Zone1 The Chair of St Peter is empty.. which explains a lot of things RE Catholicism

[notmyfault2020]

It became apparent to me at a very young age there was a differences between wishes and prayer; that any prayers for physical healing/corrections were wishes, not prayers. God is not a genii, He is God, fully Spirit. He is the Healer of the spirit. He responds to spiritual matters.

In the four-year prayer I mentioned, it was indeed a spiritual matter, and long enough for me to be puzzled over being ignored (or so I thought). It wasn't until the prayer was answered that I was able to see that what I thought was a one-step problem, actually had many facets, and each facet needed a bit of adjustment until the entire unit clicked into place. It was an amazing insight into how God works...quietly, with great delicacy, remaining unnoticed.

My theory is that God is more shy than even I am (which says a lot). I had to grin, thinking, It must be true we are made in His image and likeness...my own shyness is proof!

well, I don't argue with your experiences.. no one can do that of course

But I don't think God is shy.. depending on how u define the word. In any case, I have had experiences in spiritual matters that no one would believe if I told them.. so I don't tell them. I do try to tell people what is important for getting to Heaven. We have to tell people that. If they don't listen, that is on them.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Until hitlers death, his birthday was celebrated from the pulpit every year. The Vatican hosted social events and glorified him under guess what pope.

I am not going to read the kind of garbage I have read or heard many times b4.. Nothing is more lied about than the CAtholic Church! This is something I have learned over the course of many years being a practicing Catholic.. never have seen so many lies against one organization! It's almost unbelievable.

Believe what you want. Only Catholics know what is truly wrong with their Church. And even some of them don't

 

[Polishprince]

I have been all over the board, religion and faith-wise. I consider myself an expert on Catholicism and related matters, even though "I get no respect" as Dangerfield used to say.

I consider myself an expert in large part because SO many others, whether Catholic or P do not seem to know what I know.. do not seem to have read the books I have read, etc..

So anyhow, I have tried to follow the arguments of those who say that the Chair of Peter is not vacant just because.. I dunno.. just bc the pope says stupid, un-Catholic things and acts like he cares more about the environement and other extraneous matters than hedoes about guiding people to Heaven..

Well, I am back to where I was years ago: Sedavacantism: which means: theChair [of St Peter] is vacant-- that there has not been a valid pope since Pius XII (Please do not derail this thread by bringing up dumbass allegations made against Pius XII who was a good pope andsaved the lives of many Jews during WWII. This is not about that)

There is no way a heretic can be pope. The Church once taught that. But the Church (that everyone is familiar with, run by Francis) has gone off the rails, has not been teaching pure Jesus (as it were) since 1958.

So anyhow.. wondering if there are any other Catholics here who agree?

The reason why the chair of Peter is vacant, is because Pope Francis is in a wheelchair due to his ongoing mobility difficulties. St. Peter was around before the ADA was passed, and his furniture really isn't handicapped accessible.

 

[notmyfault2020]

The reason why the chair of Peter is vacant, is because Pope Francis is in a wheelchair due to his ongoing mobility difficulties. St. Peter was around before the ADA was passed, and his furniture really isn't handicapped accessible.

no, the Chair of Peter is vacant because no heretic can be pope (that was taught [I believe.. formally) before Vatican II but the anti-Christs at the Council decided God needed a make-over)

 

[Here and there]

I am not going to read the kind of garbage I have read or heard many times b4..

You can res arch that and find it is not garbage. It might be confronting but it is fact that should be acknowledged.

Nothing is more lied about than the CAtholic Church!

I wonder why.

This is something I have learned over the course of many years being a practicing Catholic.. never have seen so many lies against one organization! It's almost unbelievable.

Catholicism is the most violent abhorrent religion ever invented. I note you said it's almost unbelievable. That's because it is all believable by your own words.

Believe what you want. Only Catholics know what is truly wrong with their Church. And even some of them don't

What's you view in paedophilia and homosexuality that is rife in the clergy?
What has the church done to eradicate that other than moving kiddy fiddler's to a new parish?
I won't go into the horrible details because you already know them. It's your refusal to correct them in the name of some silly god which is the problem.

I is unwise to dismiss the history of Catholicism when it is well documented through out history.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You can res arch that and find it is not garbage. It might be confronting but it is fact that should be acknowledged.

I wonder why.

Catholicism is the most violent abhorrent religion ever invented. I note you said it's almost unbelievable. That's because it is all believable by your own words.

What's you view in paedophilia and homosexuality that is rife in the clergy?
What has the church done to eradicate that other than moving kiddy fiddler's to a new parish?
I won't go into the horrible details because you already know them. It's your refusal to correct them in the name of some silly god which is the problem.

I is unwise to dismiss the history of Catholicism when it is well documented through out history.

Right, I mean the Catholics literally ripped the beating hearts out of people to please their god.

Oh wait, that was the Aztecs.

Well, they slaughtered 10,000 virgin girls to ensure a good harvest. Oops, that was the Ba'al worshippers of Babylon.


Hmm, looks like your claim is false and just more Christophobic bigotry.....

 

[Here and there]

Right, I mean the Catholics literally ripped the beating hearts out of people to please their god.

Oh wait, that was the Aztecs.

Well, they slaughtered 10,000 virgin girls to ensure a good harvest. Oops, that was the Ba'al worshippers of Babylon.


Hmm, looks like your claim is false and just more Christophobic bigotry.....

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Old testament if you want to normalise slaughters.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Old testament if you want to normalise slaughters.

I know it well.

First off, your claim is "Christians," and secondly NOTHING in the Old Testament even comes close.

I also suggest that you familiarize yourself with a spell checker is you want to normalize your spelling.

 

[notmyfault2020]

What's you view in paedophilia -- is rife in the clergy?

so if I tell you that there is twice as much of that in the non-Catholic "churches" you will refuse to believe it just bc Catholics: bad, Non-Catholics: always good.

figures

 

[Uncensored2008]

so if I tell you that there is twice as much of that in the non-Catholic "churches" you will refuse to believe it just bc Catholics: bad, Non-Catholics: always good.

figures

What you claim is false. And there are a lot of reasons for it.

But first I want to point out that the Catholic Church is a drop in the bucket - the real hotbed of sexual abuse is the public schools.

The reason that the instances of sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests is is so much higher than among protestants is two fold - first is celibacy - which will draw those with unhealthy views about sex into the clergy. The second is that Catholicism is monolithic. A Pentecostal preacher who abuses a child isn't going to be protected by Bishops and Cardinals, because they don't exist in most protestant churches, There is no hierarchy capable of engaging in the coverups that Catholics (and public schools) engaged in. The institution protected abusers. Without the institution, there is no protection.

Public school employees are vastly more likely to be child molesters than Catholic priests are.

Catholic priests far more likely to be molesters than protestant ministers are. Ministers won't get away with it. Priests are less likely to get away with it than teachers. Molesters flock to public schools, because that's where the kids are.

 

[notmyfault2020]

What you claim is false. And there are a lot of reasons for it.

But first I want to point out that the Catholic Church is a drop in the bucket - the real hotbed of sexual abuse is the public schools.

The reason that the instances of sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests is is so much higher than among protestants is two fold - first is celibacy -

i will stop right here.

Celibacy, for the 1000th time, is NOT the problem. Most molesters are married men.

Now maybe I can respond to the rest

 

[Uncensored2008]

i will stop right here.

Celibacy, for the 1000th time, is NOT the problem. Most molesters are married men.

Now maybe I can respond to the rest

Really? No doubt you can support this with facts?

 

[Here and there]

so if I tell you that there is twice as much of that in the non-Catholic "churches" you will refuse to believe it just bc Catholics: bad, Non-Catholics: always good.

figures

Now I'm getting through to you.

But that mealy mouthed reply is proof you don't want to address it be sure you mightn't get to heaven.

 

[notmyfault2020]

.

Catholic priests far more likely to be molesters than protestant ministers are.

That is NOT true. I have read (and I do not read trashy, unsubstantiated, fact-free bs) from 2 difference news sources not fake news.. that the protestant "churches" (but there is only ONE Church founded by Christ) have TWICE the rate of child molestation than the Catholic Church.

The reason you only hear about Catholic "priests" being guilty or possibly guilty (accused) is because

NEWSFLASH!

The mainstream media DESPISES conservativsm and the Catholic Church is the ultimate representation of conservativism/Christianity

 

[notmyfault2020]

Really? No doubt you can support this with facts?

of course. I have read up on this and again, I am very selective about what I read.

It has been shown in numerous magazines and newspapers (reliable ones) that most child molesters are MARRIED men.

A lot of serial murderers who got into sick porn were married.. Bundy (or maybe she was just a GF) so scratch that.. Dayton LeRoy Rogers was married and I could go on.. You say yourself that the public schools have a lot of molesters.. Well, most who work therein are married..

 

[Uncensored2008]

That is NOT true. I have read (and I do not read trashy, unsubstantiated, fact-free bs) from 2 difference news sources not fake news.. that the protestant "churches" (but there is only ONE Church founded by Christ) have TWICE the rate of child molestation than the Catholic Church.

The reason you only hear about Catholic "priests" being guilty or possibly guilty (accused) is because

NEWSFLASH!

The mainstream media DESPISES conservativsm and the Catholic Church is the ultimate representation of conservativism/Christianity

The Catholic church is a Marxist organization - the Borgia Pope is an open Marxist. Nothing "conservative" about Catholics.

If Christ founded his Church - it wasn't based on the Romans who put him to death for preaching.

----------------------------------------------

Out of love for the truth and from desire to elucidate it, the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and Sacred Theology, and ordinary lecturer therein at Wittenberg, intends to defend the following statements and to dispute on them in that place. Therefore he asks that those who cannot be present and dispute with him orally shall do so in their absence by letter. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

1. When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, ``Repent'' (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.
2. This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.
3. Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.
4. The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
5. The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.
6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.
7. God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.
8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
9. Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
10. Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.
11. Those tares of changing the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory were evidently sown while the bishops slept (Mt 13:25).
12. In former times canonical penalties were imposed, not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.
13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties, are already dead as far as the canon laws are concerned, and have a right to be released from them.
14. Imperfect piety or love on the part of the dying person necessarily brings with it great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater the fear.
15. This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, to say nothing of other things, to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.
16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ the same as despair, fear, and assurance of salvation.
17. It seems as though for the souls in purgatory fear should necessarily decrease and love increase.
18. Furthermore, it does not seem proved, either by reason or by Scripture, that souls in purgatory are outside the state of merit, that is, unable to grow in love.
19. Nor does it seem proved that souls in purgatory, at least not all of them, are certain and assured of their own salvation, even if we ourselves may be entirely certain of it.
20. Therefore the pope, when he uses the words ``plenary remission of all penalties,'' does not actually mean ``all penalties,'' but only those imposed by himself.
21. Thus those indulgence preachers are in error who say that a man is absolved from every penalty and saved by papal indulgences.
22. As a matter of fact, the pope remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to canon law, they should have paid in this life.
23. If remission of all penalties whatsoever could be granted to anyone at all, certainly it would be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to very few.
24. For this reason most people are necessarily deceived by that indiscriminate and high-sounding promise of release from penalty.
25. That power which the pope has in general over purgatory corresponds to the power which any bishop or curate has in a particular way in his own diocese and parish.
26. The pope does very well when he grants remission to souls in purgatory, not by the power of the keys, which he does not have, but by way of intercession for them.
27. They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.
28. It is certain that when money clinks in the money chest, greed and avarice can be increased; but when the church intercedes, the result is in the hands of God alone.
29. Who knows whether all souls in purgatory wish to be redeemed, since we have exceptions in St. Severinus and St. Paschal, as related in a legend.
30. No one is sure of the integrity of his own contrition, much less of having received plenary remission.
31. The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.
32. Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.
33. Men must especially be on guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to him.
34. For the graces of indulgences are concerned only with the penalties of sacramental satisfaction established by man.
35. They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.
36. Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without indulgence letters.
37. Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.
38. Nevertheless, papal remission and blessing are by no means to be disregarded, for they are, as I have said (Thesis 6), the proclamation of the divine remission.
39. It is very difficult, even for the most learned theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the bounty of indulgences and the need of true contrition.
40. A Christian who is truly contrite seeks and loves to pay penalties for his sins; the bounty of indulgences, however, relaxes penalties and causes men to hate them -- at least it furnishes occasion for hating them.
41. Papal indulgences must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think that they are preferable to other good works of love.
42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.
43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.
44. Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of indulgences but is merely freed from penalties.
45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.
46. Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.
47. Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.
48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.
49. Christians are to be taught that papal indulgences are useful only if they do not put their trust in them, but very harmful if they lose their fear of God because of them.
50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep.
51. Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.
52. It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.
53. They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.
54. Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or larger amount of time is devoted to indulgences than to the Word.
55. It is certainly the pope's sentiment that if indulgences, which are a very insignificant thing, are celebrated with one bell, one procession, and one ceremony, then the gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.
56. The true treasures of the church, out of which the pope distributes indulgences, are not sufficiently discussed or known among the people of Christ.
57. That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.
58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, for, even without the pope, the latter always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outer man.
59. St. Lawrence said that the poor of the church were the treasures of the church, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.
60. Without want of consideration we say that the keys of the church, given by the merits of Christ, are that treasure.
61. For it is clear that the pope's power is of itself sufficient for the remission of penalties and cases reserved by himself.
62. The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.
63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last (Mt. 20:16).
64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.
65. Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for men of wealth.
66. The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.
67. The indulgences which the demagogues acclaim as the greatest graces are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote gain.
68. They are nevertheless in truth the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross.
69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.
70. But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears lest these men preach their own dreams instead of what the pope has commissioned.
71. Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.
72. But let him who guards against the lust and license of the indulgence preachers be blessed.
73. Just as the pope justly thunders against those who by any means whatever contrive harm to the sale of indulgences.
74. Much more does he intend to thunder against those who use indulgences as a pretext to contrive harm to holy love and truth.
75. To consider papal indulgences so great that they could absolve a man even if he had done the impossible and had violated the mother of God is madness.
76. We say on the contrary that papal indulgences cannot remove the very least of venial sins as far as guilt is concerned.
77. To say that even St. Peter if he were now pope, could not grant greater graces is blasphemy against St. Peter and the pope.
78. We say on the contrary that even the present pope, or any pope whatsoever, has greater graces at his disposal, that is, the gospel, spiritual powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written. (1 Co 12[:28])
79. To say that the cross emblazoned with the papal coat of arms, and set up by the indulgence preachers is equal in worth to the cross of Christ is blasphemy.
80. The bishops, curates, and theologians who permit such talk to be spread among the people will have to answer for this.
81. This unbridled preaching of indulgences makes it difficult even for learned men to rescue the reverence which is due the pope from slander or from the shrewd questions of the laity.
82. Such as: ``Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church?'' The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.
83. Again, ``Why are funeral and anniversary masses for the dead continued and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded for them, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?''
84. Again, ``What is this new piety of God and the pope that for a consideration of money they permit a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God and do not rather, beca use of the need of that pious and beloved soul, free it for pure love's sake?''
85. Again, ``Why are the penitential canons, long since abrogated and dead in actual fact and through disuse, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences as though they were still alive and in force?''
86. Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''
87. Again, ``What does the pope remit or grant to those who by perfect contrition already have a right to full remission and blessings?''
88. Again, ``What greater blessing could come to the church than if the pope were to bestow these remissions and blessings on every believer a hundred times a day, as he now does but once?''
89. ``Since the pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?''
90. To repress these very sharp arguments of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies and to make Christians unhappy.
91. If, therefore, indulgences were preached according to the spirit and intention of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved. Indeed, they would not exist.
92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Peace, peace,'' and there is no peace! (Jer 6:14)
93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Cross, cross,'' and there is no cross!
94. Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, death and hell.
95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven through many tribulations rather than through the false security of peace (Acts 14:22).

 

[notmyfault2020]

The Catholic church is a Marxist organization - the Borgia Pope is an open Marxist. Nothing "conservative" about Catholics.


22).

You obviously haven't read my other posts/threads. I am NOT behind the current pope and readily admit he is not the first bad one the Church has had. I could just as easily bring up.. i dunno... Jim Baker, Protestant.. Swaggart, Protestant.. Jim Jones, Protestaant.. HealthWealth&Prosperity guru Joel Olsteen..

but I won't.



If a Church could be validly vilified by it's members and absolutely tossed aside bc of them,, Jesus would never have bothered to "build" a Church at all. "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Jesus is God so presumably He knew human nature enough to be able to predict such things as bad popes.. heretics..

Sorry, but such are not an excuse to ditch Jesus's ONE Church.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You obviously haven't read my other posts/threads. I am NOT behind the current pope and readily admit he is not the first bad one the Church has had. I could just as easily bring up.. i dunno... Jim Baker, Protestant.. Swaggart, Protestant.. Jim Jones, Protestaant.. HealthWealth&Prosperity guru Joel Olsteen..

but I won't.



If a Church could be validly vilified by it's members and absolutely tossed aside bc of them,, Jesus would never have bothered to "build" a Church at all. "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Jesus is God so presumably He knew human nature enough to be able to predict such things as bad popes.. heretics..

Sorry, but such are not an excuse to ditch Jesus's ONE Church.

I reject both sides.

Jesus never existed, Saul of Tarsus invented Christianity. Peter never went to Rome, it's absurd to claim a Judean fisherman would - a Pontiff is the high priest of ZEUS. Catholicism is just Roman paganism with a thin veneer of Christianity on top. Constantine highjacked Paul's cult for his own political gain.

Olsteen is a scumbag, Jim Jones was a cult - not Christian.

 

[zaangalewa]

The Catholic church is a Marxist organization - the Borgia Pope is an open Marxist. Nothing "conservative" about Catholics.

If Christ founded his Church - it wasn't based on the Romans who put him to death for preaching.

----------------------------------------------

Out of love for the truth and from desire to elucidate it, the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and Sacred Theology, and ordinary lecturer therein at Wittenberg, intends to defend the following statements and to dispute on them in that place. Therefore he asks that those who cannot be present and dispute with him orally shall do so in their absence by letter. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

1. When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, ``Repent'' (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.
2. This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.
3. Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.
4. The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
5. The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.
6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.
7. God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.
8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
9. Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
10. Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.
11. Those tares of changing the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory were evidently sown while the bishops slept (Mt 13:25).
12. In former times canonical penalties were imposed, not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.
13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties, are already dead as far as the canon laws are concerned, and have a right to be released from them.
14. Imperfect piety or love on the part of the dying person necessarily brings with it great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater the fear.
15. This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, to say nothing of other things, to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.
16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ the same as despair, fear, and assurance of salvation.
17. It seems as though for the souls in purgatory fear should necessarily decrease and love increase.
18. Furthermore, it does not seem proved, either by reason or by Scripture, that souls in purgatory are outside the state of merit, that is, unable to grow in love.
19. Nor does it seem proved that souls in purgatory, at least not all of them, are certain and assured of their own salvation, even if we ourselves may be entirely certain of it.
20. Therefore the pope, when he uses the words ``plenary remission of all penalties,'' does not actually mean ``all penalties,'' but only those imposed by himself.
21. Thus those indulgence preachers are in error who say that a man is absolved from every penalty and saved by papal indulgences.
22. As a matter of fact, the pope remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to canon law, they should have paid in this life.
23. If remission of all penalties whatsoever could be granted to anyone at all, certainly it would be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to very few.
24. For this reason most people are necessarily deceived by that indiscriminate and high-sounding promise of release from penalty.
25. That power which the pope has in general over purgatory corresponds to the power which any bishop or curate has in a particular way in his own diocese and parish.
26. The pope does very well when he grants remission to souls in purgatory, not by the power of the keys, which he does not have, but by way of intercession for them.
27. They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.
28. It is certain that when money clinks in the money chest, greed and avarice can be increased; but when the church intercedes, the result is in the hands of God alone.
29. Who knows whether all souls in purgatory wish to be redeemed, since we have exceptions in St. Severinus and St. Paschal, as related in a legend.
30. No one is sure of the integrity of his own contrition, much less of having received plenary remission.
31. The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.
32. Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.
33. Men must especially be on guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to him.
34. For the graces of indulgences are concerned only with the penalties of sacramental satisfaction established by man.
35. They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.
36. Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without indulgence letters.
37. Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.
38. Nevertheless, papal remission and blessing are by no means to be disregarded, for they are, as I have said (Thesis 6), the proclamation of the divine remission.
39. It is very difficult, even for the most learned theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the bounty of indulgences and the need of true contrition.
40. A Christian who is truly contrite seeks and loves to pay penalties for his sins; the bounty of indulgences, however, relaxes penalties and causes men to hate them -- at least it furnishes occasion for hating them.
41. Papal indulgences must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think that they are preferable to other good works of love.
42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.
43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.
44. Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of indulgences but is merely freed from penalties.
45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.
46. Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.
47. Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.
48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.
49. Christians are to be taught that papal indulgences are useful only if they do not put their trust in them, but very harmful if they lose their fear of God because of them.
50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep.
51. Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.
52. It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.
53. They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.
54. Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or larger amount of time is devoted to indulgences than to the Word.
55. It is certainly the pope's sentiment that if indulgences, which are a very insignificant thing, are celebrated with one bell, one procession, and one ceremony, then the gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.
56. The true treasures of the church, out of which the pope distributes indulgences, are not sufficiently discussed or known among the people of Christ.
57. That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.
58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, for, even without the pope, the latter always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outer man.
59. St. Lawrence said that the poor of the church were the treasures of the church, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.
60. Without want of consideration we say that the keys of the church, given by the merits of Christ, are that treasure.
61. For it is clear that the pope's power is of itself sufficient for the remission of penalties and cases reserved by himself.
62. The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.
63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last (Mt. 20:16).
64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.
65. Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for men of wealth.
66. The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.
67. The indulgences which the demagogues acclaim as the greatest graces are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote gain.
68. They are nevertheless in truth the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross.
69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.
70. But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears lest these men preach their own dreams instead of what the pope has commissioned.
71. Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.
72. But let him who guards against the lust and license of the indulgence preachers be blessed.
73. Just as the pope justly thunders against those who by any means whatever contrive harm to the sale of indulgences.
74. Much more does he intend to thunder against those who use indulgences as a pretext to contrive harm to holy love and truth.
75. To consider papal indulgences so great that they could absolve a man even if he had done the impossible and had violated the mother of God is madness.
76. We say on the contrary that papal indulgences cannot remove the very least of venial sins as far as guilt is concerned.
77. To say that even St. Peter if he were now pope, could not grant greater graces is blasphemy against St. Peter and the pope.
78. We say on the contrary that even the present pope, or any pope whatsoever, has greater graces at his disposal, that is, the gospel, spiritual powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written. (1 Co 12[:28])
79. To say that the cross emblazoned with the papal coat of arms, and set up by the indulgence preachers is equal in worth to the cross of Christ is blasphemy.
80. The bishops, curates, and theologians who permit such talk to be spread among the people will have to answer for this.
81. This unbridled preaching of indulgences makes it difficult even for learned men to rescue the reverence which is due the pope from slander or from the shrewd questions of the laity.
82. Such as: ``Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church?'' The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.
83. Again, ``Why are funeral and anniversary masses for the dead continued and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded for them, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?''
84. Again, ``What is this new piety of God and the pope that for a consideration of money they permit a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God and do not rather, beca use of the need of that pious and beloved soul, free it for pure love's sake?''
85. Again, ``Why are the penitential canons, long since abrogated and dead in actual fact and through disuse, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences as though they were still alive and in force?''
86. Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''
87. Again, ``What does the pope remit or grant to those who by perfect contrition already have a right to full remission and blessings?''
88. Again, ``What greater blessing could come to the church than if the pope were to bestow these remissions and blessings on every believer a hundred times a day, as he now does but once?''
89. ``Since the pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?''
90. To repress these very sharp arguments of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies and to make Christians unhappy.
91. If, therefore, indulgences were preached according to the spirit and intention of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved. Indeed, they would not exist.
92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Peace, peace,'' and there is no peace! (Jer 6:14)
93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Cross, cross,'' and there is no cross!
94. Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, death and hell.
95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven through many tribulations rather than through the false security of peace (Acts 14:22).

And this all you will tell Jesus when he will come back? Other question: Do you have a pocket lamb or any other form of transbortable lamb including charged batteries? Or is what I say here in your form to think a blasbhemy because my letter "b" is defect?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Constantine highjacked Paul's cult for his own political gain. ...

On what reason? Why Christians?