX — Scores on the ACT college admissions test by this year’s high school graduates hit their lowest point in more than 30 years —...

www.post-gazette.com

While Leftists continually discount the value of standardized test scores, the reality is that these measures are the only credible way of assessing the performance of American K-12 schools. Not all students take the ACT or SAT, so statistically speaking they are not necessarily representative of all public school students, but the data are depressing nevertheless.

And they suck.

The linked article makes the predictable case that much of the current negative blip is attributable to the Pandemic - or more accurately, the State schools' irrational response to the Pandemic - but private and parochial schools heroically managed to carry on. Perversely, there is no data indicating that THOSE students or their family members suffered any ill effects (literally) from the kids going to school during the Pandemic.

As individual parents, one need not despair about the dreadful state of American public schools generally. You can move to a neighborhood with good academics, or enroll your kid is whatever classes are available for students who want "a little bit more" education for their tax dollars, or simply be a good parent and make the most of the situation. "School choice" measures might work in your favor where they are allowed to exist.

The Democrat solution to situations like this - played out all over America if you look closely - is to lower the standards to make everyone look better. I wonder that the [unconstitutional] Department of Education could do, other than throw barrels of money at the problem.

No different than other nations that became super powers. Especially since Republicans always want to cut funding for education.

 

[Moonglow]

Test kids for aptitude before putting them into any class. Then apply order and discipline to those that do get in. The military doesn't offer remedial education, but public schools can and should.

The military damn sure does a long with colleges.

 

[Woodznutz]

No different than other nations that became super powers. Especially since Republicans always want to cut funding for education.

Perhaps it's the waste they want to cut, as they do the SNAP program.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Let's try it and find out. What do we have to lose?

A lot. If it goes wrong, it's another wasted generation or two.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem is people, not the religion. "Many are called, but few are chosen". Those few that are chosen are the spirit-led ones.

Sure it is. The other problem is that religion IS PEOPLE. If all humans died, all religions would die with them.
You're saying "this is what Christianity is", but it's not. It's your VISION of what it SHOULD be. Not what the reality is.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you want to broaden the discussion to involve other societal problems, we can talk about that as well.

Well, all of societies problems are problems because politicians are uniformed and just there for the money.
They're like that because of the electoral system.

 

[Woodznutz]

Sure it is. The other problem is that religion IS PEOPLE. If all humans died, all religions would die with them.
You're saying "this is what Christianity is", but it's not. It's your VISION of what it SHOULD be. Not what the reality is.

Most people create their own reality, but aren't very good at it.

Actually, most unbelievers also know how things should be. The difference is that we take it seriously. The city snowplow drivers know it's wrong to splash snow and slush all over the sidewalks, but they don't have the moral character to slow down even a little (happens so often on my street that many don't bother to shovel their sidewalks anymore).

 

[Woodznutz]

Well, all of societies problems are problems because politicians are uniformed and just there for the money.
They're like that because of the electoral system.

The biggest problems aren't caused by politicians but by the people themselves. Government is a handy scapegoat. Government can't keep up with the problems that the people create.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Most people create their own reality, but aren't very good at it.

Actually, most unbelievers also know how things should be. The difference is that we take it seriously. The city snowplow drivers know it's wrong to splash snow and slush all over the sidewalks, but they don't have the moral character to slow down even a little (happens so often on my street that many don't bother to shovel their sidewalks anymore).

Sure, people who work for others might just do the minimum to get paid. Happens in Capitalism, Communism etc etc.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The biggest problems aren't caused by politicians but by the people themselves. Government is a handy scapegoat. Government can't keep up with the problems that the people create.

I'm going to say I disagree, simply because I think this is too simplistic.

The electoral system clearly has an impact.
If the US had Proportional Representation the country would look completely different. If it didn't have a 2 seat for every State Senate, it would look completely different. If it didn't have the President choosing Supreme Court justices and the Senate ratifying them, the US would be completely different.
Perhaps the US has the system it has because the people are too lazy to do any research. But then again the US was way ahead of its time politically. It just fossilized itself and decided it was the best because of the system and refuse to acknowledge that there's something better. Germany and other countries suffered after WW1 and WW2 and therefore saw a problem.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm going to say I disagree, simply because I think this is too simplistic.

The electoral system clearly has an impact.
If the US had Proportional Representation the country would look completely different. If it didn't have a 2 seat for every State Senate, it would look completely different. If it didn't have the President choosing Supreme Court justices and the Senate ratifying them, the US would be completely different.
Perhaps the US has the system it has because the people are too lazy to do any research. But then again the US was way ahead of its time politically. It just fossilized itself and decided it was the best because of the system and refuse to acknowledge that there's something better. Germany and other countries suffered after WW1 and WW2 and therefore saw a problem.

We can tweak the legislative and judicial systems, but the problems will remain.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We can tweak the legislative and judicial systems, but the problems will remain.

Sure they will. Problems will always exist. However having LESS problems is a good thing, right?

 

[Woodznutz]

Sure they will. Problems will always exist. However having LESS problems is a good thing, right?

Of course, but government agencies exist to address (not solve) problems. It's the grist for their mill. The Legislature invents problems when work is slow. They then manufacture impossible hoops to impede the solutions to those problems. Under their leadership the nation is falling apart. There is just enough good will out there to hold it together, but even that is fading.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Of course, but government agencies exist to address (not solve) problems. It's the grist for their mill. The Legislature invents problems when work is slow. They then manufacture impossible hoops to impede the solutions to those problems. Under their leadership the nation is falling apart. There is just enough good will out there to hold it together, but even that is fading.

In the US that might be so, and that is so because of the system.
Go to Europe and they'll try and solve problems, for the most part.

All the problems you're seeing wouldn't happen in a PR type system, or wouldn't happen so much because there'd be so many parties there that they'd voice their concerns and make sure crazy shit, like what the Reps and Dems come up with, doesn't happen.