The account of Adam and Eve is allegorical

[ding]

L

What is the significance of Adam and Eve hiding when they heard God approaching?

The story represents a shift into the ego-centered mind. Animals have a sense of body awareness and to some extent self-awareness. Other mammals seem to experience twinges of pride or embarrasment. But human self-awareness is on a whole nuther level.

Hold on, I gotta take a selfie...

Okay I'm back. The human mind is divided btwn conscious and subconscious, represented by male and female in this story. The experience of our lives is processed in dreams. In a sense, the conscious impregnates the subconscious. This process leads to re-births of understanding.

In the story the serpent intercedes and plants a concept or mode of thought into the human psyche: knowledge. Humans were given a double-edged sword. This makes me think of the Greek story of Prometheus who gave humans the secret of fire. Zeus was pissed.

That selfie thing cracked me up. You are ok.

So... you don't believe that we are born with an innate ability to know right from wrong?

Right and wrong are subjective. We are born with an innate ability to survive.

I would have been shocked if you had had any other opinion.

Their religion is socialism which worships big government and social policy. It is based on atheism and deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. They have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Their doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Their hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. They can be identified by an external locus of control. They worship science but are the first to argue against it. They are modern American liberals.

What proof do you have that we are born with a sense of right and wrong?

See post #16, lol.

 

[HaShev]

Same reason Moshiach is deemed a lepper.
Man and the church can talk about a HaShev (return) but will guarantee hide from any HaShev.

That doesn't make any sense at all. What was the reason they hid? Did they used to hide from Him? What had they done immediately before they hid from Him?

IN Isaiah he asks how many can stand and take the (refiners) fire=judgement (being assessed/exposed=hurt ego)
During the holiday of Rosh Hashanah and around that time I like to teach a lesson about the holiday that will help your question.

Sometimes in life, there are situations that we would prefer not to deal with.
Maybe it's a problem that we just can't come to terms with, or a habit which we can't seem to kick.
It's tough to admit that we're less than perfect, that we need help.
An ostrich buries its head in the sand
*and hides*, the dog that knows he did wrong in relieving himself
on your carpet whimpers behind the easy chair trying to *hide from his master* in shame.

Why is it so difficult for us to admit what we do? Ego, fear, feelings of inadequacy?
What drives us to hide and pretend it doesn't exist or worse displace blame?

During that holiday celebrating the New Year we reflect on how to make our lives more 'whole' and 'complete' ('Shalem').
We must use this reflection to remove that barrier and protective covering(fig leaf) that we build around ourselves when we hide from
our issues and therefore from addressing them and improving ourselves and our society around us.
During Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, we involve ourselves in an introspective process to free ourselves of that avoidance nature
and this self judgment and atonement process is called, in Hebrew, 'Teshuva'.
A reflection returning us to reality. Taking our heads out of the sand, dropping our frail human ego,
and taking us from our hiding from behind the couch to face our master.

 

[ding]

Same reason Moshiach is deemed a lepper.
Man and the church can talk about a HaShev (return) but will guarantee hide from any HaShev.

That doesn't make any sense at all. What was the reason they hid? Did they used to hide from Him? What had they done immediately before they hid from Him?

IN Isaiah he asks how many can stand and take the (refiners) fire=judgement (being assessed/exposed=hurt ego)
During the holiday of Rosh Hashanah and around that time I like to teach a lesson about the holiday that will help your question.

Sometimes in life, there are situations that we would prefer not to deal with.
Maybe it's a problem that we just can't come to terms with, or a habit which we can't seem to kick.
It's tough to admit that we're less than perfect, that we need help.
An ostrich buries its head in the sand
*and hides*, the dog that knows he did wrong in relieving himself
on your carpet whimpers behind the easy chair trying to *hide from his master* in shame.

Why is it so difficult for us to admit what we do? Ego, fear, feelings of inadequacy?
What drives us to hide and pretend it doesn't exist or worse displace blame?

During that holiday celebrating the New Year we reflect on how to make our lives more 'whole' and 'complete' ('Shalem').
We must use this reflection to remove that barrier and protective covering(fig leaf) that we build around ourselves when we hide from
our issues and therefore from addressing them and improving ourselves and our society around us.
During Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, we involve ourselves in an introspective process to free ourselves of that avoidance nature
and this self judgment and atonement process is called, in Hebrew, 'Teshuva'.
A reflection returning us to reality. Taking our heads out of the sand, dropping our frail human ego,
and taking us from our hiding from behind the couch to face our master.

So you believe they didn't hide from Him because they knew they had done wrong?

 

[HaShev]

So you believe they didn't hide from Him because they knew they had done wrong?

READ Genesis 3:10 in the Tanakh, it's very clear, they hid because they were exposed (of their deceptions).
Remember: Ezekiel 28 is also discussing the fall of the false prophet and that deception is explained as:
creating his image, one that walked the garden of eden, one of perfection, claiming him the messiah guardian, until you see the iniquities in
this *image deception.*
Who created that image? The Church(Eve) who CONvinced man (Adam) to partake of that created image.

 

[ding]

So you believe they didn't hide from Him because they knew they had done wrong?

READ Genesis 3:10 in the Tanakh, it's very clear, they hid because they were exposed (of their deceptions).
Remember: Ezekiel 28 is also discussing the fall of the false prophet and that deception is explained as:
creating his image, one that walked the garden of eden, one of perfection, claiming him the messiah guardian, until ypu see the iniquities in
this *image deception.*

It really is a simple question. So you believe they didn't hide from Him because they knew they had done wrong?

 

[HaShev]

You are breaking the forum rules by bumping your own posts. But worse you are breaking the commands to do it.
Will you admit you did wrong, or hide from it.
Enough said.

 

[ding]

You are breaking the forum rules by bumping your own posts. But worse you are breaking the commands to do it.
Will you admit you did wrong, or hide from it.
Enough said.

So you do believe they hid from Him because they knew they had done wrong? That is the simple and correct answer. Good job, creepy life lessons video guy.

That was wrong of me. The other thingee? Not so much. See the difference?

 

[HaShev]

I don't blame you for bumping the post, it's a good one and obviously I'm enabling the bump ups, but it was the best way to show how we do things in our own interests against rules-guidlines. Good lesson revealed in this recent election, how the left was willing to break the rules and laws simply for it's own interest. And what happened when their fig leaves (cover up destroying email evidence)was removed?
They were exposed by the naked truth.
They tried to hide their real selves by puting a CREATED IMAGE of themselves until the iniquities was found in that image.

 

[ding]

I don't blame you for bumping the post, it's a good one and obviously I'm enabling the bump ups, but it was the best way to show how we do things in our own interests against rules-guidlines. Good lesson revealed in this recent election, how the left was willing to break the rules and laws simply for it's own interest. And what happened when their fig leaves (cover up destroying email evidence)was removed?
They were exposed by the naked truth.
They tried to hide their real selves by puting a CREATED IMAGE of themselves until the iniquities was found in that image.

They hid for the same reason other people hide when they know they have done something wrong... they knew they had done something wrong.

 

[HaShev]

So the Million dollar question:
why can't they admit what they are doing is wrong?
When Michael Murdoch, Popoff, and the rest of the TBN prosperity preacher scams ask for seed money, why must they hide it behind a mask called Jesus? Why not admit they are doing the age old Priests of Bel harvest scam? Why not admit they are luring people towards Baal worship? Why hide behind satanism? Answer to the million dollar question=the millions dollars as it's all about the money. Whether the crooked politician, the priests of Bel, or the business practices you see today that bait and switch or lie & deceive customers, it's all about poor teachings about being saved by and through affiliation instead of by works/ deeds and morals, ethics, & standards thus money taints the moral compass and affiliation pride protects it.

 

[ding]

So the Million dollar question:
why can't they admit what they are doing is wrong?
When Michael Murdoch, Popoff, and the rest of the TBN prosperity preacher scams ask for seed money, why must they hide it behind a mask called Jesus? Why not admit they are doing the age old Priests of Bel harvest scam? Why not admit they are luring people towards Baal worship? Why hide behind satanism? Answer to the million dollar question=the millions dollars as it's all about the money. Whether the crooked politician, the priests of Bel, or the business practices you see today that bait and switch or lie & deceive customers, it's all about poor teachings about being saved by and through affiliation instead of by works/ deeds and morals, ethics, & standards thus money taints the moral compass and affiliation pride protects it.

Because it is their nature. Did Adam admit to eating the apple? No. He said Eve gave it to him. Copout. Did Eve admit she ate the apple? No. She said the serpent deceived her. Copout.

These were the first recorded cases external locus of control in the history of mankind.

The real question you should be asking is why does man not abandon the concept of right and wrong when he violates it.

 

[HaShev]

Right and wrong is subjective when humanity does not define the most finite source of creation. Only then, one can know what is TRULY IN LINE -RIGHT PATH and what is OPPOSITE THAT PATH, becoming clear to what is good or bad and therefore no longer subjective.
That is why atheism fails. It understands the natural order of creation is the power and source, but never Defines that Essence in order that we reflect emulate and manifest it or in this discussion, understand good from evil and our purpose and place in this creation.
Judaism is all about defining creation, focus, reflection and manifestation of that
Essence and transforming and progressing creation to fit that path and purpose in life to Shalem (become stable, completed, and whole=evolve to all we could & should be).

 

[ding]

Right and wrong is subjective when humanity does not define the most finite source of creation.

Yes and no. How does defining the most finite source of Creation help man not be subjective when it comes to right and wrong. I know tons of people who believe in God and they are still subjective when it comes to right and wrong. Some of them are even Jews. In fact, I suspect it would be the same statistical representation as the rest of so-called believers. How do you explain this?

In fact, didn't Adam and Eve know God?

 

[HaShev]

I told you the answer, you did not see it because Adam(man) and Eve(the church) had listened to the serpent(false prophet) and not God(the Essence Shalem).

I said many times everything you need is in the HaShem (the name) of the Holy City-Yeru"Shalem".
It's essential to define that power & source of Life (God) in order to know our purpose, place, path, and thus know if we are in line (doing good) or going against the grain (doing evil).
The Torah tells us God's Essence is in the city's name, Shalem means completeness -wholeness, Stability, which is why Genesis says God creates order out of chaos, not out of nothing.
Knowing/describing that essence in life helps discern from subjective opinions on what is in line or against the grain (right or wrong, good or bad).
So ask yourself is that Shalem(stable,becoming complete) or opposition to Shalem(chaotic & divisive) to know good from evil without it being mere subjective opinion.
Like I said many times, the holy name is like cliff notes which is why the city is our focus and Iris of the Eye of God.

Sources:
YeruShalem would carry the name. (1 Kings 11:36 &
in dead sea scrolls: Words of the Archangel Michael scroll 4Q529, 6Q23)
The Gemarah (Baba Batra 75) Tells us Jerusalem is named after G0D and is the place commemorating his name and essence. In Sefer D’varim (12:5, 11, 14, 18, 21; 14:23,24, 25; 15:20; 16:2, 6, 7, 11, 15, 16; 17:8, 10; 18:6; 26:2; 31:11).the place that I will choose to place My Name. That is referring to YeruShalem because Sifri identifies the place which Hashem will choose (12:18) as “Yerushalayim”.

Type: "David named 2 sons after Shalem"
in google search.

 

[ding]

I told you the answer, you did not see it because Adam(man) and Eve(the church) had listened to the serpent(false prophet) and not God(the Essence Shalem).

I said many times everything you need is in the HaShem (the name) of the Holy City-Yeru"Shalem".
It's essential to define that power & source of Life (God) in order to know our purpose, place, path, and thus know if we are in line (doing good) or going against the grain (doing evil).
The Torah tells us God's Essence is in the city's name, Shalem means completeness -wholeness, Stability, which is why Genesis says God creates order out of chaos, not out of nothing.
Knowing/describing that essence in life helps discern from subjective opinions on what is in line or against the grain (right or wrong, good or bad).
So ask yourself is that Shalem(stable,becoming complete) or opposition to Shalem(chaotic & divisive) to know good from evil without it being mere subjective opinion.
Like I said many times, the holy name is like cliff notes which is why the city is our focus and Iris of the Eye of God.

Sources:
YeruShalem would carry the name. (1 Kings 11:36 &
in dead sea scrolls: Words of the Archangel Michael scroll 4Q529, 6Q23)
The Gemarah (Baba Batra 75) Tells us Jerusalem is named after G0D and is the place commemorating his name and essence. In Sefer D’varim (12:5, 11, 14, 18, 21; 14:23,24, 25; 15:20; 16:2, 6, 7, 11, 15, 16; 17:8, 10; 18:6; 26:2; 31:11).the place that I will choose to place My Name. That is referring to YeruShalem because Sifri identifies the place which Hashem will choose (12:18) as “Yerushalayim”.

Type: "David named 2 sons after Shalem"
in google search.

Yeah, no. I can't accept an explanation that is based on blame and lack of accountability. That's not God's way. I believe that it is much more likely that man knows right from wrong and when he violates it instead of abandoning the concept of good and evil, he just rationalizes that he didn't violate it. I see it everyday.

 

[HaShev]

You should have concluded that they don't know right from wrong, because they don't know God.
ISAIAH 66:19 Regarding the time to the procession to the Temple.
The GENTILE has not yet seen the Face (revealed Essence) of God.
because they don't know God, which is why it says they will take a hold of our garb and ask us about our God. Which if you haven't noticed, they've been doing for the last 20 some years, council with Rabbis instead of Priests.
Even Catholic iconographs show they don't have the proper scale and weight of good or evil due to the false fallen prophet holding down the scales distorting the weight of our deeds and perceptions like how some teach faith instead of works, affiliation instead of heart & actions, idol worship over Deeds and being, removal of sins or auto cleanse through an idol instead of Teshuva.
In that iconograph the one holding the scale is the head of hosts(head Kohanim) as Judge mediating what is just and fair and steping on the fallen (serpents) head as in Genesis.

Sources:
Who best knows the scripture of truth?
-Dan 10:21

Michael is the one who brings men's souls to judgment ("signifer S. Michael repraesentet eas in lucam sanctam", Offert. Miss Defunct. "Constituit eum principem super animas suscipiendas", Antiph. off. Cf. "Hermas", Pastor, I, 3, Simil. VIII, 3).

Dan 12:1-4 Michael delivers everyone written in the book of life (judge)

IIQ13 "Heavenly Prince Melchizedek Scroll" about Michael conducting the atonement day Judgment.

Account of the Genesis which Enotes composed, to set against the Genesis of Moses, when it says [2] that the Devil (diabolos) was cast out of heaven(future Perfected earth) because of the evil (kakia) which he had brought forth and that Michael was set (kathistanai) in his place, that he might be associated with (synistanai)
the just Judge(krites), and might be the ambassador (presbeuein) for all creation; for he is good (agathos).
(meaning the Devil was the rule of this world and Michael was sent in his Place to cast out the evil he caused.)

If the devil and his works is judged then judgement is by works which is what the iconographs show where Michael
holds the judgment scales and Satan is holding down the scale trying to prevent measurment of works (through faith only teachings).

1 Enoch 20:5
Michael, one of the holy angels, who, presiding over human virtue, commands the nations. (mediator/Judge)

EXODUS 23:20 "Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for
**He will not pardon your transgressions**; for My name is in Him.

1 Enoch 53:6
Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel (Jeremiel)(14) shall be strengthened in that day, and shall then cast them into a furnace of blazing fire, that the Lord of spirits may be avenged of them for their crimes; because they became ministers of Satan, and seduced those who dwell upon earth.

Blessings scroll (1QSb=1Q28b)
V:20 "blessings of the Prince of the Congregation (Michael)
Renew him the covenant of the community so he might establish the kingdom of his people for ever, that he might judge the poor with righteousness & dispense Justice with equity to the oppressed.

4Q285 5&10 Judgment of the Kittim (Romans)

Dead Sea Scrolls:
llQMelch ll,9,13 ,
4Q246 ,
1QS x12-18

 

[ding]

You should have concluded that they don't know right from wrong, because they don't know God.
ISAIAH 66:19 Regarding the time to the procession to the Temple.
The GENTILE has not yet seen the Face (revealed Essence) of God.
because they don't know God, which is why it says they will take a hold of our garb and ask us about our God. Which if you haven't noticed, they've been doing for the last 20 some years, council with Rabbis instead of Priests.
Even Catholic iconographs show they don't have the proper scale and weight of good or evil due to the false fallen prophet holding down the scales distorting the weight of our deeds and perceptions like how some teach faith instead of works, affiliation instead of heart & actions, idol worship over Deeds and being, removal of sins or auto cleanse through an idol instead of Teshuva.
In that iconograph the one holding the scale is the head of hosts(head Kohanim) as Judge mediating what is just and fair and steping on the fallen (serpents) head as in Genesis.

Sources:
Who best knows the scripture of truth?
-Dan 10:21

Michael is the one who brings men's souls to judgment ("signifer S. Michael repraesentet eas in lucam sanctam", Offert. Miss Defunct. "Constituit eum principem super animas suscipiendas", Antiph. off. Cf. "Hermas", Pastor, I, 3, Simil. VIII, 3).

Dan 12:1-4 Michael delivers everyone written in the book of life (judge)

IIQ13 "Heavenly Prince Melchizedek Scroll" about Michael conducting the atonement day Judgment.

Account of the Genesis which Enotes composed, to set against the Genesis of Moses, when it says [2] that the Devil (diabolos) was cast out of heaven(future Perfected earth) because of the evil (kakia) which he had brought forth and that Michael was set (kathistanai) in his place, that he might be associated with (synistanai)
the just Judge(krites), and might be the ambassador (presbeuein) for all creation; for he is good (agathos).
(meaning the Devil was the rule of this world and Michael was sent in his Place to cast out the evil he caused.)

If the devil and his works is judged then judgement is by works which is what the iconographs show where Michael
holds the judgment scales and Satan is holding down the scale trying to prevent measurment of works (through faith only teachings).

1 Enoch 20:5
Michael, one of the holy angels, who, presiding over human virtue, commands the nations. (mediator/Judge)

EXODUS 23:20 "Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for
**He will not pardon your transgressions**; for My name is in Him.

1 Enoch 53:6
Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel (Jeremiel)(14) shall be strengthened in that day, and shall then cast them into a furnace of blazing fire, that the Lord of spirits may be avenged of them for their crimes; because they became ministers of Satan, and seduced those who dwell upon earth.

Blessings scroll (1QSb=1Q28b)
V:20 "blessings of the Prince of the Congregation (Michael)
Renew him the covenant of the community so he might establish the kingdom of his people for ever, that he might judge the poor with righteousness & dispense Justice with equity to the oppressed.

4Q285 5&10 Judgment of the Kittim (Romans)

Dead Sea Scrolls:
llQMelch ll,9,13 ,
4Q246 ,
1QS x12-18

Do you know God? Do you never sin?

 

[there4eyeM]

...and the allegory is about duality.

 

[Mudda]

Do you know God? Do you never sin?

Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins, so that bill is paid, we can sin all we want, otherwise, Jesus died for nothing.

 

[HaShev]

Do you know God? Do you never sin?

Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins, so that bill is paid, we can sin all we want, otherwise, Jesus died for nothing.

Hence Jesus=LUCIFER in that iconograph of the Judgement scales=the serpent(false prophet)