CDZ The 2nd Amendment

[martybegan]

Would you remove my right of free speech based on someone else abusing theirs.

One could argue that was already done with "time, place and manner" restrictions.

No. The 2nd amendment is still in force. Would you remove my 2nd amendment right because of something someone else did? Do you want to ban all guns? Would you like all guns to be confiscated?

I believe owning a gun should be akin to getting a pilot's license. You should have a great deal of training, extensive background checks, proven you have a safe place to store the weapons, and guns should have fingerprint operation, and registration.

Guns kill as many people as cars in this country, yet provide not even .01% of the utility of vehicles in this country. We trade 33,000 lives for what benefit? Feeling tough? An adrenaline rush? The occasional hunt?

Nope. How about we require the same for voting? Or getting an abortion?

A right is a right. and all that training/background checking/storage will not stop some nutter from getting one and shooting up a school, or some gang banger from hitting innocent people during a drive by. It would just allow government to de facto ban gun ownership via onerous fees and waiting periods.

Repeal the 2nd amendment first, then you can talk about what you want.

Funny you mention voting and abortion given that the same people who support the 2nd Amendment are incessantly stumping for unreasonable and undue burdens against both, despite there being no data that their burdens do anything but inhibit rights for no appreciable gain in any other kind of protection. ("protecting women" with unnecessary admitting privileges and wide hallways, "protecting voting integrity" by calling for voter ID even though voter impersonation is so small as to be statistically absent).

Showing an ID is not burdensome. If I could get a gun just by doing that in NYC I would be estatic.

And my views on abortion are neutral, I don't advocate banning them, I just don't see how Roe V Wade found a right to it that prevents States from banning them if they so choose.

 

[Divine Wind]

Nope. How about we require the same for voting? Or getting an abortion?

A right is a right. and all that training/background checking/storage will not stop some nutter from getting one and shooting up a school, or some gang banger from hitting innocent people during a drive by. It would just allow government to de facto ban gun ownership via onerous fees and waiting periods.

Repeal the 2nd amendment first, then you can talk about what you want.

The voting issue is a good topic for another CDZ thread since 1) it's not an enumerated right and 2) too many idiots are voting for stupid shit.

As for abortion, I support individual rights here up to the point where they conflict with other "individual" rights. Specifically, the 24 week stage of development.

Funny you mention voting and abortion given that the same people who support the 2nd Amendment are incessantly stumping for unreasonable and undue burdens against both, despite there being no data that their burdens do anything but inhibit rights for no appreciable gain in any other kind of protection. ("protecting women" with unnecessary admitting privileges and wide hallways, "protecting voting integrity" by calling for voter ID even though voter impersonation is so small as to be statistically absent).

Not me as I just posted.

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course I'm including suicides.

Please explain why we should exclude suicides.

Good for you and your safe. If only everyone else was so responsible.

Murder is taking away another person's rights. Suicide is exercising one's own rights.

One of the main purposes of government is to protect individual rights and be the arbitrator where two or more individual rights conflict. Oliver Wendall Holmes' "the right to swing one's fist...." idea.

 

[ding]

Would you remove my right of free speech based on someone else abusing theirs.

One could argue that was already done with "time, place and manner" restrictions.

No. The 2nd amendment is still in force. Would you remove my 2nd amendment right because of something someone else did? Do you want to ban all guns? Would you like all guns to be confiscated?

I believe owning a gun should be akin to getting a pilot's license. You should have a great deal of training, extensive background checks, proven you have a safe place to store the weapons, and guns should have fingerprint operation, and registration.

Guns kill as many people as cars in this country, yet provide not even .01% of the utility of vehicles in this country. We trade 33,000 lives for what benefit? Feeling tough? An adrenaline rush? The occasional hunt?

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. I believe you are mistaken about guns killing as many people as cars. The last statistics I saw from the FBI showed ~8000 gun deaths. Surely you are not including suicides, right? But putting that aside I have received extensive training and store my weapons in a safe. Would you like to take away my 2nd amendment rights? As to the reason for why we have the 2nd amendment that was answered extensively in the title thread.

Of course I'm including suicides.

Please explain why we should exclude suicides.

Good for you and your safe. If only everyone else was so responsible.

Because suicides are not gun violence they are suicides. Now why don't you be honest and admit that you won't stop until all guns are banned and confiscated? Because I have yet to read you write otherwise.

 

[ding]

Nope. How about we require the same for voting? Or getting an abortion?

A right is a right. and all that training/background checking/storage will not stop some nutter from getting one and shooting up a school, or some gang banger from hitting innocent people during a drive by. It would just allow government to de facto ban gun ownership via onerous fees and waiting periods.

Repeal the 2nd amendment first, then you can talk about what you want.

The voting issue is a good topic for another CDZ thread since 1) it's not an enumerated right and 2) too many idiots are voting for stupid shit.

As for abortion, I support individual rights here up to the point where they conflict with other "individual" rights. Specifically, the 24 week stage of development.

Funny you mention voting and abortion given that the same people who support the 2nd Amendment are incessantly stumping for unreasonable and undue burdens against both, despite there being no data that their burdens do anything but inhibit rights for no appreciable gain in any other kind of protection. ("protecting women" with unnecessary admitting privileges and wide hallways, "protecting voting integrity" by calling for voter ID even though voter impersonation is so small as to be statistically absent).

Not me as I just posted.

They are fully human at conception. So says DNA. That same DNA says they are specific persons too. Persons who have never existed before and will never exist again.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mod Message:

I don't have time to clean this right now. Will remain closed til everyone calms the funk down.
MIGHT reopen later. Depending on who gets thrown out and how much you left us to clean..