The debate on climate change is now over. The verdict: Too late to do anything about it!

[Paracetamol63]

Carboniferous Era. Atmospheric CO2 content around 7000 parts per million. Currently we're at a bit more than 400PPM.

But human society didn't exist then. And if it had developed in 7000ppm CO2 it wouldn't be a problem.

We developed our society in a relatively stable group of climates over the last 14,000 years. Local climate change has happened and often to devestating effect (see the Little Ice Age etc.) What happens when we GLOBALLY change climate quickly?

History tells us it usually isn't good.

Guess what didn't happen in the Carboniferous Era? CO2 didn't cause a runaway positive feedback loop that resulted in the planet burning to a crisp, killing all life. In fact, in that period, the greatest expansion of life this planet has ever seen happened. CO2 must not be all that bad!

Actually the greatest expansion of life was probably at the Pre-Cambrain/Cambrian explosion. But that doesn't address your point about the value of CO2. That isn't the topic. The topic is related to CHANGE in climate. If climate changes too quickly people are unable to adapt and bad things happen. Resources get constrained, agriculture suffers (while warmer more CO2 environments are not bad for plants, not all plants like the same conditions and that's agriculture. Ag requires that you know where you can plant your food crops. If the climate changes your food crops may n o longer grow.)

So it doesn't matter how high it's been before. No one is saying there's some "optimum" CO2 level...just that we need to keep it from warming us too quickly and changing the climate on us too fast to adapt to.

Does that makes sense?

 

[abu afak]

... My take on this as an ignorant non-climate expert is that One Hot Summer is does not portend the end of the world. We've had hotter ones and the word didn't end. The nearby lake dropped considerably, but all the water came back.

But if it is now settled science that it is too late to do anything, we can all stop stressing out about it. Thank God. Let's just enjoy the little time we have left. I propose that reasonably young and attractive women break away from the norms of modest dress, since we need to stay cool.

Just be careful: If Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama sell their beachfront property, don't buy it! They will offer it at a bargain price, because it will be under water very soon. Warm and acidic water, to boot!

This important article states later:

And we should be in no doubt about the consequences. Anything above 1.5C will see a world plagued by intense summer heat, extreme drought, devastating floods, reduced crop yields, rapidly melting ice sheets and surging sea levels. A rise of 2C and above will seriously threaten the stability of global society, McGuire argues.

Since many more men than women will die off early, in a futile attempt to save the planet, will we have to abandon the traditional monogamous sexual relationship, at least as far as men are concerned?

Regretfully, yes.

It should also be noted that according to the most hopeful estimates of emission cut pledges made at Cop26, the world is on course to heat up by between 2.4C and 3C.

Doh! I bet now those 400 COP26 bigwigs wish they had not flown to the summit in private jets!

Been nice knowing y'all. Let's keep this forum going until the lights go out, huh?

You are so ****** Ignorant.
"One hot summer"?
Obviously the author wrote it before this summer. (tho your link doesn't work)
and of course scientists/even deniers are looking at a graph since we started dumping GHGs intro the atmosphere.

The debate is over app 150 years, the Industrial Revolution emissions.
You being a raging Idiot and 100% Ignorant on every topic, have probably not even looked at it.
The debate is over whether the 150 years of warming was correlation or causation. NOT "One hot summer."

Among the True idiots here are many who deny it IS even warming!!! We can see them in threads like "The Skeptics are Winning," talking about one day/week's cold WEATHER/snow in their backyard/city.

Flops, OTOH, has Zero posting of anything substantial on the topic, if anything at all.
Citing one author hardly makes it so.
ANOTHER ldiotic blunder/fallacy.

There is however an Overwhelming consensus among Climate Scientists on the issue and NO Natl or Int Science org denies AGW. (man caused warming)
Not one.
So it is settled science, only the time spans of/between various stages of warmth/melting and whether it can be mitigated/stopped, and by what measures, in debate.
`

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[Woodznutz]

Carboniferous Era. Atmospheric CO2 content around 7000 parts per million. Currently we're at a bit more than 400PPM.

Oops.

"During the Carboniferous Period the atmosphere became greatly depleted of CO2 (declining from about 2500 ppm to 350 ppm) so that by the end of the Carboniferous the CO2-impoverished atmosphere was less favorable to plant life and plant growth slowed dramatically."

About CO2

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is the principal gas that trees and other plants need to survive, just like oxygen (O2) is the principal gas that humans and other animals require. Trees absorb CO2 and release…

iloveco2.com

 

[ReinyDays]

Science.

Liar ...

 

[Paracetamol63]

Liar ...

Science is not a lie. It is unfortunate that you have this view that science is somehow "evil".

 

[ReinyDays]

Science is not a lie. It is unfortunate that you have this view that science is somehow "evil".

Why should I believe a "Doctor of Geology" in any matter? ... the very existence of this account demonstrates you to be a filthy LIAR ...

 

[Paracetamol63]

Why should I believe a "Doctor of Geology" in any matter? ... the very existence of this account demonstrates you to be a filthy LIAR ...

You don't have to believe me at all.


In fact if you thought you did you were sorely mistaken from the beginning.

You might, however, wish to listen to the people who are actual experts on the subject. You know, the people you think you are smarter than?

 

[ding]

But human society didn't exist then. And if it had developed in 7000ppm CO2 it wouldn't be a problem.

Animal life did.

The Carboniferous Period

 

[ding]

We developed our society in a relatively stable group of climates over the last 14,000 years. Local climate change has happened and often to devestating effect (see the Little Ice Age etc.) What happens when we GLOBALLY change climate quickly?

History tells us it usually isn't good.

Which history would that be? Can you provide specifics?

 

[Paracetamol63]

Animal life did.

The Carboniferous Period

That's fine. It doesn't really change the point. There are few who think human-caused AGW will wipe out all life (yeah, I know there are some who say that but it isn't the standard line). The key is how AGW impacts human SOCIETY.

Sure we can (and are actively) decimating entire ecosystems right now in a variety of different ways completely apart from our pumping GHG's into the atmosphere. So yeah we will have an impact but the point isn't that there's some "optimum" climate. There isn't.

The problem is change in that climate.

And we are measurably doing it right now. We know from history what happens when local climates change (like the Little Ice Age which hit Europe and parts of the N H, or the multidecadal droughts that decimated the Mayan population in Mesoamerica) so that's the problem.

 

[ding]

The topic is related to CHANGE in climate. If climate changes too quickly people are unable to adapt and bad things happen. Resources get constrained, agriculture suffers (while warmer more CO2 environments are not bad for plants, not all plants like the same conditions and that's agriculture. Ag requires that you know where you can plant your food crops. If the climate changes your food crops may n o longer grow.)

I haven't seen any drastic changes in the earth's climate in my lifetime. We're still in the same ice age that started 3 million years ago. When will these drastic changes that you speak of occur? Besides as a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather.

 

[Paracetamol63]

Which history would that be? Can you provide specifics?

The Little Ice Age helped decimate the Feudal system in the UK once the LIA depopulated enough cities turning the value of labor into the dominant force. The bad part was the mass die off of people due to the agricultural problems brought on by the LIA.

The Mayan civilization probably collapsed when they started to suffer multidecadal droughts.

That's just two examples. There are many others.

 

[Paracetamol63]

We're still in the same ice age that started 3 million years ago. When will these drastic changes that you speak of occur? Besides as a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather.

You are living it now. You and I probably won't see the worst of it. We are at the thin end of the wedge.

We KNOW for a fact the surface temperature has increased overall. You can't put more energy into the atmosphere and oceans and NOT expect significant change to occur.

 

[ding]

That's fine. It doesn't really change the point. There are few who think human-caused AGW will wipe out all life (yeah, I know there are some who say that but it isn't the standard line). The key is how AGW impacts human SOCIETY.

Sure we can (and are actively) decimating entire ecosystems right now in a variety of different ways completely apart from our pumping GHG's into the atmosphere. So yeah we will have an impact but the point isn't that there's some "optimum" climate. There isn't.

The problem is change in that climate.

And we are measurably doing it right now. We know from history what happens when local climates change (like the Little Ice Age which hit Europe and parts of the N H, or the multidecadal droughts that decimated the Mayan population in Mesoamerica) so that's the problem.

It kind of does change the point. As a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather. A warmer planet means a wetter planet. Life is incredibly adaptable. We experience drastic swings every year due to the seasons. Much more drastic than a 1C change in temperature over a hundred years. How will a 1C change over a hundred years prevent life from adapting to slightly warmer temperatures?

 

[Paracetamol63]

It kind of does change the point. As a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather. A warmer planet means a wetter planet. Life is incredibly adaptable. We experience drastic swings every year due to the seasons. Much more drastic than a 1C change in temperature over a hundred years. How will a 1C change over a hundred years prevent life from adapting to slightly warmer temperatures?

Apparently I was unable to explain the point sufficiently clearly. My apologies.

I will just leave it. My description was apt but apparently it didn't land.

Sorry.

 

[ding]

The Little Ice Age helped decimate the Feudal system in the UK once the LIA depopulated enough cities turning the value of labor into the dominant force. The bad part was the mass die off of people due to the agricultural problems brought on by the LIA.

The Mayan civilization probably collapsed when they started to suffer multidecadal droughts.

That's just two examples. There are many others.

I agree that colder is worse than warmer. We're only 1 to 2 C away from having extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation which would displace 250 million people and cover large portions of NA, Asia and Europe in thousands of feet thick ice sheets.

 

[ReinyDays]

I haven't seen any drastic changes in the earth's climate in my lifetime. We're still in the same ice age that started 3 million years ago. When will these drastic changes that you speak of occur? Besides as a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather.

Now compare this to society in general ... 3 million years ago, humans were still feeding on the parasites foraging on their neighbors' fur ... just 30 years ago, the human genome was largely unknown ...

Just 3 weeks ago, we were living in a Queendom ...

 

[ding]

Now compare this to society in general ... 3 million years ago, humans were still feeding on the parasites foraging on their neighbors' fur ... just 30 years ago, the human genome was largely unknown ...

Just 3 weeks ago, we were living in a Queendom ...

I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

 

[Woodznutz]

It kind of does change the point. As a rule plants and animals thrive in warmer weather. A warmer planet means a wetter planet. Life is incredibly adaptable. We experience drastic swings every year due to the seasons. Much more drastic than a 1C change in temperature over a hundred years. How will a 1C change over a hundred years prevent life from adapting to slightly warmer temperatures?

The earth will likely adapt, but it will become a hostile place for humans.

 

[Paracetamol63]

I agree that colder is worse than warmer.

I didn't say that. In some cases warmer could be much worse.

We're only 1 to 2 C away from having extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation which would displace 250 million people and cover large portions of NA, Asia and Europe in thousands of feet thick ice sheets.

Yes, we know what happens on THAT side of the distribution. We don't have a handy word yet for what our society will have to deal with if the temperature goes a couple of degrees warmer globally.