The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[Rustic]

How does one measure 'development'?

Is this developed?

Or this?

Development is measured by economist at the United Nations using the Human Development Index. The Human Development Index is based on 3 criteria:
01. GDP per capita
02. Life Expectancy
03. Education levels

No matter who is doing the measuring (IMF, World Bank, UN) the US is in the top 10 for GDP per capita. Interestingly enough, Macau (a city state former colony of Portugal whose revenue relies mostly on gamblers from Hong Kong and other parts of Asia) is in the top five.

A Google search shows Hong Kong in the number one slot for life expectancy world wide -- a country with no public health care. The UK, with its much vaunted National Health System falls to 29th place.

The UN system measures education levels by years of schooling by the average of Mean Years of Schooling and Expected Years of Schooling ... and completely ignores tertiary education in the equation. Even so, according the UN rating, the US is in the top 10 on the Education index.

So, for America in the top 10 for two of the factors, not to make the top 50 means there are other factors (subjective factors that the bureaucrats at the UN find attractive) coming into this equation. What is the UN's agenda in publishing this data, other than to make other countries feel better about themselves?


The larger question is, if America is at the bottom of various lists a desirable model for people to live and work, why is it on the top of every list for countries into which people are trying to get in to?

But the United States is in the top 50 of the most developed nations in the World. In fact its at #13 in the world. Yes, high per capita GDP, 13th in the world in fact. Strong on education. Much weaker when it comes to life expectancy since it ranks at #34.

The point of this thread is that despite the United States high wealth and high rankings, It is one of only FIVE top 50 developed countries to not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens. That is a major failure for a country that is so wealthy and developed.

What about the millions of Americans that want nothing to do with socialized medicine?

 

[Anathema]

If Medicare were unconstitutional, we would not have it. We do though. Other people, especially those in the three branches of government have different interpretations of the constitution than you do.

If you believe thst any of the three branches of the US Government have the faintest interest in following the US Constitution, you’re a fool of the highest order.

Being a politician or political appointee doesn’t give you any special insight into the Constitution. In fact I find it makes them more likely to ignore it.

The vast majority of the US Government is unconstitutional and illegitimate as well as immoral in this day and age.

Lastly, a Federal Healthcare plan means my death, as I cannot in good conscience take such improper monies or benefits from the Government.

 

[Norman]

Below are the 50 most developed countries in the world ranked according to the UN Human Development index which measures development and standard of living through estimates of GDP per capita, life expectancy, and education. There are a total of 197 countries in the world today. 193 of those countries are part of the United Nations. 45 out of the 50 most developed countries in the world below provide UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for its citizens, essentially medicare for all. The following are the five countries from the list below that do not:

01. Cyprus
02. United Arab Emirates
03. Qatar
04. Bahrain
05. United States

Cyprus is currently In the process of moving to a Universal Healthcare system which will be completed in a few years. That will leave the United States alone with three Arab countries as being the only countries, of the 50 most developed in the world, that do not have Universal HealthCare.

Why does the United States, the wealthiest country in the world and the 3rd wealthiest per captia country, still not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens? How could anyone say that Universal HealthCare is impossible or too expensive for the United States when nearly all of the 50 most developed countries in the world provide it for its citizens?


50 MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD RANKED:

01 - Norway
02 - Switzerland
03 - Australia
04 - Ireland
05 - Germany
06 - Iceland
07 - San Marino
08 - Sweden
09 - Singapore
10 - Netherlands
11 - Denmark
12 Canada
13 - United States
14 - United Kingdom
15 - Monaco
16 - Vatican City
17 - Finland
18 - New Zealand
19 - Belgium
20 - Liechtenstein
21 - Japan
22 - Austria
23 - Luxembourg
24 - Israel
25 - Taiwan
26 - South Korea
27 - France
28 - Slovenia
29 - Spain
30 - Czech Republic
31 - Italy
32 - Malta
33 - Estonia
34 - Greece
35 - Cyprus
36 - Poland
37 - United Arab Emirates
38 - Andorra
39 - Lithuania
40 - Qatar
41 - Slovakia
42 - Brunei
43 - Saudi Arabia
44 - Latvia
45 - Portugal
46 - Bahrain
47 - Chile
48 - Hungary
49 - Croatia
50 - Argentina

Seems like you have a lot of places to choose from. Why not try Argentina or Greece?

In this country things are done in a smarter way. Your plan is to be on the list right after Argentina - and we know what success that place is.

 

[U2Edge]

Sure, why should a lowerclass person be forced to spend all their savings and go into debt just because they get sick? Is that good for the economy? Nope.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.

In biology, Diversity is the key to health and survival. Given how diverse the United States is, it should have the highest life expectancy in the world.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.
bullshit,you can have the best healthcare there is but if you dont take care of your self what good did it do you?...many Americans have access to great healthcare but dont take great care of themselves....factors for life expectancy has more to do with how you take care of yourself then if you have good healthcare...

Most of the citizens of developed countries have similar lifestyles. Quality of healthcare and access to it is a more important factor when comparing life expectancy among developed countries.

Finally, even if their healthcare is at best equal to ours in quality, at least they provide it to everyone. There is very little evidence to support that Europeans have significantly worse quality healthcare. On average they live longer. Their healthcare quality is either equal too or better than that of the United States. Plus they provide it to all their citizens. They also spend less on healthcare than the United States does.

sure they do thats why i keep seeing things saying we have far more overweight people than other countries....

You'll find that most overweight and obese people tend to be among those in the lower class that have less access to healthcare and less access to low cost quality food. Universal healthcare could solve these problems.

yea sure they are.....you dont get out much do you?....over eating and not exercising is just as prevalent in the middle and upper classes.....

You obviously have not been to many low income areas of the United States. Where you live, your income level all impact whether you have access to healthcare and quality food.

 

[the other mike]

edited

 

[Oddball]

Below are the 50 most developed countries in the world ranked according to the UN Human Development index which measures development and standard of living through estimates of GDP per capita, life expectancy, and education. There are a total of 197 countries in the world today. 193 of those countries are part of the United Nations. 45 out of the 50 most developed countries in the world below provide UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for its citizens, essentially medicare for all. The following are the five countries from the list below that do not:

01. Cyprus
02. United Arab Emirates
03. Qatar
04. Bahrain
05. United States

Cyprus is currently In the process of moving to a Universal Healthcare system which will be completed in a few years. That will leave the United States alone with three Arab countries as being the only countries, of the 50 most developed in the world, that do not have Universal HealthCare.

Why does the United States, the wealthiest country in the world and the 3rd wealthiest per captia country, still not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens? How could anyone say that Universal HealthCare is impossible or too expensive for the United States when nearly all of the 50 most developed countries in the world provide it for its citizens?


50 MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD RANKED:

01 - Norway
02 - Switzerland
03 - Australia
04 - Ireland
05 - Germany
06 - Iceland
07 - San Marino
08 - Sweden
09 - Singapore
10 - Netherlands
11 - Denmark
12 Canada
13 - United States
14 - United Kingdom
15 - Monaco
16 - Vatican City
17 - Finland
18 - New Zealand
19 - Belgium
20 - Liechtenstein
21 - Japan
22 - Austria
23 - Luxembourg
24 - Israel
25 - Taiwan
26 - South Korea
27 - France
28 - Slovenia
29 - Spain
30 - Czech Republic
31 - Italy
32 - Malta
33 - Estonia
34 - Greece
35 - Cyprus
36 - Poland
37 - United Arab Emirates
38 - Andorra
39 - Lithuania
40 - Qatar
41 - Slovakia
42 - Brunei
43 - Saudi Arabia
44 - Latvia
45 - Portugal
46 - Bahrain
47 - Chile
48 - Hungary
49 - Croatia
50 - Argentina

Bandwagon fallacy isn't an argument.

The OP presents no "fallacy". It's called "comparison".

Here the post presents a comparison showing a marked contrast and asks why that contrast exists. You provided no answer.

"Keeping up with the Joneses" is a comparison too...As you look covetously at all they have, which you don't.

The answer provided was exactly what all logical fallacies deserve; being called out and disregarded as a non-argument.

 

[Oddball]

But the United States is in the top 50 of the most developed nations in the World. In fact its at #13 in the world. Yes, high per capita GDP, 13th in the world in fact. Strong on education. Much weaker when it comes to life expectancy since it ranks at #34.

The point of this thread is that despite the United States high wealth and high rankings, It is one of only FIVE top 50 developed countries to not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens. That is a major failure for a country that is so wealthy and developed.

Non-sequitur....There are lots of reasons for lower life expectancy that don't involve a State-run medical care monopoly.

Is there a logical fallacy that you couldn't invoke today?

 

[depotoo]

Over 2000 lbs were caught being brought in through the rgv last week. That is what was caught. Figure what wasn’t.

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

Nobody was upset about $5 billion for border security, we just didn't want to waste on a stupid useless wall.

Wrong




·
Jan 24

Proven effective in San Diego, walls helped stop vehicle drive-throughs, which were a common smuggling technique in the 1990’s. In this 5th video, Chief Scott explains how walls put an end to this dangerous smuggling method.

A static wall can have some utility. But it can stop people who tunnel under the wall, people who climb over, or people who go through legal ports of entry. Most illegal aliens, and most illegal drugs, 90% in fact, come through legal ports of entry.

 

[depotoo]

And he completely ignores the cost are prohibitive and he doesn’t realize the age thing just dropped since Obamacare came into effect, with its take a pill and go home to die philosophy.

But the United States is in the top 50 of the most developed nations in the World. In fact its at #13 in the world. Yes, high per capita GDP, 13th in the world in fact. Strong on education. Much weaker when it comes to life expectancy since it ranks at #34.

The point of this thread is that despite the United States high wealth and high rankings, It is one of only FIVE top 50 developed countries to not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens. That is a major failure for a country that is so wealthy and developed.

Non-sequitur....There are lots of reasons for lower life expectancy that don't involve a State-run medical care monopoly.

Is there a logical fallacy that you couldn't invoke today?

 

[Pogo]

Below are the 50 most developed countries in the world ranked according to the UN Human Development index which measures development and standard of living through estimates of GDP per capita, life expectancy, and education. There are a total of 197 countries in the world today. 193 of those countries are part of the United Nations. 45 out of the 50 most developed countries in the world below provide UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for its citizens, essentially medicare for all. The following are the five countries from the list below that do not:

01. Cyprus
02. United Arab Emirates
03. Qatar
04. Bahrain
05. United States

Cyprus is currently In the process of moving to a Universal Healthcare system which will be completed in a few years. That will leave the United States alone with three Arab countries as being the only countries, of the 50 most developed in the world, that do not have Universal HealthCare.

Why does the United States, the wealthiest country in the world and the 3rd wealthiest per captia country, still not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens? How could anyone say that Universal HealthCare is impossible or too expensive for the United States when nearly all of the 50 most developed countries in the world provide it for its citizens?


50 MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD RANKED:

01 - Norway
02 - Switzerland
03 - Australia
04 - Ireland
05 - Germany
06 - Iceland
07 - San Marino
08 - Sweden
09 - Singapore
10 - Netherlands
11 - Denmark
12 Canada
13 - United States
14 - United Kingdom
15 - Monaco
16 - Vatican City
17 - Finland
18 - New Zealand
19 - Belgium
20 - Liechtenstein
21 - Japan
22 - Austria
23 - Luxembourg
24 - Israel
25 - Taiwan
26 - South Korea
27 - France
28 - Slovenia
29 - Spain
30 - Czech Republic
31 - Italy
32 - Malta
33 - Estonia
34 - Greece
35 - Cyprus
36 - Poland
37 - United Arab Emirates
38 - Andorra
39 - Lithuania
40 - Qatar
41 - Slovakia
42 - Brunei
43 - Saudi Arabia
44 - Latvia
45 - Portugal
46 - Bahrain
47 - Chile
48 - Hungary
49 - Croatia
50 - Argentina

Bandwagon fallacy isn't an argument.

The OP presents no "fallacy". It's called "comparison".

Here the post presents a comparison showing a marked contrast and asks why that contrast exists. You provided no answer.

"Keeping up with the Joneses" is a comparison too...As you look covetously at all they have, which you don't.

The answer provided was exactly what all logical fallacies deserve; being called out and disregarded as a non-argument.

I don't think you have even a scent of an idea what a logical fallacy is.

Let's be honest. You saw a pointed question that you wish you could answer but you can't. That doesn't make it a fallacy. It makes it a damn good question. That's because its answer is elusive. Witness how it's eluding you right now.

 

[Oddball]

And he completely ignores the cost are prohibitive and he doesn’t realize the age thing just dropped since Obamacare came into effect, with its take a pill and go home to die philosophy.

He's also ignoring that none of his arguments are legitimate debating points....He just goes on and on, dispensing the standard boilerplate socialist medicine blabbering points, like a nickelodeon.

 

[jasonnfree]

Something I read recently that is a plus for health care for all like most advanced countries have. That is, that you're not tied to a job you may not like just because that particular job has health benefits. How many people would like to be more independent and work in an occupation they really like, but can't make the change because their present job provides the health care for a guy and his family?

 

[Oddball]

I don't think you have even a scent of an idea what a logical fallacy is.

Let's be honest. You saw a pointed question that you wish you could answer but you can't. That doesn't make it a fallacy. It makes it a damn good question. That's because its answer is elusive. Witness how it's eluding you right now.

I know exactly what a logical fallacy is, and especially what the bandwagon fallacy is....The argument in the OP is a classic example....Deal with it.

 

[fncceo]

How does one measure 'development'?

Is this developed?

Or this?

Development is measured by economist at the United Nations using the Human Development Index. The Human Development Index is based on 3 criteria:
01. GDP per capita
02. Life Expectancy
03. Education levels

No matter who is doing the measuring (IMF, World Bank, UN) the US is in the top 10 for GDP per capita. Interestingly enough, Macau (a city state former colony of Portugal whose revenue relies mostly on gamblers from Hong Kong and other parts of Asia) is in the top five.

A Google search shows Hong Kong in the number one slot for life expectancy world wide -- a country with no public health care. The UK, with its much vaunted National Health System falls to 29th place.

The UN system measures education levels by years of schooling by the average of Mean Years of Schooling and Expected Years of Schooling ... and completely ignores tertiary education in the equation. Even so, according the UN rating, the US is in the top 10 on the Education index.

So, for America in the top 10 for two of the factors, not to make the top 50 means there are other factors (subjective factors that the bureaucrats at the UN find attractive) coming into this equation. What is the UN's agenda in publishing this data, other than to make other countries feel better about themselves?


The larger question is, if America is at the bottom of various lists a desirable model for people to live and work, why is it on the top of every list for countries into which people are trying to get in to?

But the United States is in the top 50 of the most developed nations in the World. In fact its at #13 in the world. Yes, high per capita GDP, 13th in the world in fact. Strong on education. Much weaker when it comes to life expectancy since it ranks at #34.

The point of this thread is that despite the United States high wealth and high rankings, It is one of only FIVE top 50 developed countries to not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens. That is a major failure for a country that is so wealthy and developed.

American voters decide what services we receive, and don't receive from our tax dollars.

American voters have been very clear that national health isn't our priority. It is much more of a priority to politicians would seek yet another way to keep the voter dependent on government.

It's telling that many of those 'developed' countries did not institute a national health system as part of a citizen plebiscite, but their citizens were told that they would be receiving these benefits, and the reciprocal tax burdens, for their own good ... and governments spent a great deal of money and effort selling their citizens on services they had no choice but to utilize.

As to what constitutes 'Universal Health' in your list, there seems to be some question. Many of the countries on that list, unable to pay for their healthcare system with taxes alone, have instituted mandatory health insurance and substantial co-payments to recoup the exorbitant costs of their healthcare system.

 

[Crepitus]

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

Nobody was upset about $5 billion for border security, we just didn't want to waste on a stupid useless wall.

Wrong




·
Jan 24

Proven effective in San Diego, walls helped stop vehicle drive-throughs, which were a common smuggling technique in the 1990’s. In this 5th video, Chief Scott explains how walls put an end to this dangerous smuggling method.

Not wrong. There's already a wall there.

 

[Crepitus]

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

Nobody was upset about $5 billion for border security, we just didn't want to waste on a stupid useless wall.

So what you’re saying there’s not much difference between 33 trillion and 5 billion?

No, but you are apparently saying you cannot read simple English.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.
bullshit,you can have the best healthcare there is but if you dont take care of your self what good did it do you?...many Americans have access to great healthcare but dont take great care of themselves....factors for life expectancy has more to do with how you take care of yourself then if you have good healthcare...

Most of the citizens of developed countries have similar lifestyles. Quality of healthcare and access to it is a more important factor when comparing life expectancy among developed countries.

Finally, even if their healthcare is at best equal to ours in quality, at least they provide it to everyone. There is very little evidence to support that Europeans have significantly worse quality healthcare. On average they live longer. Their healthcare quality is either equal too or better than that of the United States. Plus they provide it to all their citizens. They also spend less on healthcare than the United States does.

sure they do thats why i keep seeing things saying we have far more overweight people than other countries....

You'll find that most overweight and obese people tend to be among those in the lower class that have less access to healthcare and less access to low cost quality food. Universal healthcare could solve these problems.

yea sure they are.....you dont get out much do you?....over eating and not exercising is just as prevalent in the middle and upper classes.....

You obviously have not been to many low income areas of the United States. Where you live, your income level all impact whether you have access to healthcare and quality food.

you dont know shit about me do you?....i delivered mail to some pretty run down areas as well as the rich side of town....fat people and skinny people in both....and if those people took care of themselves they lived a better and healthier life,in spite of their ins or lack thereof........

 

[Crepitus]

Over 2000 lbs were caught being brought in through the rgv last week. That is what was caught. Figure what wasn’t.

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

Nobody was upset about $5 billion for border security, we just didn't want to waste on a stupid useless wall.

Wrong




·
Jan 24

Proven effective in San Diego, walls helped stop vehicle drive-throughs, which were a common smuggling technique in the 1990’s. In this 5th video, Chief Scott explains how walls put an end to this dangerous smuggling method.

A static wall can have some utility. But it can stop people who tunnel under the wall, people who climb over, or people who go through legal ports of entry. Most illegal aliens, and most illegal drugs, 90% in fact, come through legal ports of entry.

More drug sniffing dogs, better inspections, more baggage and vehicle checks. That's what will help, not some stupid wall.

 

[DOTR]

Below are the 50 most developed countries in the world ranked according to the UN Human Development index which measures development and standard of living through estimates of GDP per capita, life expectancy, and education. There are a total of 197 countries in the world today. 193 of those countries are part of the United Nations. 45 out of the 50 most developed countries in the world below provide UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE for its citizens, essentially medicare for all. The following are the five countries from the list below that do not:

01. Cyprus
02. United Arab Emirates
03. Qatar
04. Bahrain
05. United States

Cyprus is currently In the process of moving to a Universal Healthcare system which will be completed in a few years. That will leave the United States alone with three Arab countries as being the only countries, of the 50 most developed in the world, that do not have Universal HealthCare.

Why does the United States, the wealthiest country in the world and the 3rd wealthiest per captia country, still not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens? How could anyone say that Universal HealthCare is impossible or too expensive for the United States when nearly all of the 50 most developed countries in the world provide it for its citizens?


50 MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD RANKED:

01 - Norway
02 - Switzerland
03 - Australia
04 - Ireland
05 - Germany
06 - Iceland
07 - San Marino
08 - Sweden
09 - Singapore
10 - Netherlands
11 - Denmark
12 Canada
13 - United States
14 - United Kingdom
15 - Monaco
16 - Vatican City
17 - Finland
18 - New Zealand
19 - Belgium
20 - Liechtenstein
21 - Japan
22 - Austria
23 - Luxembourg
24 - Israel
25 - Taiwan
26 - South Korea
27 - France
28 - Slovenia
29 - Spain
30 - Czech Republic
31 - Italy
32 - Malta
33 - Estonia
34 - Greece
35 - Cyprus
36 - Poland
37 - United Arab Emirates
38 - Andorra
39 - Lithuania
40 - Qatar
41 - Slovakia
42 - Brunei
43 - Saudi Arabia
44 - Latvia
45 - Portugal
46 - Bahrain
47 - Chile
48 - Hungary
49 - Croatia
50 - Argentina

Thats one of the ways we *became* the greatest nation on earth...avoiding socialism.

 

[depotoo]

You can only speak for yourself, no one else.
Universal healthcare's dirty little secrets
Britain's Department of Health reported in 2006 that at any given time, nearly 900,000 Britons are waiting for admission to National Health Service hospitals, and shortages force the cancellation of more than 50,000 operations each year. In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks, and the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year. Many of these individuals suffer chronic pain, and judging by the numbers, some will probably die awaiting treatment.

How does one measure 'development'?

Is this developed?

Or this?

Development is measured by economist at the United Nations using the Human Development Index. The Human Development Index is based on 3 criteria:
01. GDP per capita
02. Life Expectancy
03. Education levels

No matter who is doing the measuring (IMF, World Bank, UN) the US is in the top 10 for GDP per capita. Interestingly enough, Macau (a city state former colony of Portugal whose revenue relies mostly on gamblers from Hong Kong and other parts of Asia) is in the top five.

A Google search shows Hong Kong in the number one slot for life expectancy world wide -- a country with no public health care. The UK, with its much vaunted National Health System falls to 29th place.

The UN system measures education levels by years of schooling by the average of Mean Years of Schooling and Expected Years of Schooling ... and completely ignores tertiary education in the equation. Even so, according the UN rating, the US is in the top 10 on the Education index.

So, for America in the top 10 for two of the factors, not to make the top 50 means there are other factors (subjective factors that the bureaucrats at the UN find attractive) coming into this equation. What is the UN's agenda in publishing this data, other than to make other countries feel better about themselves?


The larger question is, if America is at the bottom of various lists a desirable model for people to live and work, why is it on the top of every list for countries into which people are trying to get in to?

But the United States is in the top 50 of the most developed nations in the World. In fact its at #13 in the world. Yes, high per capita GDP, 13th in the world in fact. Strong on education. Much weaker when it comes to life expectancy since it ranks at #34.

The point of this thread is that despite the United States high wealth and high rankings, It is one of only FIVE top 50 developed countries to not provide Universal Healthcare for its citizens. That is a major failure for a country that is so wealthy and developed.