Zone1 The Atlantic: “The War on Christmas is winning”

[rightwinger]

Why are Christians so defensive about the Holiday Season?
Its the CHRISTMAS SEASON Damn You!
It is not only Dec 25 but the whole month of December

Santa? Bah Humbug!
Hanukkah? Bah Humbug!
Festivus? Bah Humbug
Kwanzaa? Don’t even go there

 

[MisterBeale]

Santa is winning the War on Christmas

No contest

You sure?

I had several of my lefty friends this year, actually rooting for the Grinch. . . .

 

[rightwinger]

I had several of my lefty friends this year, actually rooting for the Grinch. . . .

The Grinch is Make Believe

 

[bodecea]

Simply not true....

Better yet, the whole video"

Jesus steals the winter solstice #shorts #christmas

www.youtube.com

 

[Clyde 154]

Seems like it is Christians pushing their beliefs and demanding sole possession of the Holidays

Santa?
Bah Humbug!

What part of "CHRIST" "MASS" do you fail to comprehend? Jewmass, Musmass, Secularmass......its Christmas. Question? How can anyone PUSH anything upon you when you are don't have to worship anything, observe any tradition, or belief anything. Freewill and the 1st amendment does not exist as a swinging door? What........your communication device, tv, computer, phone, etc., does not have an exist function? If you don't want to believe something........DON'T, but don't attempt to force your traditional non-compliance attitude upon those who have both freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

What's stopping you from going OFF GRID? Can't make it without those you attack helping fill your personal coffers?

 

[Hellokitty]

Simply not true....

 

[rightwinger]

What part of "CHRIST" "MASS" do you fail to comprehend? Jewmass, Musmass, Secularmass......its Christmas. Question? How can anyone PUSH anything upon you when you are don't have to worship anything, observe any tradition, or belief anything. Freewill and the 1st amendment does not exist as a swinging door? What........your communication device, tv, computer, phone, etc., does not have an exist function? If you don't want to believe something........DON'T, but don't attempt to force your traditional non-compliance attitude upon those who have both freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

What's stopping you from going OFF GRID? Can't make it without those you attack helping fill your personal coffers?

Christmas is Santa’s Birthday

You got a problem with that?

 

[WinterBorn]

Same story every year, they won't get rid of it.

No one is trying to get rid of it.

 

[WinterBorn]

What part of "CHRIST" "MASS" do you fail to comprehend? Jewmass, Musmass, Secularmass......its Christmas. Question? How can anyone PUSH anything upon you when you are don't have to worship anything, observe any tradition, or belief anything. Freewill and the 1st amendment does not exist as a swinging door? What........your communication device, tv, computer, phone, etc., does not have an exist function? If you don't want to believe something........DON'T, but don't attempt to force your traditional non-compliance attitude upon those who have both freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

What's stopping you from going OFF GRID? Can't make it without those you attack helping fill your personal coffers?

And the biggest part of Xmas is the commercialism. The economy thrives on people spending themselves into debt for the "perfect" Xmas.

Santa Claus, toy lists, dos and don't of gift giving, trying to bury the Xmas Tree under a crapload of gifts. It is the commercialization that is destroying the Christian message.

And the Christians are prime participants in that.

 

[Lisa558]

I don’t think it’s about being against Christmas. I think it’s about not making the season SOLELY about Christmas when others do not celebrate it and may, in fact, not believe it in at all. I think it’s merely about widening the tent, so to speak, to acknowledge that it is a holiday season, not ONLY a Christmas season.

For example, in my office, the HR director changed the name of our previously called “Christmas Party” to “Holiday Party.” One very far-right Christian became enraged, and said that it is a CHRISTMAS party, to which Jews are welcome, but that it is NOT a Holiday Party.

She said that if another email wasn’t sent out, correcting this and naming it Christmas Party, she would not go. And she didn’t.

Now I ask you, are any Christians reading this insistent that a party for office workers, or various religious, MUST be called a Christmas Party? And calling it a Holiday Party is some sort of “war” on it, rather than simply being more cognizant of the fact that many people are not Christian?

 

[rightwinger]

I don’t think it’s about being against Christmas. I think it’s about not making the season SOLELY about Christmas when others do not celebrate it and may, in fact, not believe it in at all. I think it’s merely about widening the tent, so to speak, to acknowledge that it is a holiday season, not ONLY a Christmas season.

For example, in my office, the HR director changed the name of our previously called “Christmas Party” to “Holiday Party.” One very far-right Christian became enraged, and said that it is a CHRISTMAS party, to which Jews are welcome, but that it is NOT a Holiday Party.

She said that if another email wasn’t sent out, correcting this and naming it Christmas Party, she would not go. And she didn’t.

Now I ask you, are any Christians reading this insistent that a party for office workers, or various religious, MUST be called a Christmas Party? And calling it a Holiday Party is some sort of “war” on it, rather than simply being more cognizant of the fact that many people are not Christian?

For some reason, Christians have a hard time sharing the Holiday Season

 

[Meriweather]

For some reason, Christians have a hard time sharing the Holiday Season

It might be that Christians have a hard time downplaying the Christmas season.

 

[Lisa558]

It might be that Christians have a hard time downplaying the Christmas season.

With all due respect, I don’t think it downplays it. You still have church functions, I assume, and I suspect your personal friends and relatives have Christmas events. But in the example I gave, this was a non-sectarian company, with workers who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and of course Christian. Shouldn’t the name of the party simply be “Holiday Party” so as to make those of other religions feel that they are not secondary participants, albeit “allowed” to attend, a party that celebrates the birth of Jesus, but rather equal participants?

But what really got me in the above example was when the Christian woman insisted HR go back and rename it a Christmas Party, while she ”magnanimously” said that Jews could still come.

 

[Meriweather]

With all due respect, I don’t think it downplays it. You still have church functions, I assume, and I suspect your personal friends and relatives have Christmas events.

The point is that everyone has feelings. Christians are saying to non-Christians, "Of course you are welcome. You have your own religious functions, and your own events with your personal friends and relatives..." And non-Christians are saying the same thing back to Christians.

While December is a great example, I was thinking more along the lines of what we see generally happening in society when holidays aren't even the issue. A minority say, "My feelings are hurt" and today it is the majority who are expected to back-off. It does not matter that the feelings of the majority are now the feelings that are hurting because what is important and momentous to them is being downplayed by the minority. The majority are dismissed with a "You shouldn't feel that way" when no one dares offers that "advice" to the minority view.

Ironically, what each side is saying to the other is exactly the same: "You shouldn't feel that way."

As to your specific example, the Christian should have accepted that whoever planned the party chose to say "Holiday Party" (unless of course that was mandated, but let's say it was not). She should have gone to the holiday party, had a good time, and then volunteered to head the party next year when she could choose what to call the event.

Or, better yet, perhaps the issue could be resolved by just saying "Party."

 

[Lisa558]

The point is that everyone has feelings. Christians are saying to non-Christians, "Of course you are welcome. You have your own religious functions, and your own events with your personal friends and relatives..." And non-Christians are saying the same thing back to Christians.

While December is a great example, I was thinking more along the lines of what we see generally happening in society when holidays aren't even the issue. A minority say, "My feelings are hurt" and today it is the majority who are expected to back-off. It does not matter that the feelings of the majority are now the feelings that are hurting because what is important and momentous to them is being downplayed by the minority. The majority are dismissed with a "You shouldn't feel that way" when no one dares offers that "advice" to the minority view.

Ironically, what each side is saying to the other is exactly the same: "You shouldn't feel that way."

As to your specific example, the Christian should have accepted that whoever planned the party chose to say "Holiday Party" (unless of course that was mandated, but let's say it was not). She should have gone to the holiday party, had a good time, and then volunteered to head the party next year when she could choose what to call the event.

Or, better yet, perhaps the issue could be resolved by just saying "Party."

As far as the specific example, in which you suggest that the Christian who demanded the corporation call it a Christmas Party volunteer next year, and then SHE can call it what she wants (which of course would be Christmas Party), that still is allowing one individual to take the $20,000 of corporate funds and name an office event as one celebrating a Christian holiday.

That would be no more acceptable than if a Muslim volunteered to head the year-end office party and elected to call it ”Allah Worship Party” or if I, a Jew, wanted to call it a Hanukkah party.

I will give you another example. I was at a professional conference lunch comprised of people in my field, and the benediction was given that we thank Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior for the blessing he has bestowed on us. That too was very inappropriate, given that the conference had nothing to do with religion and nobody should have sanctified one religion over the other.

Now, if it were the Christian Biologists Club, I would expect a Christian prayer like that. If it were The Organization of Hasidic Biologists, I would expect a motzi over the bread. But the National Organization of Biologists should not be leading participants in a prayer thanking Jesus.

IMO, of course.

 

[Meriweather]

That would be no more acceptable than if a Muslim volunteered to head the year-end office party and elected to call it ”Allah Worship Party” or if I, a Jew, wanted to call it a Hanukkah party.

I have no problem with either. Muslims reference the One God as Allah, and I worship God. I love Hanukkah, and my daughter and I have been lighting candles for several years. I would be happy to attend both.

My point is, why should we have to avoid certain words--or worse yet, sanitize them into something like "holiday". In Britain a 'holiday' is a vacation lasting a week or longer. The one-day off is called a bank holiday. It might be funny to have someone issue an invitation that says, "Come to our bank holiday party" although a holiday party lasting a week might be loads of fun as well.

 

[AsherN]

As far as the specific example, in which you suggest that the Christian who demanded the corporation call it a Christmas Party volunteer next year, and then SHE can call it what she wants (which of course would be Christmas Party), that still is allowing one individual to take the $20,000 of corporate funds and name an office event as one celebrating a Christian holiday.

That would be no more acceptable than if a Muslim volunteered to head the year-end office party and elected to call it ”Allah Worship Party” or if I, a Jew, wanted to call it a Hanukkah party.

I will give you another example. I was at a professional conference lunch comprised of people in my field, and the benediction was given that we thank Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior for the blessing he has bestowed on us. That too was very inappropriate, given that the conference had nothing to do with religion and nobody should have sanctified one religion over the other.

Now, if it were the Christian Biologists Club, I would expect a Christian prayer like that. If it were The Organization of Hasidic Biologists, I would expect a motzi over the bread. But the National Organization of Biologists should not be leading participants in a prayer thanking Jesus.

IMO, of course.

And sometimes it's just not thinking. I was at an industry conference. There were no vegetarian options for any meals. All meals were meat based and pork was the only meat. It was a varied crowd with a not insignificant number of Jews, Muslims and Hindus in attendance. I complained to the organizers, and the next year was a lot more varied.

 

[Meriweather]

I will give you another example. I was at a professional conference lunch comprised of people in my field, and the benediction was given that we thank Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior for the blessing he has bestowed on us. That too was very inappropriate, given that the conference had nothing to do with religion and nobody should have sanctified one religion over the other.

Again, I find no issue with this--speaking as someone who attended a meeting where the invocation was given by a man from India. We are a nation that practices the religion of our choice and if I direct my own prayer to God Almighty as the gentleman from India mentions the name of a Hindu God, I very much doubt either God nor the Hindu would take offense. I have that much confidence God knows my heart.

 

[Lisa558]

I have no problem with either. Muslims reference the One God as Allah, and I worship God. I love Hanukkah, and my daughter and I have been lighting candles for several years. I would be happy to attend both.

My point is, why should we have to avoid certain words--or worse yet, sanitize them into something like "holiday". In Britain a 'holiday' is a vacation lasting a week or longer. The one-day off is called a bank holiday. It might be funny to have someone issue an invitation that says, "Come to our bank holiday party" although a holiday party lasting a week might be loads of fun as well.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. In a corporate setting, with workers of many different religions, it would be wrong, IMO, to have an office party calling out, by name, one specific religion.

That is very different from private functions. I have always lived among Christians (since most people are), and have often been invited to their Christmas Parties - and go happily. I have always reciprocated by inviting them to my annual Hanukkah brunch.

This is the one area where I tend to agree with Democrats. I am aware of that. Of course, it’s not that large an issue to overcome all the negatives about Democrat attitudes and policies, so I stick with the Republicans.

 

[Lisa558]

Again, I find no issue with this--speaking as someone who attended a meeting where the invocation was given by a man from India. We are a nation that practices the religion of our choice and if I direct my own prayer to God Almighty as the gentleman from India mentions the name of a Hindu God, I very much doubt either God nor the Hindu would take offense. I have that much confidence God knows my heart.

What if the person giving the benediction at a professional conference ask all present, including Jews, to bow our head and thank Jesus Christ our Savior? Because that is what happened. He was asking Jews to do something in violation of their religious beliefs.

It puts Jews in an awkward position. In fact, I once wrote a letter to an organization saying that asking all present, including Jews, to bow to Jesus makes Jews feel awkward. The answer came back that if Jews feel uncomfortable being asked to bow to Jesus that they can leave the room and come back when the prayer is over.

Great way to make Jews feel like “the other.” Either bow to Jesus, or leave the room.