The Democrats concede defeat

[Comrade]

With a death rattle like this, the Dems are finished.

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=ses

My Democratic friends are mad as hell, and they aren't going to take it any more.

They are worried, having watched as another August smear campaign, full of lies and half-truths, takes its toll in the polls.

They are frustrated, mostly at the Kerry campaign, for naively believing that just because all the newspapers and news organizations that investigated the charges of the Swift Boat assassins found them to be full of lies and half-truths, they wouldn't take their toll. The word on the street is that Kerry himself was ready to fire back the day the story broke, but that his campaign, believing the charges would blow over if they ignored them, counseled restraint.

But most of all, activists Democrats are angry. As one who lived through an August like this, 16 years ago -- replete with rumors that were lies, which the Bush campaign claimed they had nothing to do with and later admitted they had planted -- I'm angry, too. I've been to this movie. I know how it works. Lies move numbers.

Remember the one about Dukakis suffering from depression after he lost the governorship? (Dukakis not crazy, more at 11.) We lost six points over that lie, planted by George W.'s close friend and colleague in the 1988 campaign, Lee Atwater. Or how about the one about Kitty Dukakis burning a flag at an antiwar demonstration, another out-and-out lie, which the Bush campaign denied having anything to do with, except that it turned out to have come from a United States senator via the Republican National Committee? Lee Atwater later apologized to me for that, too, on his deathbed. Did I mention that Lee's wife is connected to the woman running the Swift Boat campaign?

Who wants to join an angry group of bitter losers?

Thanks for all the swing votes, losers.

Never again, we said then.

Not again, Democrats are saying now.

What do you do, Democrats keep asking each other.

The answer is not pretty, but everyone knows what it is.


In 1988, in the days before the so-called independent groups, the candidate called the shots. To Michael Dukakis' credit, depending on how you look at it, he absolutely refused to get into the gutter, even to answer the charges. His theory, like that of some on the Kerry staff, was that answering such charges would only elevate them, give them more attention than they deserved. He thought the American people wanted to hear about issues, not watch a mud-wrestling match. In theory, he was right. In practice, the sad truth is that smears work -- that if you throw enough mud, some of it is bound to stick.

You can't just answer the charges. You can't just say it ain't so.

Correction: You can't answer the charges.

What was it Kerry said today? That question is not legitimate?

You have to fight fire with fire, mud with mud, dirt with dirt.

The trouble with Democrats, traditionally, is that we're not mean enough.

:rotflmao:

I can't take it anymore.

Dukakis wasn't. I wasn't. I don't particularly like destroying people. I got into politics because of issues, not anger. But too much is at stake to play by Dukakis rules, and lose again.

That is the conclusion Democrats have reached. So watch out. Millions of dollars will be on the table. And there are plenty of choices for what to spend it on.

I'm not promising pretty.

Ahhh! My eyes! They burn!!!

What will it be?

I'll have the boneless liberal with a side order of raving moonbat. And can I get ketchup with that?

Will it be the three, or is it four or five, drunken driving arrests that Bush and Cheney, the two most powerful men in the world, managed to rack up? (Bush's Texas record has been sealed. Now why would that be? Who seals a perfect driving record?)

I suggest you go all out and say it was 911 arrests. Why not? The records are sealed, right?

[/b]After Vietnam, nothing is ancient history,[/b]

OMG!

Every time the Dems say 'Vietnam', another nail is hammered into the coffin.

and Cheney is still drinking. What their records suggest is not only a serious problem with alcoholism, which Bush but not Cheney has acknowledged, but also an even more serious problem of judgment. Could Dick Cheney get a license to drive a school bus with his record of drunken driving? (I can see the ad now.) A job at a nuclear power plant? Is any alcoholic ever really cured? So why put him in the most stressful job in the world, with a war going south, a thousand Americans already dead and control of weapons capable of destroying the world at his fingertips.

Were still electing Bush... you'll time to deal with Cheney in 2008, but for now focus on Bush and the button and bring back the cocaine. I haven't heard that one for a long time.

It has been said that in the worst of times, Kissinger gave orders to the military not to obey Nixon if he ordered a first strike. What if Bush were to fall off the wagon? Then what? Has America really faced the fact that we have an alcoholic as our president?

Vietnam and alcohol together! :hail:

Can you hand me that nail? Thanks.

WHACK!

Or how about Dead Texans for Truth, highlighting those who served in Vietnam instead of the privileged draft-dodging president, and ended up as names on the wall instead of members of the Air National Guard. I'm sure there are some mothers out there who are still mourning their sons, and never made that connection. It wouldn't be so hard to find them.

Keep them coming.

WHACK!

Or maybe it will be Texas National Guardsmen for Truth, who can explain exactly what George W. Bush was doing while John Kerry was putting his life on the line. So far, all W. can do is come up with dental records to prove that he met his obligations. Perhaps with money on the table, or investigators on their trail, we will learn just what kind of wild and crazy things the president was doing while Kerry was saving a man's life, facing enemy fire and serving his country.

And a hamster too, all in four short months during his service in ... say it with me, Vietnam.

WHACK!

Or could it be George Bush's Former Female Friends for Truth. A forthcoming book by Kitty Kelly raises questions about whether the president has practiced what he preaches on the issue of abortion. As Larry Flynt discovered, a million dollars loosens lips. Are there others to be loosened?

Huh? Now I'm confused. Bush had an abortion and Larry Flynt greased up lips? But what does that have to do with Vietnam?

Are you shocked?

As if Dems could shock us ... no, I'm THRILLED! Without any talk of the economy or game plan for security and no mention of 30 years of Kerry's legistlative role, you get to talk more about Vietnam!

Meet the New Boss, same as the Old Boss.

Not fair? Who said anything about fair? Remember President Dukakis? He was very fair. Now he teaches at Northeastern University. John Kerry has been very fair in dealing with the Swift Boat charges. That's why so many of my Democrat friends have decided to stop talking to the campaign, and start putting money together independently.

Abandon ship!

The arrogant little Republican boys who have been strutting around New York this week, claiming that they have this one won, would do well to take a step back. It could be a long and ugly road to November.

I'll stand way back. The Dems are dialed in for self-destruct, and I plan to sit back and enjoy the show.

So sing on, fat lady!

"blowup:

 

[Annie]

Damn, until I read this, I thought that Estrich had a semblance of a brain, not to mention morals. The GOP must F bomb them, since that is what they plan to do. Unreal and unpatriotic, no holds barred and they need to be called on it.

 

[007]

Damn, until I read this, I thought that Estrich had a semblance of a brain, not to mention morals. The GOP must F bomb them, since that is what they plan to do. Unreal and unpatriotic, no holds barred and they need to be called on it.

Don't worry... it'll all backfire on them. It always does.

 

[007]

Hilarious pic Comrade. I had to copy it and send it to some folks.

 

[Avatar4321]

Holy crap. i mean i knew they were falling apart. But these people are in utter shambles. They think they havent been mean and nasty. Hello?! Who do they think invented the politics of personal destruction. I mean holy crap what do they call Michael Moore? They freaking compared President Bush to adolf hitler, arguably the lowest scum to have ever lived. And they think they have been nice?

They think Kerry and his men have been ignoring the Swift Boats? heck no Kerry sent out his men to fight them from day one. Kerry was an idiot for sending people who had no idea what they were talking about and didnt even read the book to fight with them but Kerry and the Dems were answering the charges. the problems were they changed their story like every other day. and Kerry wouldnt just release is darn records to the world. Its not that big a deal. But to say Kerry has tried to stay above it and ignore it. You have to be joking if you believe that. the man tried to sue to get them to shut up.

These people are detached from reality. Instead of looking at where the problem is, themselves. they are just going to get meaner and nastier. I dont know if this is a good or bad thing. i mean its good cause Bush will win...but If they keep going they can get violent very easily.

 

[Comrade]

Damn, until I read this, I thought that Estrich had a semblance of a brain, not to mention morals. The GOP must F bomb them, since that is what they plan to do. Unreal and unpatriotic, no holds barred and they need to be called on it.

They call it the hate parade.


http://www.blogsforbush.com/media/heinz_hell.mp3

 

[Annie]

All of us that do not desire to have JFK lead us. We don't 'get it.' We expect more current info, not relying on 35 year old stuff, being questioned by those that were there. Dumb us.

What is JFK's 'secret' plan for Iraq? Afghanistan?

What would he do about Iran? What I've heard is that we would provide nuclear capability for electricity, which they do not need, in order to preempt their weapons production?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

I've been saying it since I got here: Kerry and company are a bunch of "holier then thou" bullshit artists! I swear, they really thought they could have their convention in Boston, replete with the "Kerry takes Boston Harbor" boat trip, the home videos, and his "reporting for duty" nonsense and ram it down everyones throat. It is a total insult to our intelligence that these people think they are so smart and better then the rest of us that we would buy into it. Add in Hillary's "we're going to take your money and spend it for you" mentality and you can see why the Democratic Party is going to go the way of the Whigs. No sale here! I will do my damndest to to make sure as many people I know do not vote for any Dems in November.

Whether you drive a 1971 Ford F-150 or a 2004 BMW 7 series, people eventually get fed up being served cold BS with a side of contempt.

 

[musicman]

So, what the Democrats are saying is that, after Richard Clarke, the "non-partisan" 911 Commision, Michael Moore, Air America (who can forget Al Franken's battle cry: Bush is going down!), the Boston freak show, and $50 million worth of the worst, unsubstantiated horseshit that Georgee Soros could dream up - what - the gloves are coming off???!!!!

 

[Avatar4321]

So, what the Democrats are saying is that, after Richard Clarke, the "non-partisan" 911 Commision, Michael Moore, Air America (who can forget Al Franken's battle cry: Bush is going down!), the Boston freak show, and $50 million worth of the worst, unsubstantiated horseshit that Georgee Soros could dream up - what - the gloves are coming off???!!!!

I cant imagine what they have planned. Although if they are taking off the gloves all it means is they are planning to get more S*** on their hands.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

So, what the Democrats are saying is that, after Richard Clarke, the "non-partisan" 911 Commision, Michael Moore, Air America (who can forget Al Franken's battle cry: Bush is going down!), the Boston freak show, and $50 million worth of the worst, unsubstantiated horseshit that Georgee Soros could dream up - what - the gloves are coming off???!!!!

:rotflmao:

Let's not forget Al Gore's rant at the MoveOn.org event, and people like Nancy Pelosi and Martin Sheen taking the high road by calling the President a "moron". Yep, I'd hate to see those loving, caring liberals get nasty.

 

[musicman]

No kidding. What rock have they left unturned up until now?

 

[britinusa]

This is unbelievable! These people are insane. I wasn't around in '84 and '88, how did the Dems behave back then?

 

[NATO AIR]

i'll probably get flamed for this but

i think this campaign will be the most nasty ever, with scandalous attacks from both sides (we've already seen) and many, many dirty tricks and half-lies and damned lies thrown about.

i am a republican, i have my issues with bush but like kerry even less.
however, i am under no illusion that my party is holier than thou, and that we don't have wackos under our tent as well. zell miller took the stage for an address that the majority of americans (and the majority of republicans i know, not the message board posting partisans we all are) realized was an unfair, unsubstantiated attack on john kerry and his character, as well as some of the very traditions of our democracy (holding the president accountable, asking pointed, serious questions about the conduct of two wars we've won but whose peace is perilous right now (afghanistan and iraq)... falwell, pat robertson, bob dole (a political hatchet man and personal apologist for the tobacco industry for decades), all these men are just as pathetic as any of the worst liberals i can name (michael moore, that garafolo actress, ed asner, etc etc)

no one's hands are going to be clean in this election, but in the past, the dems didn't wage dirty tricks campaigns as far as i know. with tensions so high now that isn't the case anymore. clinton's people were told a story about george bush I strafing innnocent japanese fishermen, but they ignored it and didn't say a word about it. gore was given information about bush's vietnam service, but didn't say a word about it.
yet in 2002, the GOP leaders made the creation of the most expensive, most useless government agency ever (homeland security dept, a massive bueracracy now) a political issue and put out campaign ads painting democratic senators in league with bin laden and saddam hussein for opposing it (remember max cleeland, a blue dog democrat senator who was labled an ally of bin laden in those advertisements)

so yea, the liberals are nuts, but so are the wacko cons on the right... as always, the people in the middle are forced to sit through this garbage which detracts from the real issues.

so can we please stuff the holier than thou shit?

 

[Merlin1047]

With a death rattle like this, the Dems are finished.

Loved your post Comrade. Great stuff.

I went to the author's web site and sent her an e-mail. I thought I'd share it with you:


Read your piece villifying the Republican campaign.

Ms. Estrich, you are in dire need of acquiring some perspective for your writing. As it is, you simply embarrass yourself with these one-sided diatribes filtered through your liberal viewpoint.

It is curious that you could somehow get on your high horse and whine about the Republican campaign, given the conduct of the Democrats during the last six months. Apparently you suffer from the same selective retention with which most liberals seem to be afflicted.

I am, admittedly, a conservative. However I will listen to well thought out and factual opposing views. Some may even change my attitudes. However I can recognize the stench of demagogic propoganda when confronted with it and your piece on the campaign stinks to high heaven.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



P.S. I'm looking forward to a response, although I'm not holding my breath while I wait.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

i'll probably get flamed for this but

i think this campaign will be the most nasty ever, with scandalous attacks from both sides (we've already seen) and many, many dirty tricks and half-lies and damned lies thrown about.

i am a republican, i have my issues with bush but like kerry even less.
however, i am under no illusion that my party is holier than thou, and that we don't have wackos under our tent as well. zell miller took the stage for an address that the majority of americans (and the majority of republicans i know, not the message board posting partisans we all are) realized was an unfair, unsubstantiated attack on john kerry and his character, as well as some of the very traditions of our democracy (holding the president accountable, asking pointed, serious questions about the conduct of two wars we've won but whose peace is perilous right now (afghanistan and iraq)... falwell, pat robertson, bob dole (a political hatchet man and personal apologist for the tobacco industry for decades), all these men are just as pathetic as any of the worst liberals i can name (michael moore, that garafolo actress, ed asner, etc etc)

no one's hands are going to be clean in this election, but in the past, the dems didn't wage dirty tricks campaigns as far as i know. with tensions so high now that isn't the case anymore. clinton's people were told a story about george bush I strafing innnocent japanese fishermen, but they ignored it and didn't say a word about it. gore was given information about bush's vietnam service, but didn't say a word about it.
yet in 2002, the GOP leaders made the creation of the most expensive, most useless government agency ever (homeland security dept, a massive bueracracy now) a political issue and put out campaign ads painting democratic senators in league with bin laden and saddam hussein for opposing it (remember max cleeland, a blue dog democrat senator who was labled an ally of bin laden in those advertisements)

so yea, the liberals are nuts, but so are the wacko cons on the right... as always, the people in the middle are forced to sit through this garbage which detracts from the real issues.

so can we please stuff the holier than thou shit?

You make a lot of good points, and I do agree that this campaign has been nasty and will only get nastier. Speaking as an Independent that finds himself leaning more and more Republican, I do have a few things I'd like to point out.

I disagree that the majority of Americans saw Zell Miller's speech as unfair or unsubstantiated. Miller gave facts about Kerry's voting record, then gave his opinion of where Kerry stood and what the Democratic Party had become. I'm sure there were some , including Republicans, that saw it as unfair. I'm also willing to bet there were some Democrats that saw it as the way they were starting to feel. At least some of the older ones.

Yes, there is dirty campaigning on both sides and there always has been. Who can forget the '88 Dukakis photo op in the tank, that turned into a Bush ad bashing Dukakis, that turned into a Dukakis ad bashing Bush for bashing Dukakis. As bad as some things have been in the past, I can't say I remember anything as nasty as what has come from the Democrats this year. There has been a total lack of respect for the office, filled with wild allegations. If you want to talk about unsubstantiated attacks, there have been a ton coming from the Dems and from the liberals for months. President Bush has been accused of everything from misleading the country into war, dispite every commission saying otherwise, to the extreme view of mass murder from the kooks that think he was behind the 9/11 attack. Comparisons to Hitler, accusations of desertion, unfounded claims about the prison scandel in Iraq. For quite some time, this all went on while President Bush was out there talking about the economy, talking about jobs, and talking about the war on terror. All the while the Dems were shouting that they wanted to talk about the issues, but doing anything but talking about the issues. The Dems claimed President Bush couldn't run on his record, all the while they talked about anything but Kerry's record.

Clinton may very well have come across some story about Bush 41. Problem is, there was no way to know if it was true. There was no group of WW2 veterans making claims. What seperates this from the swift boat vets is that the claim about Kerry today comes from men who were there. As for Gore, I do recall the Vietnam thing being brought up briefly during that campaign. Thing is, an accusation of pulling strings could have easily been connected to Gore too. Plus, if you were Gore and you were Clinton's Vice-President, how much would you want to push anything about Vietnam?

I can't really comment on the Cleeland ads, I've never seen them. All I can say is that ads like that were never run where I live.

Other than ads, we have the supporters themselves. Martin Sheen called President Bush a moron. Whoopi Goldberg compared him to part of her anatomy. Michael Moore has called him everything in the book. Meanwhile, they have had little to say about why they suppor Kerry. Yes, there are exceptions like Ben Afflack, but the majority follow along with what I've listed.
Meanwhile, Stephen Baldwin says he likes Bush because of his relationship with God. Ed Koch says he believes Bush is the man to lead the war on terror. Bruce Willis says Bush has the best economic plan. Yes, there are exceptions, but even with the exceptions they give more reason to vote for Bush rather than against Kerry.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, there are two different kinds of attacks, at least for the most part. The Republican attacks that are based on fact and opinion, and the Democratic attacks that are based on hate, assumption, and conspiracy.

 

[Comrade]

Loved your post Comrade. Great stuff.

I went to the author's web site and sent her an e-mail. I thought I'd share it with you:


Read your piece villifying the Republican campaign.

Ms. Estrich, you are in dire need of acquiring some perspective for your writing. As it is, you simply embarrass yourself with these one-sided diatribes filtered through your liberal viewpoint.

It is curious that you could somehow get on your high horse and whine about the Republican campaign, given the conduct of the Democrats during the last six months. Apparently you suffer from the same selective retention with which most liberals seem to be afflicted.

I am, admittedly, a conservative. However I will listen to well thought out and factual opposing views. Some may even change my attitudes. However I can recognize the stench of demagogic propoganda when confronted with it and your piece on the campaign stinks to high heaven.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



P.S. I'm looking forward to a response, although I'm not holding my breath while I wait.

Excellent! I've seen her appear on Fox every week or so... you should copy them on the same questions. Maybe Hannity will quote you!

 

[Merlin1047]

i think this campaign will be the most nasty ever, with scandalous attacks from both sides (we've already seen) and many, many dirty tricks and half-lies and damned lies thrown about.

Let's start with this. To what lies do you refer? I can call up Democrat lies literally by the dozens without even trying very hard. What lies have the Republicans told? Did they lie about kerry's voting record? Did they lie about his attendance record? Nope, sorry. No luck there.

Did the SBVFT lie? No, they didn't. Kerry did. Besides, the SBVFT is not connected with the campaign or you can bet your boots that the Democrats would have found out by now.

So I don't know where you're getting your assertion that the campaign has been nasty from both sides. Yes, the third party campaign conducted by Moveon and SBVFT has been brutal, but at least the SBVFT has the facts on their side.

Zell miller took the stage for an address that the majority of americans (and the majority of republicans i know, not the message board posting partisans we all are) realized was an unfair, unsubstantiated attack on john kerry and his character, as well as some of the very traditions of our democracy

Please specify which of Sen. Miller's statements was either unfair or unsubstantiated. The fact that Sen. Miller pulled no punches and mounted a vicious frontal assault on kerry does not make Sen Miller unethical. It just makes him blunt. And the fact that you are uncomfortable with those remarks does not make them unsubstantiated or unfair.

Next, please explain to me how it is possible to mount an unfair or unsubstantiated attack on the character of john kerry. The man has lied and cheated his way throughout his life. He has no character.

no one's hands are going to be clean in this election, but in the past, the dems didn't wage dirty tricks campaigns as far as i know. with tensions so high now that isn't the case anymore.

So it's those evil Republicans forcing the Democrats to abandon their high-road ethics and get down into the mud. Surely you are not sufficiently naive to believe that they are the white knight of politics. As far as the two examples you cited, my guess is that the campaigns investigated them and found that there was nothing they could use. Otherwise we would have heard about it.

The current Democratic party did not spring up overnight like a magical toadstool. It has been there for generations. And it's morals and ethics did not deteriorate just for this campaign.

yet in 2002, the GOP leaders made the creation of the most expensive, most useless government agency ever (homeland security dept, a massive bueracracy now) a political issue and put out campaign ads painting democratic senators in league with bin laden and saddam hussein for opposing it (remember max cleeland, a blue dog democrat senator who was labled an ally of bin laden in those advertisements)

It is far too early to pronounce the Department of Homeland Security useless. That may be your opinion, but like most of the opinions contained in your post, you have failed to support it in any factual way. If the department prevents terrorist attacks and helps to destroy their network, then I will consider it a sound investment.

I don't recall any ads such as you describe, so I can't address your point on those.

so yea, the liberals are nuts, but so are the wacko cons on the right... as always, the people in the middle are forced to sit through this garbage which detracts from the real issues.

The Republican Party has conscientiously kept to the issues. They have attacked kerry's voting record, which is certainly a legitimate issue, his constant waffling and his attendance record. In his speech to the convention, George Bush presented his vision for the country. He did not attack kerry at all. But kerry immediately responded a few hours later with the same tired crap that he refuses to allow those who have not served to question his service. (YAWN)

so can we please stuff the holier than thou shit?

Good advice.