You act like it was a competition. You do not know how badly the irish slaves were treated. Whether they were treated "as bad" is irrelevant. It was bad for them. Nobody should have been in bondage.
The Chinese Coolies were slaves. Do they deserve reparations?
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Asclepias
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" You do not know how badly the irish slaves were treated. Whether they were treated "as bad" is irrelevant. "
It was definitely no competition.
All I need to know is that they were not treated as bad as enslaved Blacks. It may be irrelevant to you because youre white but its not to me.
And blacks had slaves too.
You do NOT know if they were treated better. Its irrelevant because all were human beings, none deserved to be enslaved.
Asclepias
Diamond Member
Of course I know if they were treated better right off the bat. They were free after their contracted time. Their children werent born slaves. They had rights.
Not all were indentured
Black people should have taken the Black Platinum Plan. I'm Black voted for Trump he was going to provide seed money in the form of business loans and grants, money for Black Inventors. They don't want ish at all but to complaint. Why would you walk away from investment to beg libby's and Dems.
marvin martian
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The ironic thing about this is that one of the places screeching the loudest about reparations for black people, San Francisco, was built largely with Chinese slave labor.
Paul Essien
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MarathonMike
I don't see Chinese Americans saying a peep about how horribly their ancestors were treated during the Coolie slave days. The same can be said for the Irish and other nationalities. Why is it just Black people feel entitled to cash in on the past?
To compare a people whose identity and nation and culture have been intact for over a THOUSAND YEARS and is still INTACT with a people who were enslaved for 500 YEARS and in the process were ROBBED of their identity, culture, nation, land, religion, and ability to govern their own lives under their own national banner, flag, and land
is just plain STUPID.
Especially when those same (black) people are still under attack by white supremacists who seem to devote the majority of their time and energies to making sure black people stay inferior via inferior living environments, education, healthcare, food quality, water quality, endless promotion of destructive programming and stereotyping via the white mainstream media (TV and films and music they control), deliberate drug infestations,m police terror tactics, and excessive and unjust incarcerations,
Isn't it funny how this common "Look how great the Asians are doing" line is rarely said by Asians themselves ?
I don't see Chinese Americans saying a peep about how horribly their ancestors were treated during the Coolie slave days. The same can be said for the Irish and other nationalities. Why is it just Black people feel entitled to cash in on the past?
To compare a people whose identity and nation and culture have been intact for over a THOUSAND YEARS and is still INTACT with a people who were enslaved for 500 YEARS and in the process were ROBBED of their identity, culture, nation, land, religion, and ability to govern their own lives under their own national banner, flag, and land
is just plain STUPID.
Especially when those same (black) people are still under attack by white supremacists who seem to devote the majority of their time and energies to making sure black people stay inferior via inferior living environments, education, healthcare, food quality, water quality, endless promotion of destructive programming and stereotyping via the white mainstream media (TV and films and music they control), deliberate drug infestations,m police terror tactics, and excessive and unjust incarcerations,
Isn't it funny how this common "Look how great the Asians are doing" line is rarely said by Asians themselves ?
Tom Paine 1949
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I certainly agree that by the early 1800s most black slaves living in the South were uniquely and hopelessly oppressed, their descendants doomed to eternal slavery, their “families” torn apart, their very humanity rendered moot.
There is simply no comparison with the experience we associate with waves of ordinary immigrants, who generally rose to the status of American citizens and “whites” … in a generation or less. The black experience was far, far more destructive in America than the oppression and exploitation of later Irish or often non-English speaking Italians, Poles, etc. Of course every group was different, some already educated, skilled, organized.
Native Americans of course, and Asians (in the 19th century and early 20th century), were in their own separate categories.
No discussion of “reparations” would be complete without recognizing cases where reparations have been granted, for example …
“In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 which officially apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government and authorized a payment of $20,000 (equivalent to $44,000 in 2020) to each former internee who was still alive when the act was passed.”
Of course this was a relatively simple matter of compensating living individuals who suffered from a specific government policy. Historical matters of past generations’ suffering is far more complex, especially when they are linked intimately to contemporary political and hot-button partisan issues.
I am not a supporter of broad “reparations” for past racial slavery & Jim Crow & African American’s real systemic oppression and exclusion from opportunity others enjoyed. Why? Mostly because I think it is a hopeless / even suicidal demand given U.S. political reality.
It is also morally inadequate — no money can compensate for such suffering. Nor is it obvious how or exactly to whom compensation should be granted. There are better ways, imho.
Common humanity, affirmative action, social programs that help all the poor with real benefits & opportunities, respect & understanding for those who still suffer in one way or another from centuries of oppression and attacks from racism — these can and will go a long way. If only we have the courage to continue to fight against reaction, if only we don’t lose our nerve or our heads, if we work hard at treating each other with respect, we will continue to see progress in our country.
There is simply no comparison with the experience we associate with waves of ordinary immigrants, who generally rose to the status of American citizens and “whites” … in a generation or less. The black experience was far, far more destructive in America than the oppression and exploitation of later Irish or often non-English speaking Italians, Poles, etc. Of course every group was different, some already educated, skilled, organized.
Native Americans of course, and Asians (in the 19th century and early 20th century), were in their own separate categories.
No discussion of “reparations” would be complete without recognizing cases where reparations have been granted, for example …
“In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 which officially apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government and authorized a payment of $20,000 (equivalent to $44,000 in 2020) to each former internee who was still alive when the act was passed.”
Of course this was a relatively simple matter of compensating living individuals who suffered from a specific government policy. Historical matters of past generations’ suffering is far more complex, especially when they are linked intimately to contemporary political and hot-button partisan issues.
I am not a supporter of broad “reparations” for past racial slavery & Jim Crow & African American’s real systemic oppression and exclusion from opportunity others enjoyed. Why? Mostly because I think it is a hopeless / even suicidal demand given U.S. political reality.
It is also morally inadequate — no money can compensate for such suffering. Nor is it obvious how or exactly to whom compensation should be granted. There are better ways, imho.
Common humanity, affirmative action, social programs that help all the poor with real benefits & opportunities, respect & understanding for those who still suffer in one way or another from centuries of oppression and attacks from racism — these can and will go a long way. If only we have the courage to continue to fight against reaction, if only we don’t lose our nerve or our heads, if we work hard at treating each other with respect, we will continue to see progress in our country.
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IM2
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That plan was a lie.
IM2
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Irish were never slaves and blacks bought mostly enslaved family members. Your argument is disingenuous, but that's all you have got.
IM2
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The Irish slave is one of the greatest falsehoods that has manifested itself in the discourse about racism in America. For years I even believed that. I remember reading a book titled “Trinity” written by Leon Uris about a fictional hero of the Irish resistance named Conor Larkin. The story detailed the treatment of the Irish from the 1700’s until the 1916 uprising. After reading that book, I was convinced that the Irish had it just as bad as blacks. Yes, the Irish were treated terribly in Europe and when they first came to America. But they were not slaves. Irish historians such as Liam Hogan have made this crystal clear.
From 2015 until 2019, Liam Hogan compiled some 52 different articles debunking the tale of Irish slavery. The intent here is not to denigrate nonracist Irish citizens of this country, but to destroy a popular white supremacist meme that has plagued social media and American culture for years. According to Hogan and other Irish historians in his compilation, the Irish were indentured servants and not slaves. The fallacy in the white supremacist argument lies in the fact that indentured servitude was a contractual agreement made between 2 or more parties. One party agreed that for payment of passage to America, the individual(s) would work for a specified term to repay the cost of passage. To say it was not much better than slavery is simply a lie. Slavery was permanent. Slavery was also generational. If you we born into a slave family, you were a slave. When you had children, they were slaves. There was no 7 years and a headright.
“The tale of the Irish slaves is rooted in a false conflation of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. These are not the same. Indentured servitude was a form of bonded labour, whereby a migrant agreed to work for a set period of time (between two and seven years) and in return the cost of the voyage across the Atlantic was covered. Indentured servitude was a colonial innovation that enabled many to emigrate to the New World while providing a cheap and white labour force for planters and merchants to exploit. Those who completed their term of service were awarded ‘freedom dues’ and were free. The vast majority of labourers who agreed to this system did so voluntarily, but there were many who were forcibly transplanted from the British Isles to the colonies and sold into indentured service against their will. While these forced deportees would have included political prisoners and serious felons, it is believed that the majority came from the poor and vulnerable. This forced labour was in essence an extension of the English Poor Laws, e.g. in 1697. John Locke recommended the whipping of those who ‘refused to work’ and the herding of beggars into workhouses. Indeed this criminalisation of the poor continues into the 21st century. In any case, all bar the serious felons were freed once the term of their contract expired.”
Liam Hogan, Irish slaves’: the convenient myth, ‘Irish slaves’: the convenient myth
Eoin O'Carroll, No, the Irish were not slaves in the Americas, Christian Science Monitor, March 16, 2018, No, the Irish were not slaves in the Americas
Art McDonald, Ph.D., How the Irish Became White,
“I conservatively estimate that tens of millions of people have been exposed to ‘Irish slaves’ disinformation in one form or another on social media.”
Liam Hogan
Liam Hogan
From 2015 until 2019, Liam Hogan compiled some 52 different articles debunking the tale of Irish slavery. The intent here is not to denigrate nonracist Irish citizens of this country, but to destroy a popular white supremacist meme that has plagued social media and American culture for years. According to Hogan and other Irish historians in his compilation, the Irish were indentured servants and not slaves. The fallacy in the white supremacist argument lies in the fact that indentured servitude was a contractual agreement made between 2 or more parties. One party agreed that for payment of passage to America, the individual(s) would work for a specified term to repay the cost of passage. To say it was not much better than slavery is simply a lie. Slavery was permanent. Slavery was also generational. If you we born into a slave family, you were a slave. When you had children, they were slaves. There was no 7 years and a headright.
“The tale of the Irish slaves is rooted in a false conflation of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. These are not the same. Indentured servitude was a form of bonded labour, whereby a migrant agreed to work for a set period of time (between two and seven years) and in return the cost of the voyage across the Atlantic was covered. Indentured servitude was a colonial innovation that enabled many to emigrate to the New World while providing a cheap and white labour force for planters and merchants to exploit. Those who completed their term of service were awarded ‘freedom dues’ and were free. The vast majority of labourers who agreed to this system did so voluntarily, but there were many who were forcibly transplanted from the British Isles to the colonies and sold into indentured service against their will. While these forced deportees would have included political prisoners and serious felons, it is believed that the majority came from the poor and vulnerable. This forced labour was in essence an extension of the English Poor Laws, e.g. in 1697. John Locke recommended the whipping of those who ‘refused to work’ and the herding of beggars into workhouses. Indeed this criminalisation of the poor continues into the 21st century. In any case, all bar the serious felons were freed once the term of their contract expired.”
Liam Hogan
Liam Hogan, All of my work on the “Irish slaves” meme (2015–’19),
Liam Hogan, Irish slaves’: the convenient myth, ‘Irish slaves’: the convenient myth
Eoin O'Carroll, No, the Irish were not slaves in the Americas, Christian Science Monitor, March 16, 2018, No, the Irish were not slaves in the Americas
Art McDonald, Ph.D., How the Irish Became White,
IM2
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Reparations are not just for slavery. It is for convict leasing, black codes, sundown towns, lynching , bombings of black homes and killing entire families, restrictive covenants, redlining, denial of GI Bill Benefits, Apartheid, contract selling, government public policy, racist housing policy, racist investment policies, the purposeful destruction of black banks, retail redlining and every form of voter suppression. All of that happened after slavery.
Reparations have been paid to others. We deserve them too.
Reparations have been paid to others. We deserve them too.
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I agree that slavery was bad. But we know that many, if not all groups, had horrible things happen to them at some period in history.
The Jews are a prime example. They were mistreated almost everywhere they appeared, it seems. They were used as slave labor, they were tortured, used in scientific experiments, killed by gas pumped into showers, buried in mass graves, had their bodies disposed of in ovens and much more. THEY were horribly treated, over THOUSANDS of years.
In spite of all this, Jews have managed to survive, thrive, and excel in every area of life. They are the most amazing people on the planet, imo. I've known quite a few Jews, in many different situations over a lot of years. I have never heard a Jew whine about how badly others have treated them.
Instead, they work to educate themselves, enter a profession or start a business. And continue working to make a success of themselves.
I know loads and loads of blacks too. They, in contrast, seem utterly incapable of doing any of these things, in order to help themselves. There are a few exceptions, of course.
But it seems that the more bleeding hearted liberals cry about the poor, poor, blacks and how badly they've been treated, the less blacks are willing to do to try and help themselves. They seem to have totally bought into the idea of themselves as the world's most pathetic and helpless victims. Many have turned whining into a full time career. At this point it looks as though blacks will never find the self-motivation or strength to work hard and stand on their own two feet.
They've been trained, over many, many, decades that it's easier and much more profitable to riot and steal and ***** and moan and, most of all, to blame ****** for even the smallest thing that doesn't go their way in life. Bleeding hearts have turned blacks into a breed of helpless weaklings, capable only of wallowing in disgusting self pity.
Only blacks, themselves, can change their situation. If they can find the will, the strength and, the determination.to do so.
Reparations? **** no. Enough is enough. Time for the ******* whining and self-pity to end.
The Jews are a prime example. They were mistreated almost everywhere they appeared, it seems. They were used as slave labor, they were tortured, used in scientific experiments, killed by gas pumped into showers, buried in mass graves, had their bodies disposed of in ovens and much more. THEY were horribly treated, over THOUSANDS of years.
In spite of all this, Jews have managed to survive, thrive, and excel in every area of life. They are the most amazing people on the planet, imo. I've known quite a few Jews, in many different situations over a lot of years. I have never heard a Jew whine about how badly others have treated them.
Instead, they work to educate themselves, enter a profession or start a business. And continue working to make a success of themselves.
I know loads and loads of blacks too. They, in contrast, seem utterly incapable of doing any of these things, in order to help themselves. There are a few exceptions, of course.
But it seems that the more bleeding hearted liberals cry about the poor, poor, blacks and how badly they've been treated, the less blacks are willing to do to try and help themselves. They seem to have totally bought into the idea of themselves as the world's most pathetic and helpless victims. Many have turned whining into a full time career. At this point it looks as though blacks will never find the self-motivation or strength to work hard and stand on their own two feet.
They've been trained, over many, many, decades that it's easier and much more profitable to riot and steal and ***** and moan and, most of all, to blame ****** for even the smallest thing that doesn't go their way in life. Bleeding hearts have turned blacks into a breed of helpless weaklings, capable only of wallowing in disgusting self pity.
Only blacks, themselves, can change their situation. If they can find the will, the strength and, the determination.to do so.
Reparations? **** no. Enough is enough. Time for the ******* whining and self-pity to end.
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IM2
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Tell that to the native Americans you pay every year. Most Jews are white. We are owed reparations and it's time whites stopped whining about how we aren't.
Unkotare
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Nothing stirs the competitive juices more than a game of "Who's More the Victim"? The price to buy into the game is a complete lack of self-respect.
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