The 2 sides of Affirmative Action

[Dante]

Pragmatically speaking, I really don't give a crap about AA. I haven't suffered anything as a result of it and I don't imagine many really have. And even for the odd 'victim' story, big deal. You don't get into every school, you don't get every job, you don't win every contract. Chances are you'll get the next one. That's life.

On the other hand...

I find the concept of affirmative action philosophically objectionable for the simple reason that it forces race into the equation. And that seems like the exact opposite thing you'd want to do if eliminating racism is the goal.

context vs philosophical bullshit:

AA didn't inject race into the equation, racism did. AA was a remedy, a remedy some may say is flawed, but there we had to start somewhere.

btw, on more than one occasion, I was a victim of reverse discrimination, if you want to phrase it that way. You maybe weren't because you were born a few years too late and probably in a lily white suburb that benefited from white flight.



---

like I told somebody earlier: we are not programming here. We are discussion ideas. Ideas are not code. Unlike the world of computers and the people who live on them, the real world is full of nuance and inferences and more...that has not been programmed into a get/grab/fetch.

your quote: "...seems like the exact opposite thing you'd want to do if eliminating racism is the goal." is based on a flawed grasp of ideas and discussion.

You truly have a gift for eloquently saying absolutely nothing.

as do you.

 

[Dante]

Affirmative action is not much of an impact on anyone in recent years.
But many love to have it around to whine about.

mani's, philosophical masturbation aside, affirmative action was a remedy for something. I wonder what that was?

 

[Immanuel]

I have not seen much Afirmative Action in the last 20 years. It used to mean quotas, explaining why you did not hire a woman or minority and everything had a number.

Now it is more expanding oportunities to minority areas and making sure that jobs are fully advertised.

Let me guess... the highlighted part was when the Republicans were in power. Everything changed the moment a Democratic Administration/Congress took control. Right?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

What alternative would you suggest?

Nothing.

I don't believe anthing is necessary.

So, do you believe we've eliminated racism, or it never existed to begin with?

If I can add my two cents into this, we have not done either, but I don't believe that we will accomplish the elimination of racism as long as affirmative action continues on as a policy. Not that we ever will mind you, but AA exacerbates the problem.

Immie

 

[Samson]

Nothing.

I don't believe anthing is necessary.

So, do you believe we've eliminated racism, or it never existed to begin with?

If I can add my two cents into this, we have not done either, but I don't believe that we will accomplish the elimination of racism as long as affirmative action continues on as a policy. Not that we ever will mind you, but AA exacerbates the problem.

Immie

So you think that the absense of AA would make the problem less, even though the presense of AA has made the problem less?

 

[manifold]

So, do you believe we've eliminated racism, or it never existed to begin with?

If I can add my two cents into this, we have not done either, but I don't believe that we will accomplish the elimination of racism as long as affirmative action continues on as a policy. Not that we ever will mind you, but AA exacerbates the problem.

Immie

So you think that the absense of AA would make the problem less, even though the presense of AA has made the problem less?

You state that as if it is a fact.

It is not.

 

[Samson]

If I can add my two cents into this, we have not done either, but I don't believe that we will accomplish the elimination of racism as long as affirmative action continues on as a policy. Not that we ever will mind you, but AA exacerbates the problem.

Immie

So you think that the absense of AA would make the problem less, even though the presense of AA has made the problem less?

You state that as if it is a fact.

It is not.

Really? If I go to NAACP.COM, I wonder what I'll find?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Affirmative Action is an executive order prohibiting discrimination in the work place. I have no problem with that executive order.

That execuive order is discrimination. When one group is given preferential treatment over another group, that is descrimination plain and simple.

How do you check to see whether or not someone is discriminating?

I think you should have the right to like or dislike anyone for whatever reason you choose and you should be able to hire accordingly.

 

[Samson]

That execuive order is discrimination. When one group is given preferential treatment over another group, that is descrimination plain and simple.

How do you check to see whether or not someone is discriminating?

I think you should have the right to like or dislike anyone for whatever reason you choose and you should be able to hire accordingly.

That's evasive, but you're certainly welcome to have an opinion.

 

[Immanuel]

So, do you believe we've eliminated racism, or it never existed to begin with?

If I can add my two cents into this, we have not done either, but I don't believe that we will accomplish the elimination of racism as long as affirmative action continues on as a policy. Not that we ever will mind you, but AA exacerbates the problem.

Immie

So you think that the absense of AA would make the problem less, even though the presense of AA has made the problem less?

Actually, I do believe that America has gotten to the point where AA has become detrimental to race relations. It has begun to breed racial hatred on both sides and I don't see that changing. You are not going to get it through the heads of the KKK that a black man is just as human as he is no matter what you do. And AA doesn't breed any good reactions from the black side either. It only increases the feelings of dislike on either side.

Yes, I do think that the absence of AA would improve race relations... at least I pray humanity has begun to get over that hump. Every generation gets a little more tolerant of the other races because we are teaching our kids to be that way. Sooner or later we need to remove the stumbling block that is preventing true racial reconciliation.

Discrimination will never, unfortunately, be completely wiped out, but AA has served its purpose and I believe it is time to begin really working towards the U.S. being a true colorblind society.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

So you think that the absense of AA would make the problem less, even though the presense of AA has made the problem less?

You state that as if it is a fact.

It is not.

Really? If I go to NAACP.COM, I wonder what I'll find?

Would you really consider that a neutral site?

Immie

 

[Samson]

Actually, I do believe that America has gotten to the point where AA has become detrimental to race relations.

It has begun to breed racial hatred on both sides and I don't see that changing.

Didn't we just elect President who is half black?

Why do you believe AA has, "begun to breed racial hatred on both sides?"

 

[Immanuel]

Actually, I do believe that America has gotten to the point where AA has become detrimental to race relations.

It has begun to breed racial hatred on both sides and I don't see that changing.

Didn't we just elect President who is half black?

Yes, so? Had Martin Luther King Jr. not been assassinated, it is quite possible that this would have happened before the turn of the century.

Why do you believe AA has, "begun to breed racial hatred on both sides?"

Because I believe that it breeds resentment on both sides.

Cases like The Alan Bakke case breeds hatred from the whites and that in turn breeds the resentment and hatred on the other side. AA is like rubbing salt on old wounds as the saying goes.

Immie

 

[Samson]

Actually, I do believe that America has gotten to the point where AA has become detrimental to race relations.

It has begun to breed racial hatred on both sides and I don't see that changing.

Didn't we just elect President who is half black?

Yes, so? Had Martin Luther King Jr. not been assassinated, it is quite possible that this would have happened before the turn of the century.

Why do you believe AA has, "begun to breed racial hatred on both sides?"

Because I believe that it breeds resentment on both sides.

Cases like The Alan Bakke case breeds hatred from the whites and that in turn breeds the resentment and hatred on the other side. AA is like rubbing salt on old wounds as the saying goes.

Immie

MLK was assasinated in 1968

Um....Bakke case? It was back in 1973

Let's try to focus.

You are saying that NOW, today, AA is "detrimental to race relations,"

Yet, only in November 2008, the USA elected a president that is half black.

What has happened during the past 15 months to cause you to think AA in particular might be to blame for increasing racial tension.

 

[Immanuel]

Didn't we just elect President who is half black?

Yes, so? Had Martin Luther King Jr. not been assassinated, it is quite possible that this would have happened before the turn of the century.

Why do you believe AA has, "begun to breed racial hatred on both sides?"

Because I believe that it breeds resentment on both sides.

Cases like The Alan Bakke case breeds hatred from the whites and that in turn breeds the resentment and hatred on the other side. AA is like rubbing salt on old wounds as the saying goes.

Immie

MLK was assasinated in 1968

Um....Bakke case? It was back in 1973

Let's try to focus.

You are saying that NOW, today, AA is "detrimental to race relations,"

Yet, only in November 2008, the USA elected a president that is half black.

What has happened during the past 15 months to cause you to think AA in particular might be to blame for increasing racial tension.

What does the last 15 months have to do with anything in this discussion?

This discussion is not about the last 15 months it is about whether or not Affirmative Action has served its purpose and it had done so a lot longer than 15 months ago.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Didn't we just elect President who is half black?

Yes, so? Had Martin Luther King Jr. not been assassinated, it is quite possible that this would have happened before the turn of the century.

Why do you believe AA has, "begun to breed racial hatred on both sides?"

Because I believe that it breeds resentment on both sides.

Cases like The Alan Bakke case breeds hatred from the whites and that in turn breeds the resentment and hatred on the other side. AA is like rubbing salt on old wounds as the saying goes.

Immie

MLK was assasinated in 1968

Um....Bakke case? It was back in 1973

Let's try to focus.

You are saying that NOW, today, AA is "detrimental to race relations,"

Yet, only in November 2008, the USA elected a president that is half black.

What has happened during the past 15 months to cause you to think AA in particular might be to blame for increasing racial tension.

Are you trying to insinuate that AA is only fulfilled BECAUSE we finally elected a black President? If so, I don't agree with that. Was the goal of AA to elect the first black President?

Immie

 

[Samson]

Yes, so? Had Martin Luther King Jr. not been assassinated, it is quite possible that this would have happened before the turn of the century.



Because I believe that it breeds resentment on both sides.

Cases like The Alan Bakke case breeds hatred from the whites and that in turn breeds the resentment and hatred on the other side. AA is like rubbing salt on old wounds as the saying goes.

Immie

MLK was assasinated in 1968

Um....Bakke case? It was back in 1973

Let's try to focus.

You are saying that NOW, today, AA is "detrimental to race relations,"

Yet, only in November 2008, the USA elected a president that is half black.

What has happened during the past 15 months to cause you to think AA in particular might be to blame for increasing racial tension.

What does the last 15 months have to do with anything in this discussion?

This discussion is not about the last 15 months it is about whether or not Affirmative Action has served its purpose and it had done so a lot longer than 15 months ago.

Immie

Are you being dense on purpose?

I'll try once more.

1. YOU said AA is "detrimental to race relations," and then began babbling about events over 40 years old.

2. We had AA 15 months ago, AND ELECTED A PRESIDENT THAT IS HALF BLACK.

3. Everything seems to be going along FINE, why do you want to change AA??

 

[xsited1]

Pragmatically speaking, I really don't give a crap about AA. I haven't suffered anything as a result of it and I don't imagine many really have. And even for the odd 'victim' story, big deal. You don't get into every school, you don't get every job, you don't win every contract. Chances are you'll get the next one. That's life.

On the other hand...

I find the concept of affirmative action philosophically objectionable for the simple reason that it forces race into the equation. And that seems like the exact opposite thing you'd want to do if eliminating racism is the goal.

I'm glad AA allowed Barack Obama to become President of the United States.

 

[Dante]

Pragmatically speaking, I really don't give a crap about AA. I haven't suffered anything as a result of it and I don't imagine many really have. And even for the odd 'victim' story, big deal. You don't get into every school, you don't get every job, you don't win every contract. Chances are you'll get the next one. That's life.

On the other hand...

I find the concept of affirmative action philosophically objectionable for the simple reason that it forces race into the equation. And that seems like the exact opposite thing you'd want to do if eliminating racism is the goal.

I'm glad AA allowed Barack Obama to become President of the United States.

yeah I hear Mitt Romney has filed suit in Connecticut declaring he was a victim of reverse discrimination.

 

[xsited1]

Pragmatically speaking, I really don't give a crap about AA. I haven't suffered anything as a result of it and I don't imagine many really have. And even for the odd 'victim' story, big deal. You don't get into every school, you don't get every job, you don't win every contract. Chances are you'll get the next one. That's life.

On the other hand...

I find the concept of affirmative action philosophically objectionable for the simple reason that it forces race into the equation. And that seems like the exact opposite thing you'd want to do if eliminating racism is the goal.

I'm glad AA allowed Barack Obama to become President of the United States.

yeah I hear Mitt Romney has filed suit in Connecticut declaring he was a victim of reverse discrimination.

Not only that, but since Mitt Romney is a Mormon, he can sue on the basis of religious discrimination.