Thank you FDR

[LA RAM FAN]

We all know how certain board members have a hilarious hatred against FDR, but let's look at what one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever had did for the people:
Interesting facts about FDR in general: http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/facts/
The List:

- The FDIC
- The CWA
- The NIRA
- Abolishing prohibition.
- The "first 100 days" program to grant relief to tens of millions.
- Created the TVA, continued FERA, don't forget the CCC.
- The NLRA and the AAA.
- Established social security and the SEC.
- Drastically decreased unemployment.
- The good neighbor policy
- He Supported the case for intervention in WWII through the Destroyers for Bases Agreement and Lend-Lease Act supplying ships and armament to the Allied forces.
- Led the US into world war 2 to help crush the fascist dogs.
- Endorsed the creation of the UN.
- The FSA
- He added millions of acres to America's national forests, national parks, and wildlife refuges.
- He was elected four times for a reason
- During FDR's presidency, women were appointed to positions that were unprecedented in terms of both number of appointments as well as rank in the United States government.

What FDR was handed:

By the time that FDR was inaugurated president on March 4, 1933, the banking system had collapsed, nearly 25% of the labor force was unemployed, and prices and productivity had fallen to 1/3 of their 1929 levels. Reduced prices and reduced output resulted in lower incomes in wages, rents, dividends, and profits throughout the economy. Factories were shut down, farms and homes were lost to foreclosure, mills and mines were abandoned, and people went hungry. The resulting lower incomes meant the further inability of the people to spend or to save their way out of the crisis, thus perpetuating the economic slowdown in a seemingly never-ending cycle.

At the height of the Depression in 1933, 24.9% of the total work force or 12,830,000 people was unemployed. Although farmers technically were not counted among the unemployed, drastic drops in farm commodity prices resulted in farmers losing their lands and homes to foreclosure.

The displacement of the American work force and farming communities caused families to split up or to migrate from their homes in search of work. "Hoovervilles," or shantytowns built of packing crates, abandoned cars, and other scraps, sprung up across the nation. Residents of the Great Plains area, where the effects of the Depression were intensified by drought and dust storms, simply abandoned their farms and headed for California in hopes of finding the "land of milk and honey." Gangs of unemployed youth, whose families could no longer support them, rode the rails as hobos in search of work. America 's unemployed citizens were on the move, but there was no place to go that offered relief from the Great Depression.

Various "extras"

AAA , Agricultural Adjustment Administration, 1933

BCLB , Bituminous Coal Labor Board, 1935

CAA , Civil Aeronautics Authority, 1938

CCC , Civilian Conservation Corps, 1933

CCC , Commodity Credit Corporation, 1933

CWA , Civil Works Administration, 1933

FCA , Farm Credit Administration, 1933

FCC , Federal Communications Commission, 1934

FCIC , Federal Crop Insurance Corporation, 1938

FDIC , Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, 1933

FERA , Federal Emergency Relief Agency, 1933

FFMC , Federal Farm Mortgage Corporation, 1934

FHA , Federal Housing Administration, 1934

FLA, Federal Loan Agency, 1939

FSA , Farm Security Administration, 1937

FSA , Federal Security Agency, 1939

FWA , Federal Works Agency, 1939

HOLC , Home Owners Loan Corporation, 1933

MLB , Maritime Labor Board, 1938

NBCC , National Bituminous Coal Commission, 1935

NLB , National Labor Board, 1933

NLRB , National Labor Relations Board, 1935

NRAB , National Railroad Adjustment Board, 1934

NRA , National Recovery Administration, 1933

NRB , National Resources Board, 1934

NRC , National Resources Committee, 1935

NRPB , National Resources Planning Board, 1939

NYA , National Youth Administration, 1935

PWA , Public Works Administration, 1933

RA , Resettlement Administration, 1935

REA , Rural Electrification Administration, 1935

RFC , Reconstruction Finance Corporation, 1932

RRB , Railroad Retirement Board, 1935

SCS , Soil Conservation Service, 1935

SEC , Securities and Exchange Commission, 1934

SSB , Social Security Board, 1935

TNEC, Temporary National Economic Committee, 1938

TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority, 1933

USEP, United States Employment Service, 1933

USHA, United States Housing Authority, 1937

USMC, United States Maritime Commission, 1936

WPA, Works Progress Administration, 1935

WPA, Name changed to Works Projects Administration, 1939

He was without question, the worst president.

Prolonged the Great Depression with naive and harmful economic policies, instigated war with Japan and then lied about it, imprisoned Americans unjustly, ignored precedent by running for 3rd and 4th term on his deathbed, enormous ego even though he was dumb, ignored the Constitution repeatedly, tried to pack the SC, prolonged WWII causing terrible death and destruction with his idiotic unconditional surrender terms, gave half of Europe to his buddy in Moscow, administration full of commie Stalinist spies that he refused to remove...

To think him great, proves you know nothing.

Indeed,the nutcases at USMB who think FDR was such a great president,the same man who was a mass murderer of the americans at pearly harbour purposely allowing the japs to bomb them knowing they would are as nutty as trolls here at USMB who worship Reagan and say he was a great president.

both of them committed treason and were mass murderers of innocent civilians who both betrayed americans.

 

[regent]

The bottom line is what can Republicans do with a president that has been rated by historians, since 1948, as one of the three best American presidents? Well first, Republicans can call the thousand or so, most noted historians that so rated FDR, as commie-pinkos. That takes care of the historians.
Then they can list their usual charges that Republicans have used since FDR was president, as if no one have ever heard of these charges before. Most of these charges were around when the American people elected FDR four times in a row. And even that four times has become a charge. Americans should not be allowed to vote for the president they want.
Social Security was also, at one time, one of those Republican charges, Have Republicans now dropped Social Security as a charge against FDR?

 

[gipper]

The bottom line is what can Republicans do with a president that has been rated by historians, since 1948, as one of the three best American presidents? Well first, Republicans can call the thousand or so, most noted historians that so rated FDR, as commie-pinkos. That takes care of the historians.
Then they can list their usual charges that Republicans have used since FDR was president, as if no one have ever heard of these charges before. Most of these charges were around when the American people elected FDR four times in a row. And even that four times has become a charge. Americans should not be allowed to vote for the president they want.
Social Security was also, at one time, one of those Republican charges, Have Republicans now dropped Social Security as a charge against FDR?

Only those incapable of thinking, continually use appeal to authority to make their point.

 

[regent]

The bottom line is what can Republicans do with a president that has been rated by historians, since 1948, as one of the three best American presidents? Well first, Republicans can call the thousand or so, most noted historians that so rated FDR, as commie-pinkos. That takes care of the historians.
Then they can list their usual charges that Republicans have used since FDR was president, as if no one have ever heard of these charges before. Most of these charges were around when the American people elected FDR four times in a row. And even that four times has become a charge. Americans should not be allowed to vote for the president they want.
Social Security was also, at one time, one of those Republican charges, Have Republicans now dropped Social Security as a charge against FDR?

Only those incapable of thinking, continually use appeal to authority to make their point.

I figure the most noted American historians know more of our history than many posters on these message boards. True, some posters rely on the history they create by thinking about history. It's called think for yourself history.

 

[Unkotare]

Did FDR try to pack the SC. Depends on how you look at it and how deep you look. He used packing the court and the threat of promoting an amendment to force the justices into retirement at age 70. Those threats led to the SCOTUS falling in line behind his policies and ruling in his favor more often instead of constantly challenging his executive authority and encroaching on executive authority to set policy.....

The above post is the absolute epitome of shameless apologist for dictatorial abuse of power. Absolutely fucking shameless.

 

[Unkotare]

... he did it with the full advice and support of the west coast military commanders......

That is a flat-out lie.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

A lot of it was great!!! FDR was a awesome president.

Fuck small idiotic backwards government!

Agreed. Let's return to the days where we can incarcerate thousands of ethnic Japanese Americans in concentration camps and have 25% unemployment for ten years and thousands of homeless migrant camps across the country due to 90% income tax rates. Man, those were the good ole days.

 

[regent]

Did FDR try to pack the SC. Depends on how you look at it and how deep you look. He used packing the court and the threat of promoting an amendment to force the justices into retirement at age 70. Those threats led to the SCOTUS falling in line behind his policies and ruling in his favor more often instead of constantly challenging his executive authority and encroaching on executive authority to set policy.....

The above post is the absolute epitome of shameless apologist for dictatorial abuse of power. Absolutely fucking shameless.

In any case the Court began to see the light and began to find some decisions differently. That's politics in the USA. Maybe there is a similarity to FDR's approach, and the Court's approach in declaring they were supposed to make decisions on laws made by Congress. Who gave the Court that power? If one reads our history they will find all sorts of rivalry between the three branches of government and charges of dictatorial abuse.
In any case FDR may have won the Court battle. Welcome to politics in America.

 

[Unkotare]

Did FDR try to pack the SC. Depends on how you look at it and how deep you look. He used packing the court and the threat of promoting an amendment to force the justices into retirement at age 70. Those threats led to the SCOTUS falling in line behind his policies and ruling in his favor more often instead of constantly challenging his executive authority and encroaching on executive authority to set policy.....

The above post is the absolute epitome of shameless apologist for dictatorial abuse of power. Absolutely fucking shameless.

In any case the Court began to see the light and began to find some decisions differently. ......

Said, more or less, every dictator in history in one way or another.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So to prove "appeal to authority" is wrong, an appeal to authority, the encyclopedia, is used for proof.

That's called a citation, there fella. Points of fact aren't arguments--fallacious or otherwise.

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

 

[Camp]

... he did it with the full advice and support of the west coast military commanders......

That is a flat-out lie.

No it isn't. They may have been racist, particularly Lt. Gen. John DeWitt, but he was the commander in charge of protecting the west coast region of the US and he recommended internment in the strongest terms to Sec. of the Army Henry Stimson, who in turn recommended internment to the President.

history.army.mil/books/70-7_05.htm

 

[gipper]

So to prove "appeal to authority" is wrong, an appeal to authority, the encyclopedia, is used for proof.

That's called a citation, there fella. Points of fact aren't arguments--fallacious or otherwise.

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18%!!! When America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

 

[Camp]

That's called a citation, there fella. Points of fact aren't arguments--fallacious or otherwise.

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

 

[CrusaderFrank]

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

FDR had to thank Hitler for starting WWII, that was what saved the US economy from 12 years of 20% Unemployment

 

[gipper]

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

Whatever...
Nor does spending government money revive growth, despite the theories put into practice by the then-dean of all economists, John Maynard Keynes. Any objective analysis of these facts can lead to no other conclusion. U.S. unemployment averaged a rate of 18 percent during Roosevelt’s first eight years in office. In the decade of the 1930s, U.S. industrial production and national income fell by about almost one-third. In 1940, after year eight years of the New Deal, unemployment was still averaged a god-awful 14 percent.
The Enduring Myth of FDR and the New Deal

 

[Camp]

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

FDR had to thank Hitler for starting WWII, that was what saved the US economy from 12 years of 20% Unemployment

Frank, I am posting impeccable sources that are not only accurate, but objective. They are academic in nature. The link I posted directly preceding your post gives unemployment figures for every year of the FDR administration. The sources I provide dispute your claim. I give links and you give nonsense talking point propaganda that you have no way of substantiating. I provide proof that by 1940 FDR had brought the unemployment figure down to 9.5% and you make a fraudulent claim it was at 20%. You are not a serious debater sir, not unless you can show some kind of evidence to back up your nonsense.

 

[gipper]

OK evidence. When the knit picking starts, the misspelled words, the punctuation, the name calling, or a change of subject becomes the mode it's pretty much over.

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

Where are you getting 9.5% in 1940?

 

[Camp]

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

Whatever...
Nor does spending government money revive growth, despite the theories put into practice by the then-dean of all economists, John Maynard Keynes. Any objective analysis of these facts can lead to no other conclusion. U.S. unemployment averaged a rate of 18 percent during Roosevelt’s first eight years in office. In the decade of the 1930s, U.S. industrial production and national income fell by about almost one-third. In 1940, after year eight years of the New Deal, unemployment was still averaged a god-awful 14 percent.
The Enduring Myth of FDR and the New Deal

Keynes is using a method of calculating that calculated the workers on government projects as unemployed even though they collected pay checks and had jobs. His purpose for calculating was to ascertain the number of person who were unable to find employment in private industry and thus, absent from the private industry work force. It was designed to answer the question of "what if the government project jobs were not available". Those figures have always been misused to indicate the overall unemployment numbers. The problem is that those people in government project jobs were in fact working and employed.
I provided a great link that explains all of this. If you want to ignore it and stay ignorant there is nothing I can do other than provide the data for those who might want to understand the controversy.

 

[Camp]

Dispute these FACTS:

1. FDR imprisoned Japanese Americans without trial. Many lost their livelihoods and property. He did not imprison German or Japanese Americans. So, he is not only a lawless POTUS, but a racist.
2. FDR tried to pack the SC so that he could do whatever he wanted. That makes him a tyrant.
3. His unconditional surrender requirement of Germany and Japan lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. That makes him a murderous fool.
4. FDR was warned several times of commie spies within his administration. He did nothing. That makes him a dumb ass fool.
5. He ignored Washington's rule of no more than two terms for the POTUS. Running for a third and fourth term, even though he was terribly unhealthy. That makes him an egotistical fool.
6. He did all he could to get Japan to strike first by refusing to negotiate with them and imposing sanctions on them. He knew they were going to strike, because we had broken their code prior to Pearl Harbor. He did not warn the commanders and then scapegoated them. That makes him a traitor.
7. His absurd economic programs of scarcity lead to the destruction of livestock and crops, all while many Americans were starving during the Great Depression. Fool again.

Do you find these actions by a POTUS, admirable?

Now try to use your OWN brain to answer that question, and not those of statist historians.

Are suggesting we simply use our own brain or opinions to create history, and after creating our own history we then create the reasons for the actions of the people involved, and then go a step further and label the actions as treason or other. Is this what historians do?

What was average unemployment rate over FDR first 2 terms?

One would think any American who researches FDR would conclude that an average unemployment rate (when it was much more accurate than the fallacious U3 rate used today) of 18% over his first eight years in office, is a complete failure.

18% over eight years when America was the leading manufacturing nation, could only be accomplished by complete and utter incompetence. Yet, millions of Americans think FDR was great for the economy...all thanks to statist historians making shit up.

Where do you get these unemployment figures? I know of no source that backs up your claim. The sources I refer to show an almost 25% or 21% figures, depending on the method used to calculate, in 1933 when FDR took office with a continuing decline until the short recession of '38. By 1940 the number was down to 9.5%.

Here is one of the sources I use for unemployment figures. On the third page into the link there is a chart that shows both methods of calculating unemployment figures. I prefer the Darby method because that method includes people working in the WPA, CCC, etc. as being employed. The Lebergott method counts them as unemployed because the jobs they worked at were government financed and not privately funded. I like this source because it explains in detail how these different methods are used. In any case, the source I am providing shows both methods of calculating side by side for comparison. Can't get fairer than that. What source are you using?

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

Where are you getting 9.5% in 1940?

Go to the fraser.stlouisfed.org site I posted. It is a page by page copy of a chapter in a book. Scroll down three pages, I think the page number is 43. There is a chart there that list year by year figures for the two most popular methods of calculating unemployment during that era. The differences are explained in the first two pages of the chapter.

Here you go. I will make it easy.

fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/maremp93.pdf

 

[gipper]

Unemployment in 1940 was still over 14%. By 1941, it lowered to under 10% thanks to FDR putting the nation on a war footing, while proclaiming over and over again in the 1940 election campaign that no American boys would fight overseas...just another one of his many lies.