That WAS The Democratic and Repubican Party

[struth]

Sir that's false. Communists allow personal property, not private property. Private property is all property that is used to exploit others for profit. You can own a house, a plot of land, car, all of the stuff you own now, provided it's for personal use. In communism, your personal property is even more secure, than under capitalism.

The government of a constitutional, Republic, that is democratic is a better boss than a private company run like a totalitarian dictatorship. Most big companies are run like fiefdoms. When was last time you voted in an election in the workplace? I prefer a boss that holds elections, like my government. Don't drink the capitalist Kool-Aid.

Haha yes socialism won’t allow people to have private property, because they are all slaves to the govt, who can only own it.

That’s why it’s slavery

 

[struth]

Ok. Let's say as an individual you can fashion an axe, chop wood, construct that wood into a house and that all those are the fruit of your labor. I can dig that. Now how about a mountain or a Forrest or a cobalt mine. How do you come to own that? Did you fashion that mountain or cobalt mine with your own two hands and the sweat of your brow?

You purchased the mine or mountain…how’s that any different then purchasing the wood to build the house? Or the land the house sits?


Why don’t you think people should be able to own mines?

 

[el midgetron]

Yes, like that and your own two eyes and ears that can see and hear and comprehend the anguish in the people who you are enslaving.

So just to be clear. You believe that someone who lived hundreds of years ago, in a different culture than your own, held the same beliefs and values as you do today?

How about Frederick Douglass?

Fredrick Douglas was a great American. While he was not of European decent he was born into Western Civilization. Try again.

Thats a silly argument. One only has to look at who the wealthy nations are today to see where the wealth from antiquity has ended up.

Right because no one ever fought over wealth before white people did. You literally have to ignore all of human history to make the arguments you do. Western Civilization just did better at the universal struggle between different peoples. They won the race of civilizations.

You don't get credit for stopping some brutality that you've been engaging in. It's like asking for a pat of the back because you've decided to stop beating your wife.

No you do get credit for that. Redemption is a real thing. People can and do grow and change. If there is no redemption, then no one deserves credit for any social advancement. Slavery was practiced the globe over, it’s part of culture’s history. There are far fewer who have a claim to abolition.

 

[Red Front]

My wife and I love Fairchild Tropical Garden which is right next door to Matheson which used to have this really nice restaurant on the pier there called Redfish but I think it's been closed since Covid. The restaurant I mean. There's still usually a decent amount of people out there windsurfing on the weekends.

I love Miami-Dade. Maybe one day I'll move back there. It's extremely expensive now. I remember back in the 1990s, you could get a nice apartment in Miami Beach, even South Beach under $1000 dollars. A few hundred bucks. When I completed my service in the military in the late 90s, I rented a nice apartment in Miami Beach for $625 monthly. Big, nice, one-bedroom apartment, near the beach. That same apartment today is $3200 monthly.

 

[el midgetron]

I don't know who's eating human flesh. Do you believe the current president of Haiti is a "cannibal"? Seriously? Hey maybe you have evidence for that, but what are the circumstances behind this? Do you think mentioning this justifies what Europeans particularly France, did to Haiti?

I assume you are not following what’s happening in Haiti. It’s been all over the news for weeks now……

 

[Red Front]

Haha yes socialism won’t allow people to have private property, because they are all slaves to the govt, who can only own it.

That’s why it’s slavery

Private property doesn't exist, no one owns it, not even the government. Under capitalism, you're truly a slave, because your capitalist boss, will never hold elections in the workplace. You're reduced to a commodity and wage slave, working under a tyrant who never holds elections. I prefer to have a government that runs elections, allowing me to elect my managers, as my boss, than a private company run like a totalitarian dictatorship.

 

[Red Front]

I assume you are not following what’s happening in Haiti. It’s been all over the news for weeks now……

Really? I'll check it out, thanks. Even if that's the case it doesn't justify what was done to Haiti.

 

[Curried Goats]

You purchased the mine or mountain…how’s that any different then purchasing the wood to build the house? Or the land the house sits?


Why don’t you think people should be able to own mines?

I wasn't talking about purchasing anything. I was saying how I understood and agreed with the fundamental idea that a thing could belong to you by combining your efforts and skill and ability on resources to fashion something new, like an axe or a house. I wasn't yet talking about purchasing anything with requires an economic system and a government to create and manage and the nuances between that and what you call slavery in a socialist system. We hadn't really gotten there yet. But to answer your question no, I don't think someone can own a mountain or a mine without force.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Sir that's false. Communists allow personal property, not private property. Private property is all property that is used to exploit others for profit. You can own a house, a plot of land, car, all of the stuff you own now, provided it's for personal use. In communism, your personal property is even more secure, than under capitalism.

The government of a constitutional, Republic, that is democratic is a better boss than a private company run like a totalitarian dictatorship. Most big companies are run like fiefdoms. When was last time you voted in an election in the workplace? I prefer a boss that holds elections, like my government. Don't drink the capitalist Kool-Aid.

Ok. Let's say as an individual you can fashion an axe, chop wood, construct that wood into a house and that all those are the fruit of your labor. I can dig that. Now how about a mountain or a Forrest or a cobalt mine. How do you come to own that? Did you fashion that mountain or cobalt mine with your own two hands and the sweat of your brow?

Is there something in the water in Miami….something that compels people to embrace socialism/marxism/communism? Do the schools program people to need Father Government to control their lives?

 

[Curried Goats]

So just to be clear. You believe that someone who lived hundreds of years ago, in a different culture than your own, held the same beliefs and values as you do today?

1. I don't think values have anything to do with days, months, years or even centuries. Time doesn't place value on anything so time doesn't have values, people do.

2. No. I don't think slavers shared the same values as I do. I also don't think that time has anything to do with it. I don't share values with plenty of people in this time either.

Fredrick Douglas was a great American. While he was not of European decent he was born into Western Civilization. Try again.

You said non Europeans. If that was a typo and you meant European then one of favorite writers and European philosphers (even though I don't agree with much of what he argues for) and another Frederick but in this case he's French so it's Frédéric Bastiat. Here is a passage from one of my favorite books on politics, The Law

There is no country in the world where the law is kept more within its proper domain: the protection of every person's liberty and property. As a consequence of this, there appears to be no country in the world where the social order rests on a firmer foundation. But even in the United States, there are two issues—and only two—that have always endangered the public peace.​

​

What are these two issues? They are slavery and tariffs. These are the only two issues where, contrary to the general spirit of the republic of the United States, law has assumed the character of a plunderer.​

​

Slavery is a violation, by law, of liberty. The protective tariff is a violation, by law, of property.​

Right because no one ever fought over wealth before white people did. You literally have to ignore all of human history to make the arguments you do.

Thats not what I'm saying.

Western Civilization just did better at the universal struggle between different peoples. They won the race of civilizations.

That's what I'm saying. With brutality and subjugation.

No you do get credit for that. Redemption is a real thing. People can and do grow and change. If there is no redemption, then no one deserves credit for any social advancement. Slavery was practiced the globe over, it’s part of culture’s history. There are far fewer who have a claim to abolition.

Redemption requires acceptance of your wrongs. White American culture has fought accepting that every step of the way.

 

[struth]

I wasn't talking about purchasing anything. I was saying how I understood and agreed with the fundamental idea that a thing could belong to you by combining your efforts and skill and ability on resources to fashion something new, like an axe or a house. I wasn't yet talking about purchasing anything with requires an economic system and a government to create and manage and the nuances between that and what you call slavery in a socialist system. We hadn't really gotten there yet. But to answer your question no, I don't think someone can own a mountain or a mine without force.

Nobody said you didn’t need a govt. A free society can and should have one

A govt however doesn’t have to be a socialist regime that is oppressive and creates slaves

 

[Curried Goats]

Is there something in the water in Miami….something that compels people to embrace socialism/marxism/communism? Do the schools program people to need Father Government to control their lives?

Is there something in the uneducated that makes them recoil from conversations that challenge their views and preconceptions?

 

[Curried Goats]

Nobody said you didn’t need a govt. A free society can and should have one

A govt however doesn’t have to be a socialist regime that is oppressive and creates slaves

But explain how it works. How do you own a mountain or a mine or resources on a large scale without force?

 

[el midgetron]

"Fundamental Human Level" Explained: This term refers to the basic human understanding and empathy that suffering, especially the suffering inflicted by slavery, is wrong. It's not about inherent knowledge or instinct but a recognition of injustice when one sees or experiences it. The existence of slavery throughout history does not negate the capacity for human societies to evolve morally and ethically. Changes in societal norms and values, including the understanding of slavery's immorality, are part of human development

Your claim about human empathy doesn’t explain why slavery has existed for all of human history.

“Changes is societal norms and values”???? You don’t say….. Something more than human empathy drove that change.

Historical Perspectives on Slavery: It's incorrect to say that only with the Enlightenment did people start thinking slavery was morally wrong. Across various cultures and times, there have been voices against the practice of enslaving others. For example, in the Islamic world, figures like Ahmad Baba al-Timbukti (1556–1627) argued against the enslavement of fellow Muslims, which was against Islamic law. In ancient India, Buddhist and Jain texts speak against violence, which can be extended to the violence of enslaving others. These examples show that moral opposition to slavery isn't a Western invention but a human concern.

Those examples and crap.

Muslims were always morally fine with slavery. Most people rejected enslaving their own. If they did it was a more of a contractual arrangement.

Buddhist opposition to violence does not expand to slavery except in the hopeful minds of people who hate the West. Buddha did call for ending the trading of slaves and for slaves to be treated compassionately. But not for ending their servitude because Buddha did not morally oppose slavery.

Economic Benefits and the Role of Africans in the Slave Trade: It's overly simplistic and misleading to claim that "no one profited more from slavery than the Africans." While it's true that some African entities engaged in slave trading,

“Some African entities” ? You are bordering on apologizing for the most prolific slave traders in history.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Is there something in the uneducated that makes them recoil from conversations that challenge their views and preconceptions?

The “uneducated” believe they can’t pave their own way, be self-sufficient and build wealth without Father Government leading them around by the nose.
One more reason you foreigners should NEVER have a say here.

 

[Orangecat]

Under capitalism, you're truly a slave, because your capitalist boss, will never hold elections in the workplace.

Slaves are captive. You can fire your employer by quitting the job. That's not slavery, child.

 

[Curried Goats]

The “uneducated” believe they can’t pave their own way, be self-sufficient and build wealth without Father Government leading them around by the nose.
One more reason you foreigners should NEVER have a say here.

Is that why you all live under government and not by yourselves in the mountains or the woods somewhere?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Is that why you all live under government and not by yourselves in the mountains or the woods somewhere?

hahaha…You needy, dependent beggars have never been taught about the enumerated powers have you?
Red Front

 

[el midgetron]

1. I don't think values have anything to do with days, months, years or even centuries. Time doesn't place value on anything so time doesn't have values, people do.

2. No. I don't think slavers shared the same values as I do. I also don't think that time has anything to do with it. I don't share values with plenty of people in this time either.

Societies, just like the people who make them up, grow over time. You are welcome to not believe this but it’s just fact.

You said non Europeans. If that was a typo and you meant European then one of favorite writers and European philosphers (even though I don't agree with much of what he argues for) and another Frederick but in this case he's French so it's Frédéric Bastiat. Here is a passage from one of my favorite books on politics,

Yeah, I was using “European” in the context of civilization and would consider America a part of European civilization. But am happen to hyphenate it to European and American. The Americans did a great deal to end slavery.

Redemption requires acceptance of your wrongs. White American culture has fought accepting that every step of the way.

You just see the glass as half empty. Americans fought to change who they were. No one was forcing that change upon themselves, it was their own beliefs and values that motivated the change. It was as much birthing pains as it was resistance.

 

[Curried Goats]

I love Miami-Dade. Maybe one day I'll move back there. It's extremely expensive now. I remember back in the 1990s, you could get a nice apartment in Miami Beach, even South Beach under $1000 dollars. A few hundred bucks. When I completed my service in the military in the late 90s, I rented a nice apartment in Miami Beach for $625 monthly. Big, nice, one-bedroom apartment, near the beach. That same apartment today is $3200 monthly.

Those were the days my friend. My best friend rented a condo in Bal Harbor for like $800 a month when we were in our late teens, early 20s. Best frigging years of my life. It's ridiculous right now but luckily my family were smart enough and blessed enough to buy property in the 80s. My uncle bought a town house off Kendall Drive in the 80s for $75,000. That place is probably half a million right now and his mother owned a home in Coral Cables right next to UM. She sold that thing at the height of the housing bubble in the early 2000s and most us moved north to Pembroke Pines and Weston. My mom, one of my brothers and a few of my aunts and some cousins are still holding it down around the Hammocks.