Greenbeard
Gold Member
I think you've adequately demonstrated the quality of the arguments against it. You are a credit to your cult.
Thank you for the 47 percent increase in my health care rate
- Thread starter TheGreatGatsby
- Start date
I think you've adequately demonstrated the quality of the arguments against it. You are a credit to your cult.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
Greenbeard
Gold Member
Reading is hard.
Obamanation
Silver Member
- Sep 6, 2012
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WOW! feeble attempt at sarcasm. I assume that you mean know that you are beat, and that spreading more dishonest information will gain you nothing.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
Oh I am sorry, you nestled my question into another quote, I am most humbly apologize...
so lets see , your are saying it appears; that not only is it still budget neutral, according to what was forecast, but, it is even more so because of a 'slow down in health cost growth'?
so what 'health cost' , exactly, has gone down?
Obamanation
Silver Member
- Sep 6, 2012
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...and show us where the Heratige Foundation was involved in the implementation of the ACA? hmmmm --- not invited to those closed door meetings either, were they?
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
you don't get it; like gramm rudman from what 86? was turned into the "sequester", so to has a heritage paper been turned into obamacare- when any negative effect needs to be deflected it gets back and anything good will of course be glommed onto as "see OUR plan is working!!!!"...
Greenbeard
Gold Member
I realize this must be very hard to grasp because of the stuff Rush is spoonfeeding. So I'll keep it simple.
At the beginning of 2009, when Obama took office and five months before the health reform bills rolled out, Medicare was expected to cost $963 billion by the end of the decade, 2019. Flash forward to February 2013: now it's expected to cost $811 billion in 2019. Total savings of $152 billion in a single year. Meanwhile, the February 2013 estimates of the total net cost of the Affordable Care Act at the end of the decade--coverage provisions, tax credits, everything--are that it will cost $149 billion in 2019.
As I said, when they were passing this legislation it was assumed a lot more revenues were needed to cover the costs because the size of the savings we're seeing today wasn't anticipated back then. Who knew?
Elmendorf has to take to his blog to explain this one:
Trajan said:
It must indeed be hard to be you guys right now.
Last edited:
Sallow
The Big Bad Wolf.
Data manipulation. Ha! Good one.
Here let me show you how it's done.
1+1=2.
Let me know if you need any more data manipulated.
Obamanation
Silver Member
- Sep 6, 2012
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Data manipulation. Ha! Good one.
Here let me show you how it's done.
1+1=2.
Let me know if you need any more data manipulated.
So you don't have a point at all???
Thanks for stopping by!!
Articles in your first query that support you claim were from WorldNutDaily and a WSJ op-ed.
Second query only shows articles highlighting a preexisting trend.
As for the third query, normally you guys love spending cuts.
Obamanation
Silver Member
- Sep 6, 2012
- 1,856
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Well that's peculiar. My first query returned 19 million results... and that is all you got out of it? You sure are a simple minded fool....
I found this... How did you miss it?
Obamacare Guarantees Higher Health Insurance Premiums -- $3,000+ Higher
In 2013, Millions Of Americans Face Obamacare Tax Hikes Sally Pipes Contributor Obamacare's Cruel War On Patient-Centered Healthcare Sally Pipes Contributor Obamacare's Rationers Employ The "It's Good For You" Defense Sally Pipes Contributor In The Aftermath Of Obama's Re-Election, What's Next For Health Care? Sally Pipes Contributor
(Photo credit: Mike Licht, NotionsCapital.com)
President Obama will deliver a second inaugural address later this month. He’ll no doubt reflect on what he’s done during his first four years in office — and on his signature healthcare law in particular.
Let’s reflect with him. During his first campaign for the presidency in 2008, the president promised that his health reform plan would “bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family” by the end of his first term.
Well, that first term is just about up. And health insurance isnÂ’t any cheaper. In fact, itÂ’s more expensive. Premiums have increased by an average of $3,065. And theyÂ’re about to go up even more, as Obamacare takes effect during the presidentÂ’s second term.
At the end of 2012, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, the third-largest health insurer in the country, warned that many consumers would face “premium rate shock” with the advent of Obamacare’s major insurance regulations in 2014. He predicted that unsubsidized premiums would rise 20 to 50 percent, on average.
For some people, premiums would double. “We’re going to see some markets go up as much as 100 percent,” Bertolini told Bloomberg News.
Aetna isn’t the only company forecasting higher health-insurance premiums. In California, Blue Shield has asked regulators to approve premium increases of up to 20 percent. Obamacare’s new regulations were a factor in the request. A spokesperson for the company said the new law “will bring a lot of volatility” into the market.
A shock? Not to those whoÂ’ve been paying attention. When Obamacare was making its way through Congress, the Congressional Budget Office warned that premiums in the individual market would increase by 10-13 percent.
Even the lawÂ’s designers admit that it will raise premiums. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Economics Professor Jonathan Gruber, one of ObamacareÂ’s chief architects, estimated that premiums in Wisconsin would rise by about 30 percent by 2016 following implementation of the law. Most of the Badger StateÂ’s individual insurance market will see an even larger increase, averaging about 41 percent.
ObamacareÂ’s defenders typically respond that the lawÂ’s subsidies will decrease what people actually pay out-of-pocket for insurance.
But thatÂ’s not always the case. Many individuals will still pay more even after they receive the generous subsidies to which the law entitles them. According to a report conducted by Gruber, 59 percent of the individual market will end up paying more after taking the subsidies into account. The average increase? Nearly a third.
These premium hikes will hit young people hardest. As The New York Times reported in October, insurers and health policy wonks are warning that the young will “face higher premiums because of a provision that limits how much rates can vary based on a person’s age.”
Typically, insurers charge older individuals more because they have higher average health costs. But because Obamacare includes a “community rating” provision that restricts how much insurers can charge people of different ages, the young will end up paying more — essentially subsidizing the coverage of older individuals who require more expensive care.
These wonÂ’t be small increases. Health insurance expert Bob Laszewski has said that young adults should expect their premiums to double thanks to ObamacareÂ’s rules.
The law will make insurance more expensive for everyone else by saddling it with expensive mandates. Obamacare tasks states with figuring out which health benefits are “essential” and thus mandatory for insurers.
The result? Furious lobbying by every healthcare group, from acupuncturists to chiropractors to fertility specialists, all of whom want to make sure that coverage of their services is required for all policies issued in the state. The more coverage mandates there are, the higher premiums rise. Indeed, benefit mandates can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of insurance.
As President Obama’s second term unfolds, few — if any — families will see the $2,500 in health insurance savings he promised four years ago. The White House is now clinging to the hope that premiums won’t rise quite as fast as they have in the past.
In other words, health insurance costs are going up. And for that, you can thank Obamacare.
and even THIS from the NY Times socialist rag....
Workers at a circuit-board factory here just saw their health insurance premiums rise 20 percent. At Buddy ZarembaÂ’s print shop nearby, the increase was 37 percent. And for engineers at the Woodland Design Group, they rose 43 percent.
Enlarge This Image
Cheryl Senter for The New York Times
Buddy Zaremba, vice president of RAM Printing in Manchester, N.H.
Related
House Votes to Help Small Businesses Comply With Health Bill, but Relief Is Held Up (March 4, 2011)
Enlarge This Image
Cheryl Senter for The New York Times
Robert Woodland, president of Woodland Design Group, which has seen their health insurance premiums rise by 43 percent.
ReadersÂ’ Comments
Readers shared their thoughts on this article.
Read All Comments (273) »
The new federal health care law may eventually “bend the cost curve” downward, as proponents argue. But for now, at many workplaces here, the rising cost of health care is prompting insurance premiums to skyrocket while coverage is shrinking.
As Congress continues to debate the new health care law, health insurance costs are still rising, particularly for small businesses. Republicans are seizing on the trend as evidence that the new law includes expensive features that are driving up premiums. But the insurance industry says premiums are rising primarily because of the underlying cost of care and a growing demand for it.
Across the country, premiums have more than doubled in the last decade, with smaller companies particularly hard hit in recent years, federal officials say.
In New Hampshire, where the population is among the healthiest in the nation, according to various surveys, the insurance market for individuals, families and small businesses is extremely fragile. More than 90 percent of private employers in New Hampshire have fewer than 50 employees. Small and medium-size employers try to shop around for health insurance, but have few alternatives from which to choose.
This year, groups of more than 20 workers have been experiencing premium increases of around 20 percent, insurance agents say, while smaller groups are seeing increases of 40 percent to 60 percent or more.
“The rate of increase is phenomenal,” said Jean Pierre La Tourette, owner of Flora Ventures, a florist with 11 employees in Newmarket, N.H., near Portsmouth. When he was recently notified that the monthly premium for single employees at his firm was going up by $229, or 40 percent, to $789, Mr. La Tourette said, he felt “a combination of anger and frustration.”
Economists and state regulators say health insurance is expensive primarily because health care is expensive.
“You won’t really address the cost of health insurance unless you address the cost of health care itself,” New Hampshire’s insurance commissioner, Roger A. Sevigny, said.
In a letter explaining Mr. La Tourette’s new rate, Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield said it resulted, in part, from “an increase in medical trends, especially the utilization of services and the underlying cost of health care, for all small-group customers.”
William P. DeLuca III and his family own several companies, including four car dealerships and the Bank of New England, which together have 550 employees in New Hampshire and eastern Massachusetts. To obtain a better rate, Mr. DeLuca said, he switched this year to Harvard Pilgrim Health Care from Tufts Health Plan. The Tufts increase would have been 23 percent, he said, while Harvard PilgrimÂ’s was 19 percent.
“It’s out of control,” Mr. DeLuca said. “The cost of living is barely going up 1 or 2 percent a year. But we and our employees have to absorb these huge increases in health insurance costs.”
Some insurance industry lobbyists say the new federal health care law is driving up premiums. But Vincent Capozzi, senior vice president for sales and customer service at Harvard Pilgrim, said that only one percentage point of the increases here was attributable to the federal law, mainly its requirement for free coverage of preventive services.
Another percentage point results from new state laws requiring coverage of hearing aids and certain treatments for autism, Mr. Capozzi said. Most of the remainder, he said, reflects increases in the use and cost of medical care by small-group customers, with adjustments for demographic characteristics like age.
In many cases, insurance coverage is shrinking as deductibles are increasing and choices of hospitals are more limited. Robert I. Woodland, the president of the Woodland Design Group, said his company had experienced double-digit increases in premiums for seven years, even as benefits were whittled back. Most recently, he was notified that the rates were being increased 43 percent, so the monthly premium for a single worker would be $550, up from $384.
“Essentially, we have been paying a lot more for a lot less,” Mr. Woodland said. “It’s outrageous. I cannot imagine charging my clients 43 percent more in a single year.”
James D. Bell Jr., the president of the EPE Corporation, which assembles electronic circuit boards at its factory here, said health insurance trends were starkly different from those of his other business expenses.
“Everywhere else I see a decrease in costs as a percentage of sales when the business grows,” Mr. Bell said. “We can buy raw circuit boards from hundreds of suppliers in the United States and overseas. But only two or three health plans make serious bids for our business.”
In an effort to save money last year, Mr. ZarembaÂ’s company, RAM Printing, chose a health plan that required employees to pay more of the cost. The added expense had an immediate impact.
“I took a 5 percent cut in pay, because of the economy, and I was paying more for health care at the same time,” said Gary J. Silveira, a longtime print shop employee. “We still owe $1,000 to our family doctor; I’m paying $100 a month. I’m three months overdue in paying physical therapists who treated my son. And I skipped a few months of blood pressure and cholesterol medications just to save money.”
Obama administration officials said several provisions of the new federal health law would help make insurance more affordable.
Insurers must publicly justify large rate increases, and they must spend at least 80 percent of premium revenue on health care. Starting in 2014, each state will have a central market where consumers and small businesses can pool their purchasing power and buy insurance. In theory, the exchange could bring more insurers into the market, increase competition and drive down prices.
In his budget address on Feb. 15, Gov. John Lynch, a Democrat, said hospitals were part of the problem. Instead of using their “excess cash” to reduce health care costs, Mr. Lynch said, “hospitals spend it on advertising, trying to attract market share from each other, buying physician and laboratory practices across the state, and then increasing overhead charges to patients.”
He proposed “a moratorium on the construction of new facilities by hospitals.” Such construction, he said, is “driving up utilization and costs.” But the New Hampshire Hospital Association objected, saying a moratorium would block spending on new medical equipment and health information technology needed to improve care.
Governor Lynch won a fourth two-year term in November. At the same time, control of both houses of the state legislature flipped to Republicans from Democrats, putting into question state efforts to carry out the federal health law, which promises to be a big issue in the stateÂ’s 2012 Republican presidential primary.
Mr. Sevigny, the insurance commissioner, had been poised to award a $610,000 contract for work on a health insurance exchange. But he pulled back the contract, financed entirely with federal money, after Republicans raised questions.
“It would be frivolous to spend taxpayer dollars on implementing a law that could very well be thrown out” by the courts, said William L. O’Brien, speaker of the New Hampshire House of Representatives.
The House Republican leader, D. J. Bettencourt, said, “We don’t want to become addicted to federal money.”
Republicans are trying to block or slow the creation of insurance exchanges in several other states as well. Delays will make it more difficult for states to meet federal deadlines, and Mr. Sevigny said it was important for state officials to understand that the federal government would itself set up an exchange in any state that did not do so.
To some people hammered by rising premiums, the federal law offers a glimmer of hope.
“It’s imperative that we move forward with a plan that spreads the cost of insurance over a large population,” said Mr. La Tourette, the florist. “I’m just thrilled that President Obama was able to get health care passed in any form. We can improve it later. I’m terrified that it will be repealed.”
although they try to twist the truth with leftist conjecture the facts show the rate increases and the coverage declines....
Obamanation
Silver Member
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hmmm, he is the one talking about facts.... if they are so easily verifiable then why aren;t they verified? You just made the case for me... thanks!!!
but here are the facts ----
health care actuary at Aon Hewitt, in a media statement.
Total Plan Premium Costs
Percentage Increase Average Cost per Employee
2013 6.3% $11,188
2012 4.9% $10,522
2011 8.5% $10,034
2010 6.2% $9,246
2009 5.0% $8,703
2008 5.3% $8,290
2007 5.3% $7,874
Source: Aon Hewitt Health Value Initiative database
Keep in mind that this doesn't take into account the undeniable decrease in coverages since the ACA was forced onto Americans...
We are paying more both in dollars and as a percentage for less coverage....
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
accidents are emergencies are they not?....and i was at the Doctor today so i asked him about what can be taken care of at an Urgent Care Center, he said you can be taken care of at an Urgent Care Center for Cancer and most major Illnesses like Diabetes .....my late friend used to go to one where he was at for his Dialysis....he never went to a Hospital.....he went to a clinic.....
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
well when they passed that law saying ER's can not turn you down kinda did that.....that should have said an EMERGENCY.....NON emergencies you go to an Urgent Care Center......
Zona
A guy in ariZONA
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
no.....like i said i was at the Doc today and i decided to ask him what Urgent Care Centers can handle.....he said the Doctors there can monitor your illnesses and prescribe and he said the one he and his partners work at handle people without Ins. all the time.....they have their ways to recoup the money.....and many Drug Companies have programs to get you the drugs you need if you cant pay for them......he told me.....no one is going to let you die if you are sick........
bigrebnc1775
][][][% NC Sheepdog
Here are a few things that are in obamacare that have made insurance cost go up
allowing adults to remain on their parents insurance until age 26, preexisting condition.
ANY QUESTIONS?
allowing adults to remain on their parents insurance until age 26, preexisting condition.
ANY QUESTIONS?
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