Zone1 The Design Argument for God’s Existence.

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Fine, you don't want this conversation, then it's over.

She ain't wrong. The physical isn't eternal -- only temporary.

 

[Foxfyre]

no one excludes intelligent design as fundamental to evolution and hopefully as an improvement -

what is excluded rightfully so are the desert documents of forgeries and fallacies as any works based on biases and histories of self serving distortions should be.

Many many exclude intelligent design as fundamental to anything which is why the Atheists and other anti-religion types fight so hard to keep it entirely out of school curriculum. I think logical people do not promote teaching intelligent design as science, but rather as a way to expand thinking and concepts by offering it as one theory of the origins and development of the universe that science cannot explain.

Science is not science when it pretends to be the source of all knowledge. Science is science only when it is open ended allowing for questions, proposed concepts, different ways of looking at things, new information to be explored and learned.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Many many exclude intelligent design as fundamental to anything which is why the Atheists and other anti-religion types fight so hard to keep it entirely out of school curriculum. I think logical people do not promote teaching intelligent design as science, but rather as a way to expand thinking and concepts by offering it as one theory of the origins and development of the universe that science cannot explain.

Intelligent Design might be true. Honestly, atheists and scientists just don't care. It adds nothing to our knowledge, explains nothing whatsoever, and it yields no useful predictions.

You can claim rainbow unicorns from the 8th dimension designed everything. Other than debates for the purpose of the exercise, it means nothing at all and affects nothing.

 

[Woodznutz]

Wrong.

Well, a falling rock can 'function' as an instrument of injury or death. I'll grant you that.

 

[Woodznutz]

Intelligent Design might be true. Honestly, atheists and scientists just don't care. It adds nothing to our knowledge, explains nothing whatsoever, and it yields no useful predictions.

You can claim rainbow unicorns from the 8th dimension designed everything. Other than debates for the purpose of the exercise, it means nothing at all and affects nothing.

ID is part of belief in God. Therefore, it has great value.

 

[Foxfyre]

Intelligent Design might be true. Honestly, atheists and scientists just don't care. It adds nothing to our knowledge, explains nothing whatsoever, and it yields no useful predictions.

You can claim rainbow unicorns from the 8th dimension designed everything. Other than debates for the purpose of the exercise, it means nothing at all and affects nothing.

If Atheists and anti-religionists don't care why do they protest so loudly to keep it out of school curriculum? Knowing whether something exists or doesn't exist changes nothing other than how we look at things and process information. But neither does science education change anything other than how we look at things and process information.

The point is, there is no rational reason not to discuss intelligent design as one theory for how the universe and life came to be.

 

[Woodznutz]

If Atheists and anti-religionists don't care why do they protest so loudly to keep it out of school curriculum? Knowing whether something exists or doesn't exist changes nothing other than how we look at things and process information. But neither does science education change anything other than how we look at things and process information.

The point is, there is no rational reason not to discuss intelligent design as one theory for how the universe and life came to be.

The whole education system is unsure that what is taught is true or valuable. That's why there is a grading system. If they were sincere in what they teach most students would get "A's", as the subject matter is easily learned with a little more effort and time on the part of teachers and students.

Reminds me of the scene in "Last King of Scotland".

But You Did Not Persuade Me

 

[Foxfyre]

The whole education system is unsure that what is taught is true or valuable. That's why there is a grading system. If they were sincere in what they teach most students would get "A's", as the subject matter is easily learned with a little more effort and time on the part of teachers and students.

Reminds me of the scene in "Last King of Scotland".

Interesting concept but I think most educators, at least those who educate rather than indoctrinate are pretty much in agreement on the following:

Reading and math, two critical skills for people to have, are pretty absolute. All citizens should be proficient in reading, their native language, and basic math meaning adding, subtraction, multiplication, division. Also fractions, a little algebra--at least ratios and geometry is usually very useful to most of us. Geography and chemistry are also pretty absolute--not essential for everyday living but both valuable to know. You either know and understand it or you don't.

Science, poli-sci/civics, interpretation of history, health, literature, art, music, culture, philosophy, languages are more fluid and variable and are not essential in every day life but can vastly enrich a person's perceptions and understanding of their world and the dynamics of society.

 

[Woodznutz]

Interesting concept but I think most educators, at least those who educate rather than indoctrinate are pretty much in agreement on the following:

Reading and math, two critical skills for people to have, are pretty absolute. All citizens should be proficient in reading, their native language, and basic math meaning adding, subtraction, multiplication, division. Also fractions, a little algebra--at least ratios and geometry is usually very useful to most of us. Geography and chemistry are also pretty absolute--not essential for everyday living but both valuable to know. You either know and understand it or you don't.

Science, poli-sci/civics, interpretation of history, health, literature, art, music, culture, philosophy, languages are more fluid and variable and are not essential in every day life but can vastly enrich a person's perceptions and understanding of their world and the dynamics of society.

I think most classroom teachers (not all 'educators' are teachers) would make huge changes in the system if they had the power. They know they are sending the kids on with an inferior education.

 

[ding]

Yes. But if God always existed then he doesn't need to have created the universe because the universe can have existed for all time too.

Those are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Why do you think they are mutually inclusive?

 

[Foxfyre]

I think most classroom teachers (not all 'educators' are teachers) would make huge changes in the system if they had the power. They know they are sending the kids on with an inferior education.

I wish I could think that. There are still some excellent teachers out there. But those teachers that insert their politics and sociopolitical beliefs into the classroom regardless of where they stand in the political spectrum do their students a great disservice. And I think there are far too many so-called 'educators' now who are mostly part of the propaganda and indoctrination machine for a neo-Marxist, 'woke' progressive agenda and that is their focus.

 

[Woodznutz]

Interesting concept but I think most educators, at least those who educate rather than indoctrinate are pretty much in agreement on the following:

Reading and math, two critical skills for people to have, are pretty absolute. All citizens should be proficient in reading, their native language, and basic math meaning adding, subtraction, multiplication, division. Also fractions, a little algebra--at least ratios and geometry is usually very useful to most of us. Geography and chemistry are also pretty absolute--not essential for everyday living but both valuable to know. You either know and understand it or you don't.

Science, poli-sci/civics, interpretation of history, health, literature, art, music, culture, philosophy, languages are more fluid and variable and are not essential in every day life but can vastly enrich a person's perceptions and understanding of their world and the dynamics of society.

One only needs to google "The failure of education" to be overwhelmed by the articles pointing it out.

 

[Donald H]

Those are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Why do you think they are mutually inclusive?

Your 'time out' is over now and you will be tested for a short period of time with 'probation'.

 

[Donald H]

Those are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Why do you think they are mutually inclusive?

With a lack of reliable evidence, we are left with no more than speculating on the fact that the bibles are as off and on target as the weather.

Your beliefs in the bibles not being the literal word of the god, are blasphemy to believers of the unquestioning quality as our 'Blaster'.

I concur with your attempts to bring partial sanity to the outstanding questions. In other words, we can get along fine together during this trial period of questioning our respective religions or understandings.

 

[buttercup]

God created the material universe including Eden-earth first for the pleasure of the angels that he created, and later for us.

That's not entirely true, and I think the way you stated that is misleading. Colossians 1:16 clearly says that all things were created by and FOR God. And there are other scriptures that back that up. The idea that everything is for us is wrong and at the root of so many of the problems in this world, imo.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well, a falling rock can 'function' as an instrument of injury or death. I'll grant you that.

All you are doing is repeating the claim that everything is designed.

Great. No it isn't.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If Atheists and anti-religionists don't care why do they protest so loudly to keep it out of school curriculum?

I already answered that: there is no place for it, in scientific classes. Just as you would not teach Greek mythology or astrology in a scientific classroom.

I'm sure you would object, were we to pass a law forcing everyone who goes to church to spend 20 minutes of every sermon being taught calculus.

 

[Foxfyre]

I already answered that: there is no place for it, in scientific classes. Just as you would not teach Greek mythology or astrology in a scientific classroom.

I'm sure you would object, were we to pass a law forcing everyone who goes to church to spend 20 minutes of every sermon being taught calculus.

That you completely missed the point of my post and/or don't understand what science is does not make your argument pertinent to the discussion or even rational. Sorry.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That you completely missed the point of my post and/or don't understand what science is does not make your argument pertinent to the discussion or even rational. Sorry.

Your point was not relevant. It was ignored as a red herring. Also, your attempt at a shitty tu quoque point was utterly destroyed by me. This what you get for making such a shitty point.

Intelligent Design is not a scientific idea and has no place in scienctific teaching. Dave it for church, philosophy xercises to waste time, and religious studies classes.

 

[Woodznutz]

That's not entirely true, and I think the way you stated that is misleading. Colossians 1:16 clearly says that all things were created by and FOR God. And there are other scriptures that back that up. The idea that everything is for us is wrong and at the root of so many of the problems in this world, imo.

Of course, God owns all things, but those things are being used by God's created beings. It's like a cow that is owned by a farmer, who allows others to enjoy the milk. God honors 'ownership' by his created beings else he wouldn't say "his vine and fig tree, and none shall make him afraid."

Jude mentions the "estate" of the angels, which implies ownership. Eden was created for the pleasure of the angels, and later for us. God owns all but we get to use it as if it were our own.